OMG,OMG,OMG!! THE BIG THREAD FOR PEOPLE WHO HATE 1.2!!!!

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If u don't like the game don't play it. Its simple...u don't have to go around complaining..Personally I like the game how it is...for those who say "N00bs have the advantage"....reality check...their noobs...u have the advantage....one more thing to doge beams....*cough* Swoop *cough*.
If u can't...ur the noob...NOW DON'T FLAME ME JUST PROVE ME WRONG!
 
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I will format my post as if I am speaking on behalf of the "1.2 Haters". . .
If u don't like the game don't play it.
We have the right to play it, and we have the right to voice our opinions, either bad or good.

Personally I like the game how it is
Good for you, glad to hear it. As usual, some people (more than you realize) do not, and they would like it changed, for what they think is the greater good.

"N00bs have the advantage"....reality check...their noobs...u have the advantage
I agree with you on this one to be honest. . .

one more thing to doge beams....*cough* Swoop *cough*.
Not if you don't want to loose half your HP to splash damage you won't. Swooping may be pretty easy to start, but its never going to be fast enough to dodge a beam at full power. Not only that, but with the teleport delays, if you don't notice the beam fast enough, you still won't get out of the way in time.

If u can't...ur the noob
Not if the person on the other side of the beam isn't.
 
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I'm starting to dislike 1.2 alot more now. Especially simple melee u cant do anything once u get comboed because of the *** whoever swoops first wins, but then certain people like to Run and wait for u to lose ki, and when u lose ki your done for. I personally liked the whoever had the most ki wins a hell alot better.
 
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Rofl,

ahwell i don't like 1.2 system really... never liked the 1.1 system either :eek: doesn't that give me the right to play?

Well i play the game because it's differend... i can always play FPS, but this mod is 'special' thus fun to play...

I'm not to bad at this game and encounter lot's of noobs, and yes who is butchered? me .. verbaly most... they can't take it they lose. It takes away the joy of playing.

Now most games 'require' some sort of skill, that was in esf 1.1 too, fast reactions, good swoop hand... guess what? most of that is lost, there is still some skill required but most things are too easy to pull off. and the head ons are just a laughter... that doesn't require any skill anymore.. 'luck'is what owns the game...

'luck owns the game' - thats what is ruining it.
 
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I have to agree that luck is conquering advanced melee... the only truly effective strategy is to use all hard attacks in the hopes of getting some random arrows. How about you guys actually suggest something different then though?
 
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Sonic Boyster said:
I have to agree that luck is conquering advanced melee... the only truly effective strategy is to use all hard attacks in the hopes of getting some random arrows. How about you guys actually suggest something different then though?
Have a roleback version to 1.1?
nah serious Advanced melee is in his baby clothes... Joe is still working on it for 1.3, or atleast so i read somewhere if i remember correct. But those head-ons... with both adv melee sellect are just [swearfilterhereplease]. But I don't know what to put there... maybe a sort of powerstrugle? who ever put's most force in it wins it and pushes the other player back (not much damage). - instead of hopefully pressing the correct buttons.
 
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To be honest, I can't suggest something better. If I knew a better system, I would suggest it. All I know, (as a player) is that the current system has too much luck involved, therefore making it flawed.

First off, get rid of the melee struggles, or at least fix it. Remove the luck aspect, and make it require a skill of some sort. Maybe increase the time the arrows come across the screen, or remove the arrow bit altogether and put in something like a power struggle.

Next, I think doing the 'simple melee' should be tweaked as well. Its too easy to like nail someone 4-5 times in a row by teleporting, and that is alot more frustrating than a throw or a combo, by far.
 

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1.1 was my favorite game ever, and I believe the best game ever made (despite the fact it's a mod). So with this is mind, of course I had high hopes for 1.2. I thought 1.2 would be the best thing ever and easily top 1.1. Wow was I wrong. I -hate- 1.2. But unlike most people who come into the forums and say they hate 1.2, ill actually explain why I hate it.

Reason 1: Targeting is gone. On paper, this may seem like a big improvement, but when you get into the game, you realize it isn’t. The reason being for this is quite simple. You can’t tell who your enemy is anymore. This leads to double teaming.

Reason 2: Double teaming. Like I said in reason 1, double teaming is a lot more common in 1.2. It may seem like it’s the players fault and not the system for double teaming, but in reality it’s the systems fault. The only two ways to tell who you’re opponent is is either by their player model which isn’t reliable or by using mixed mode on the radar. So you’re pretty much forced to use mixed mode (which I hate using because you can’t tell where your opponent is half of the time),

Reason 3: The teleport delay. The teleport delay is great to stop scripters, but it gets annoying and slows down the game. I would rather have scripters than have this delay. Something that could improve upon the delay though, would be this idea I suggested http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=42792. People seemed not to agree with it though =/....

Reason 4: Double tap swooping. It’s not as responsive as 1.1. Granted you can now swoop in all directions, but I rarely use this in game.

Reason 5: Slowed down swooping speeds. I believe this was done so the transformation speeds wouldn’t be ridiculously fast, but it’s slowed down so much that it severely takes away from the game play factor.

Reason 6: Old maps gone. I know that some of the maps from 1.1 got deleted (or something along those lines), but I also know that the map esf_cell_day/night was not deleted and replaced by the new map esf_cell_games. Cell day should have been left in.

Reason 7: The tactic where people prepunch you 11 times, than throw you. Regarding this thread http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=42789, wow you can block throws. That’s great! Too bad it doesn’t come in handy after you’ve been hit with prepunches and the only way it would work would be to stand still and block whore. Wow, what fun!

Reason 8: Stopping to charge combos. It makes the fight seem slower and also makes the fight not fun to watch. Their has to be a better way to do combos than stopping the fight, maybe charging them up while prepunching?

Reason 9: The prepunch. I think this was put in as a way for people with no skill to get damage. Nice idea esf team (that was sarcastic for all you stupid people :p).

Reason 10: The combo system in general. I hate the game dance dance revolution which is pretty much what the combo system is. In 1.1, you had to catch your opponent off guard to get a hit. The combo system takes the fun out of that since the only advantage you get hitting first is prepunching. Someone please prove me wrong on this one. Also, combos are way too easy to dodge.

Reason 11: RANDOM ARROWS. GOD HOW I HATE THESE RANDOM ARROWS. It takes away almost all the skill in the game. How are you suppose to improve at guessing random arrows. Simple, you’re not.


Reason 12: The throw system in general. It takes way too long to preform a throw. Also, it requires no skill to do. Even less skill than combos. Throws are being tweaked to take less time to perform in 1.2 and more ki to perform, but they still will require no skill.

Reason 13: Combos are too easy to dodge. Pretty much self explanitory. The only way a “skilled” person would get hit would be by random arrows.

Reason 14: No way of blocking throws after prepunches are initated. I don’t know if this belongs under reason 12, but whatever.

Reason 15: Beam explosions are smaller. The blast radius may be the same as in 1.1, but the explosions are smaller. Its kind of weird to get hit by a beam that doesn’t explode anywhere near you.

Reason 16: You can now hit someone with simple melee, then teleport one more time and hit them again. You could do this in 1.1, but it was a nice feature in 1.1 It required a lot more skill and needed 3 teleports to do rather then 1. I’m not sure if this was intentional, but it should be taken out. Maybe make the speed you get knocked back increased.

Reason 17: You no longer free fall when you throw a beam. This was done because it was being abused in 1.1, but it takes away from the speed of the game imo. For instance, you want to get away from an enemy, you decide you want to beam jump. You fire a beam at the ground, but instead of freefalling, you stay in fly mode and get hit.

Reason 18: You can’t do more then 2 simple melee combos. This is self explanitory.

Reason 19: The teleport after images. I like them, I just wish they would last a little longer.

Reason 20: Uh.... 1.2 is bad :p (Im just putting this one for the sake of it being 20 :))

I just want to say that I had a lan party yesterday with a bunch of my friends. After playing 1.2 for a couple of weeks, I was forgeting how much fun 1.1 was so one of the games we played was 1.1. After playing 1.1 again, I see 1.2 is a huge step up in the graphics department, but a huge step down in the gameplay department. And to Sonic, later on ill post a thread of how I would have liked melee to be in 1.2. (wow, this was a long ass post :p)
 
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im confused.... i mean, i think 1.2 is great, interesting fights, all the new cool stuff, but people are *****ing and moaning because the way they used to play 1.1 cant be done in 1.2, now, forgive me if im wrong, but didnt the same exact thing happen when 1.1 was released? evry1 was saying the 1.0 melee was better, and do u know why? because they were so damn used to it, and they knew how to play it better, all i see is that people are just scared of change.

So what if advanced melee is too easy, why are you complaining? surely if its that easy then you must never loose, if ur in an advanced melee fight and u think its gettin boring, then do something else u know, nobody is forcing you to press that primary fire button, you're not confined to anything, unlike the previous system where all people did was combos you couldnt resist, much like the throws now, and the previous system was just hetic, u spent most of the time trying to teleport and gather ki. Im glad that these dinosaurs have died, they had their day, but now i want to be able to fight people and let them have input into the fight, a wanna give them a chance because all they were in 1.1 were punchbags, being kicked around the map not having a chance in the fight, unless they teleport like a headless chicken.

Advanced melee is a good thing, just needs a little tweaking, its pretty simple, and the same with the simple melee
 
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Wee, a long ass post to respond to. What fun :)

Targeting is gone. On paper, this may seem like a big improvement, but when you get into the game, you realize it isn’t. The reason being for this is quite simple. You can’t tell who your enemy is anymore. This leads to double teaming.
I hated targeting, but I agree it did give you something to go after, and stopped 'double teaming' to an extend. Then again, whats wrong with double teaming? If someone is so "skilled" as yourself, you shouldn't get hit with anything unless its a random arrow right?

Reason 2: Double teaming. Like I said in reason 1, double teaming is a lot more common in 1.2. It may seem like it’s the players fault and not the system for double teaming, but in reality it’s the systems fault. The only two ways to tell who you’re opponent is is either by their player model which isn’t reliable or by using mixed mode on the radar. So you’re pretty much forced to use mixed mode (which I hate using because you can’t tell where your opponent is half of the time),
Refer to my reply on Reason One. I again agree that it is too hard to realize who your 'opponent' is. Maybe they shoud put targeting back in, just so people can see who their enemy is, but have no effect on the new swoop. (I.e you dont have to lock on if you dont want to)

Reason 3: The teleport delay. The teleport delay is great to stop scripters, but it gets annoying and slows down the game. I would rather have scripters than have this delay. Something that could improve upon the delay though, would be this idea I suggested http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=42792. People seemed not to agree with it though =/....
I agree with you 100%. The delay was a quick fix, and it ruined part of the speed. It takes too long to get out of the way. Maybe have it so you can do 3-4 quick teleports, then stop them or something. I dont know, but not after each one, people need to have a fast get away from beam spammers.

Reason 4: Double tap swooping. It’s not as responsive as 1.1. Granted you can now swoop in all directions, but I rarely use this in game.
I love the double tap. Granted it takes a bit longer to start, I love it overall. Chain-swooping is just great, I love it. It removed that evil aspect from 1.1 where people swooped around for 15 minutes before hitting eachother.

Reason 5: Slowed down swooping speeds. I believe this was done so the transformation speeds wouldn’t be ridiculously fast, but it’s slowed down so much that it severely takes away from the game play factor.
Agreed again. The swoop speed should be put back to at least 75% of its origonal speed, if not 100%.

Reason 7: The tactic where people prepunch you 11 times, than throw you. Regarding this thread http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=42789, wow you can block throws. That’s great! Too bad it doesn’t come in handy after you’ve been hit with prepunches and the only way it would work would be to stand still and block whore. Wow, what fun!
Boo Hoo. Thats just like saying people that prepunch 6 times to combo instead of 5. All there doing is trying to get the best out of the attack. Why stop at 6 if you can do 11? Resist against throws to kill their KI, although I think it should be more balanced out. Give people more of a chance to defend after the throw starts, other than sucking the KI out of the thrower. As for blocking prepunches, its just like blocking in 1.1. You don't have to stand still to block.

Reason 8: Stopping to charge combos. It makes the fight seem slower and also makes the fight not fun to watch. Their has to be a better way to do combos than stopping the fight, maybe charging them up while prepunching?
I don't mind this too much. It wouldnt be possible to charge during prepunches, since the amount determines the combo time in the first place.

Reason 9: The prepunch. I think this was put in as a way for people with no skill to get damage. Nice idea esf team (that was sarcastic for all you stupid people :p).
I think it was used as a decent way to begin the advanced melee process, so they could change the amount of time people to make combos. Could just be me though.

Reason 10: The combo system in general. I hate the game dance dance revolution which is pretty much what the combo system is. In 1.1, you had to catch your opponent off guard to get a hit. The combo system takes the fun out of that since the only advantage you get hitting first is prepunching. Someone please prove me wrong on this one. Also, combos are way too easy to dodge.
Some people prefer to be able to fight in 5 minutes rather than 20 like in 1.1. If you get going with someone in beta 1.1, it takes forever just to land a hit. At least in 1.2 if you get going with someone, your still going to cause some damage. There are more advantages to hitting first as well. Prepunching is one, getting to choose (combo / throw) is one, determing combo time is one, getting the longest combo time is one, causing damage to your opponent without giving them a chance to fight back (throwing) is one. I can't think of any others right now, but I know thats more than one, :). Combos are too easy to dodge, and if anyone says "Just make it easier to get a multi-arrow", i'll break your nose.

Reason 11: RANDOM ARROWS. GOD HOW I HATE THESE RANDOM ARROWS. It takes away almost all the skill in the game. How are you suppose to improve at guessing random arrows. Simple, you’re not.
Another point I agree with, 100%. IMO: Whoever thought of Random Arrows should be taken out and shot (* Yes, that is a joke, I do not mean that literally. If you think I do, you really should be taken out and shot. *)

Reason 12: The throw system in general. It takes way too long to preform a throw. Also, it requires no skill to do. Even less skill than combos. Throws are being tweaked to take less time to perform in 1.2 and more ki to perform, but they still will require no skill.
Tweaked in 1.2.1 patch, for better or worse, I cannot say.

Reason 13: Combos are too easy to dodge. Pretty much self explanitory. The only way a “skilled” person would get hit would be by random arrows.
Agreed. Too easy to dodge, although this was another one of your previous points o_o

Reason 14: No way of blocking throws after prepunches are initated. I don’t know if this belongs under reason 12, but whatever.
Agreed again. I think it should be more like a power stuggle, but thats just me.

Reason 15: Beam explosions are smaller. The blast radius may be the same as in 1.1, but the explosions are smaller. Its kind of weird to get hit by a beam that doesn’t explode anywhere near you.
Agreed again. I cant stand the new ones. It blows up, and the smoke dosn't even hit me, yet I take damage. . .

Reason 16: You can now hit someone with simple melee, then teleport one more time and hit them again. You could do this in 1.1, but it was a nice feature in 1.1 It required a lot more skill and needed 3 teleports to do rather then 1. I’m not sure if this was intentional, but it should be taken out. Maybe make the speed you get knocked back increased.
Once again, agreed. I believe it should be removed as well, its way too easy to 'simple melee' someone using teleports.

Reason 17: You no longer free fall when you throw a beam. This was done because it was being abused in 1.1, but it takes away from the speed of the game imo. For instance, you want to get away from an enemy, you decide you want to beam jump. You fire a beam at the ground, but instead of freefalling, you stay in fly mode and get hit.
I hate this too. You basically said it all on this one. You should still freefall! I want mah freefall!!!

Reason 18: You can’t do more then 2 simple melee combos. This is self explanitory.

Reason 19: The teleport after images. I like them, I just wish they would last a little longer.
18: There adding more 'special' combos aren't they? Or do you mean something else?
19: No, they shouldn't. If they lasted longer, it would be too easy to "fool" your opponent.

Whew, been awhile since I'v done a big ass post like that one. Wee . . .
 
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I disagree that pre punching takes "no skill" (compared to 1.1 melee). It's all about getting the hit, although most people seem to constantly swoop directly at you...making them easy game, really.

I agree on the combo thing. I only use one weak attack at the end of 11 prepunches now, and rely on the prepunching to do the damage. If I don't have enough ki, I just do the 1.1 melee-teleport-1.1 melee-generic ball thing, which takes up a small amount considering. (Unfortunately, this feels more like an exploit than anything. I'm hoping it gets taken out...but I can't stop myself using it, sometimes.)

I don't think that 1.1 is better, but I agree with the people on this thread that luck isn't the best basis for combat. I'll reserve judgement until the 1.2.1 patch, though.
 

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heh. This is going to be another long post for me. I was going to reply to davidskiwans post too, but I accidentally deleted what I was going to say so I don't feel like typing it over. Anyways...

Wee, a long ass post to respond to. What fun
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Targeting is gone. On paper, this may seem like a big improvement, but when you get into the game, you realize it isn’t. The reason being for this is quite simple. You can’t tell who your enemy is anymore. This leads to double teaming.

I hated targeting, but I agree it did give you something to go after, and stopped 'double teaming' to an extend. Then again, whats wrong with double teaming? If someone is so "skilled" as yourself, you shouldn't get hit with anything unless its a random arrow right?
I would have no problem with double teaming except for the fact that people steal your kills. You can't do anything about it either because there invulnerable to anything while in melee.

Quote:
Reason 2: Double teaming. Like I said in reason 1, double teaming is a lot more common in 1.2. It may seem like it’s the players fault and not the system for double teaming, but in reality it’s the systems fault. The only two ways to tell who you’re opponent is is either by their player model which isn’t reliable or by using mixed mode on the radar. So you’re pretty much forced to use mixed mode (which I hate using because you can’t tell where your opponent is half of the time),

Refer to my reply on Reason One. I again agree that it is too hard to realize who your 'opponent' is. Maybe they shoud put targeting back in, just so people can see who their enemy is, but have no effect on the new swoop. (I.e you dont have to lock on if you dont want to)
Yeah, that would be a good idea. There could be another button that would target.

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Reason 3: The teleport delay. The teleport delay is great to stop scripters, but it gets annoying and slows down the game. I would rather have scripters than have this delay. Something that could improve upon the delay though, would be this idea I suggested http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=42792. People seemed not to agree with it though =/....

I agree with you 100%. The delay was a quick fix, and it ruined part of the speed. It takes too long to get out of the way. Maybe have it so you can do 3-4 quick teleports, then stop them or something. I dont know, but not after each one, people need to have a fast get away from beam spammers.
Well, that wouldn't really work. In 1.1, most teleport scripts had 2 teleports binded to one button.

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Reason 4: Double tap swooping. It’s not as responsive as 1.1. Granted you can now swoop in all directions, but I rarely use this in game.

I love the double tap. Granted it takes a bit longer to start, I love it overall. Chain-swooping is just great, I love it. It removed that evil aspect from 1.1 where people swooped around for 15 minutes before hitting eachother.
Hmm. the swooping in different directions is a pretty good idea, the only thing I don't like about the new swoop is that you can't start it up as quickly. I suppose a solution to this would be a seperate swoop button. It would respond quicker then double tapping a button and to change direction in mid flight, you could press a direction once.



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Reason 5: Slowed down swooping speeds. I believe this was done so the transformation speeds wouldn’t be ridiculously fast, but it’s slowed down so much that it severely takes away from the game play factor.



Agreed again. The swoop speed should be put back to at least 75% of its origonal speed, if not 100%.
75% would be ok I suppose. Theres not anything else for me to say on this one since you agreed.


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Reason 7: The tactic where people prepunch you 11 times, than throw you. Regarding this thread http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=42789, wow you can block throws. That’s great! Too bad it doesn’t come in handy after you’ve been hit with prepunches and the only way it would work would be to stand still and block whore. Wow, what fun!

Boo Hoo. Thats just like saying people that prepunch 6 times to combo instead of 5. All there doing is trying to get the best out of the attack. Why stop at 6 if you can do 11? Resist against throws to kill their KI, although I think it should be more balanced out. Give people more of a chance to defend after the throw starts, other than sucking the KI out of the thrower.
It's a cheap tactic. It's just pure annoying to have to wait through all 11 prepunches, then sit through a block. And like you said, theres nothing you can do against this but hope for the guys ki to run out. Atleast with 1.1 howing you could get around it by using skill.

As for blocking prepunches, its just like blocking in 1.1. You don't have to stand still to block.
I don't know what you mean when you say you don't have to stand still. You're immobile while blocking.

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Reason 8: Stopping to charge combos. It makes the fight seem slower and also makes the fight not fun to watch. Their has to be a better way to do combos than stopping the fight, maybe charging them up while prepunching?

I don't mind this too much. It wouldnt be possible to charge during prepunches, since the amount determines the combo time in the first place.
Eh, nothing for me to say.

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Reason 9: The prepunch. I think this was put in as a way for people with no skill to get damage. Nice idea esf team (that was sarcastic for all you stupid people :p).

I think it was used as a decent way to begin the advanced melee process, so they could change the amount of time people to make combos. Could just be me though.
Maybe it was both. Regardless, I think it should be taken out. There are tons of possibilities to determine the amount of time people make combos.

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Reason 10: The combo system in general. I hate the game dance dance revolution which is pretty much what the combo system is. In 1.1, you had to catch your opponent off guard to get a hit. The combo system takes the fun out of that since the only advantage you get hitting first is prepunching. Someone please prove me wrong on this one. Also, combos are way too easy to dodge.

Some people prefer to be able to fight in 5 minutes rather than 20 like in 1.1. If you get going with someone in beta 1.1, it takes forever just to land a hit. At least in 1.2 if you get going with someone, your still going to cause some damage. There are more advantages to hitting first as well. Prepunching is one, getting to choose (combo / throw) is one, determing combo time is one, getting the longest combo time is one, causing damage to your opponent without giving them a chance to fight back (throwing) is one. I can't think of any others right now, but I know thats more than one, . Combos are too easy to dodge, and if anyone says "Just make it easier to get a multi-arrow", i'll break your nose.
It's not that it goes on and on. I mean sure the combos are easy to dodge, but even if they weren't I would still hate the system. It seems to me the system was made to make the fights look cool, but they failed on this because of the time you stop while charging combos.

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Reason 11: RANDOM ARROWS. GOD HOW I HATE THESE RANDOM ARROWS. It takes away almost all the skill in the game. How are you suppose to improve at guessing random arrows. Simple, you’re not.

Another point I agree with, 100%. IMO: Whoever thought of Random Arrows should be taken out and shot (* Yes, that is a joke, I do not mean that literally. If you think I do, you really should be taken out and shot. *)
Nothing for me to say.


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Reason 12: The throw system in general. It takes way too long to preform a throw. Also, it requires no skill to do. Even less skill than combos. Throws are being tweaked to take less time to perform in 1.2 and more ki to perform, but they still will require no skill.

Tweaked in 1.2.1 patch, for better or worse, I cannot say.
The tweaking done will be for the better I believe, but the throw will still requre no skill.

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Reason 13: Combos are too easy to dodge. Pretty much self explanitory. The only way a “skilled” person would get hit would be by random arrows.

Agreed. Too easy to dodge, although this was another one of your previous points
Yeah, sorry about that I didn't realize it when I was wrighting it.

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Reason 14: No way of blocking throws after prepunches are initated. I don’t know if this belongs under reason 12, but whatever.

Agreed again. I think it should be more like a power stuggle, but thats just me.
I don't want it like a powerstruggle. The only thing you do in a powerstruggle is hold mouse1. Powerstruggles do have some skill though, you have to figure out how much ki you need and how long to charge up the beam, when to fire the beam, ect.

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Reason 15: Beam explosions are smaller. The blast radius may be the same as in 1.1, but the explosions are smaller. Its kind of weird to get hit by a beam that doesn’t explode anywhere near you.

Agreed again. I cant stand the new ones. It blows up, and the smoke dosn't even hit me, yet I take damage. . .
Again, nothing for me to say since you agreed..

Quote:
Reason 16: You can now hit someone with simple melee, then teleport one more time and hit them again. You could do this in 1.1, but it was a nice feature in 1.1 It required a lot more skill and needed 3 teleports to do rather then 1. I’m not sure if this was intentional, but it should be taken out. Maybe make the speed you get knocked back increased.

Once again, agreed. I believe it should be removed as well, its way too easy to 'simple melee' someone using teleports.
Again, nothing for me to say since you agreed..


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Reason 17: You no longer free fall when you throw a beam. This was done because it was being abused in 1.1, but it takes away from the speed of the game imo. For instance, you want to get away from an enemy, you decide you want to beam jump. You fire a beam at the ground, but instead of freefalling, you stay in fly mode and get hit.

I hate this too. You basically said it all on this one. You should still freefall! I want mah freefall!!!
Yeah... I should just stop replying to the ones you agree with..... :scared:

Quote:
Reason 18: You can’t do more then 2 simple melee combos. This is self explanitory.

Reason 19: The teleport after images. I like them, I just wish they would last a little longer.

18: There adding more 'special' combos aren't they? Or do you mean something else?
19: No, they shouldn't. If they lasted longer, it would be too easy to "fool" your opponent.
18: Thats not what I ment. I mean the type of combos in 1.1. You can no longer do any combos higher then 2 hit combos.

19: I don't mean too long, im just saying long enough to fool your opponent. As it is right now, people don't get fooled by it.

Sorry for messing the quote tags up, I couldn't figure out how to do a quote inside a quote.
 
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I know everyone says that ESF is a 'beta' mod and that nothing is ever official, but certain things need to be left alone. The 1.1 melee system was a WORKING system and it was around for 2 releases. For a year and a half -- myself and most of the vets have played with the 1.0/1.1 melee system. I think the new beta was presented with too much, too soon. My "suggestion" for this thread is that 1.2 should have done the double-tap swoop and the adv. combo system on seperate releases. Maybe had 1.2 use the lock-on simple melee system with double-tap swoop instead of the mouse 1 tap to initiate swoop. Then the ESF team could let a year go by while everyone adjusts to using the double-tap swoop for the 1.2 release. Then when 1.3 comes out, have that with the new adv. melee system so that the double-tap swoop that we played with for a year would be easier to handle with the new combo system. I just think for alot of us vets, it was a big step in the opposite direction from 1.1 to learn 1.2. My esf clan had been around since 1.0 and alot of us feel the same way.

Imagine CS going from toting guns to using martial arts only. Perhaps a bad reference to what 1.1 -> 1.2 was, but its still apples and oranges. Gradual change is always better than a full-blown make-over when you are considering a community of people who have known only one sytem of playing.
 
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davidskiwan said:
im confused.... i mean, i think 1.2 is great, interesting fights, all the new cool stuff, but people are *****ing and moaning because the way they used to play 1.1 cant be done in 1.2, now, forgive me if im wrong, but didnt the same exact thing happen when 1.1 was released? evry1 was saying the 1.0 melee was better, and do u know why? because they were so damn used to it, and they knew how to play it better, all i see is that people are just scared of change.

So what if advanced melee is too easy, why are you complaining? surely if its that easy then you must never loose, if ur in an advanced melee fight and u think its gettin boring, then do something else u know, nobody is forcing you to press that primary fire button, you're not confined to anything, unlike the previous system where all people did was combos you couldnt resist, much like the throws now, and the previous system was just hetic, u spent most of the time trying to teleport and gather ki. Im glad that these dinosaurs have died, they had their day, but now i want to be able to fight people and let them have input into the fight, a wanna give them a chance because all they were in 1.1 were punchbags, being kicked around the map not having a chance in the fight, unless they teleport like a headless chicken.

Advanced melee is a good thing, just needs a little tweaking, its pretty simple, and the same with the simple melee
trust me...the reason y ppl complained about 1.1 over 1.0 was because of the ki system...thats only one thing wrong with the whole game...as proven in the other posts in this thread there are far more than just a ki system thats getting on ppls nerves with this version...honestly how can u say that the reason y is because we dont like change?...the only thing that changed from 1.0-1.1 as far as melee goes was the ki system..and like i said in my other thread in the suggestion forum...if u guys say "well if u dont like adv melee so much then just use simple"...well the problem with that is...what was the point in even putting an adv system in if u arent gonna use it...AND...there have been just as many threads made by ppl that complain about simple melee as there are made by ppl that dont like adv...and as for ppl complaining about the fights taking too long to do in 1.1...what u think is happenin in 1.2??...half the time with adv melee u cant land a hit unless its a random arrow thing...that takes FAR longer than any fight i ever had in 1.1

but basically everything that has been said in this thread i agree with 100%...the game has been slowed down and based on luck now instead of skill and practice...and thats not a way to go when doin a game like esf...
 
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I also don't like people who are hiding behind the statement, "well the ESF team has put in countless time on this project so we should appreciate it for what it is and accept that its good because so much time has been put into it".

Just because alot of time was invested into this project doesn't mean it will satisfy its community. ESF was already something like #5 most played HL mod in the world with 1.1, so OBVIOUSLY it was a great game. Small improvements would be all it needs to ensure it continues its success.
 
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i dont understand what ur saying >_<, i can tell perfectly well when im fighting a skilled player and when im fighting a noob. Personally, (now i'll probably get flamed) i thought the old melee system sucked, there i said it, i didnt like it, it got very very boring, as it was always the same, either you won triumphantly.... or u lost pathetically, allowing little input and control over the whole thing, and most of all, for a dbz mod, it wasnt exactly much like dbz at all. Thats another thing people have forgotten, its ment to be like dbz hence why there's all the other dbz stuff in the mod. I love the new system, if they got rid of it i would stop playing, cuz after a few weeks of 1.0 and 1.1 i got pretty bored, but now i can still enjoy as much as the first time 1.2 and its like a breath of fresh air giving people a chance to use tatics much more effectively.

I agree with 1 thing, that random arrows shouldnt be allowed, but untill its sped up (the patch) it makes it a little easier to get sum punches in. but hey, i know that by playing 1.2 i've enjoyed a lot more fights, i've also developed new tactics and skills. I dont care what u say, u put a skilled 1.2 player against a lesser skilled player, you know who will win, by what ur saying ur blaming the whole thing on luck which just isnt true. I know myself that ive improved, and ive noticed that other players ive fought have improved too.
 
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but the only things u can improve upon in this version are learning the 2 combos that EVERY character has...or learning to chain swoop...which arent very hard things to do at all...in 1.1/1.0 u had to worry about ki management..teleport placement...swoop length...hit direction to get a combo going...and all that while moving faster than your brain can think...to me thats more intelectually stimulating then sitting back and pushing arrows...if i wanted to do that i would play ddr...not a game based on fighting..the point to all this is the fact that there is a limit to how much u can improve...and a limit to what u can do because of the fact that there are only a limited amount of things u can do to even attempt to land hits...in 1.1 the combos were WAY more creative...and there were more acctual "styles" of fighting..instead of pushing a few buttons and getting predetermined animations...
 
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Yes, it tends to get boring, and the melee system does get on my nerves sometimes...but I don't technaclly hate the game.
 
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i think the new melle is fun, and it's easy to tell who's pro(if they pwn me :() and who's noob(if i pwn them :D) but i didn't really like the 1.1 melle either, it was a toned down 1.0, 1.0's melle kiked a$$ :) i think the team should do something like fuse 1.0 and 1.2s melle togather, sorta like now, but make a person think, "should i use advaned or basic melle?"

PS: since the maps are bigger, i wana see whats the hype bout alpha beems, put em in 1.3 :)
 

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