Take THAT Music Industry!

[Kurt`]

Bittorrent sucks for music!

My 7,000 mp3s disagree with you.

 

[Jesus]

hahahaha devion, you make me laugh. you know i used to live in holland right?

you ARE stealing, and in fact your crime is worse, because not only are you taking a file, which you have no rights to. but you are also aiding and abbetting (sp?) a known fellon by taking his illegally broadcasted file.

and that IS dutch law...

you really should look things up properly man hahaha

 

[SailorAlea]

My 7,000 mp3s disagree with you.

You might have that many. But how many did you download individually? People usually host entire albums. Even if you only tell BT to download a specific file, it still sets aside space for them, and you have to go in and delete the empty files manually--a hassle that other methods don't require. And regardless of whether you did, doesn't mean Bittorrent is any better for music. Bittorrent is insanely useful for movies, games, etc--but finding individual songs is not particularly efficient.

 

[Devion]

hahahaha devion, you make me laugh. you know i used to live in holland right?

you ARE stealing, and in fact your crime is worse, because not only are you taking a file, which you have no rights to. but you are also aiding and abbetting (sp?) a known fellon by taking his illegally broadcasted file.

and that IS dutch law...

you really should look things up properly man hahaha

Dude you make my stomache hurt of laughing, you lived in Holland and you think you know the law, haha.

I assume you can still read dutch

www.bigweb.nl

This is from an ANTI-priracy campagne(sp? ) website.(Klik on BIG regels)

It clearly say that downloading music and movies aint illegal, but software is.

If I would upload my music files, then I would be doing something illegal.

As you said:"you really should look things up properly man hahaha"

http://www.tweakers.net/nieuws/36108/?highlight=brein

More official link:

Hoewel de stichting B.I.G. anders doet suggereren, is het overigens zo dat het downloaden van filmmateriaal, net zoals muziekbestanden, vooralsnog niet bestraft kan worden.

Translation:

While the foundation BIG says different, downloading movies, likewise musicfiles aint illegal.

Link of dutch internet provider:

http://web.wanadoo.nl/muziek_archief_02-20545-1.html

Artricle about the same article I posted early.

http://www.tijd.be/vrije_tijd/artikel.asp?Id=1771226

Quote and translated.

Downloading music does no damage to industry.

 

[Jesus]

Devion, i had to know the dutch laws to get my citizenship.

go and read an ACTUAL law site, not a fan site (which is essentially what that is), which throws around things its found out. go and read for yourself, and THEN come back.

heck, even write to a soliciter.

 

[Devion]

Devion, i had to know the dutch laws to get my citizenship.

go and read an ACTUAL law site, not a fan site (which is essentially what that is), which throws around things its found out. go and read for yourself, and THEN come back.

heck, even write to a soliciter.

Dude, dont be foolish, www.tweakers.net is a independent newsite, VERY reliable.

BIG is ANTI-piracy website.(They held a national campagne against illegal downloading, SOFTWARE AND GAMES, music and movies is legal)

And a provider webpage.

So please dont be fool and read the damn links.

EDIT: Sorry, but this made me laugh, fan site, yeah, haha

But you wished a law site?

Ofcourse here:

http://www.iusmentis.com/auteursrecht/nl/thuiskopie/

Je hoeft geen rechtmatige eigenaar te zijn om een thuiskopie te mogen maken.

You dont have to be the rightfull owner to make a copy.

Je mag dus voor jezelf een gehuurde of geleende CD kopieren, of voor jezelf muziek in MP3-formaat van Internet downloaden.

You can therefore, for yourself, copy a rented or lent CD or for yourself download music in Mp3-format of the Internet.(Babelfish with slight edits)

 

[Jesus]

you took that out of context...

but either way. ill break something down for you.

1. being in holland, doesnt mean you cant break the laws of other countries. if you break an american/english/french etc. law, by downloading FROM one of their citizens. you are just as accountable as they are. EVEN if you live in holland.

2. stop hiding behind other peoples words and start realising not just the legal, but the moral implications of what your doing. its almost as if you have no opinion, other than "they say its ok, so im gonna do it, and screw everyone whos hurt by it". by downloading, your encouraging people to upload. your also, still taking peoples money.

 

[Devion]

you took that out of context...

but either way. ill break something down for you.

1. being in holland, doesnt mean you cant break the laws of other countries. if you break an american/english/french etc. law, by downloading FROM one of their citizens. you are just as accountable as they are. EVEN if you live in holland.

2. stop hiding behind other peoples words and start realising not just the legal, but the moral implications of what your doing. its almost as if you have no opinion, other than "they say its ok, so im gonna do it, and screw everyone whos hurt by it". by downloading, your encouraging people to upload. your also, still taking peoples money.

I didnt took it out of context, I wish a real dutch person could conform...sigh.

The funny is, I aint breaking an English/French/etc law.

Why?

Because, I am downloading from a foreigner, but I download FROM Holland, thus make a foreign law not apply to me.

Same as I smoke soft drugs here, I go to Germany and would be thrown into prison, which doesnt happen.

Why?

Because I commited the "crime" not in Germany but in Holland, thus making the law not apply to me.

And I'm not hiding behind words, but(if I would be hiding) behind a LAW.(Not a bazooka )

Also to make something clear, as OP said, downloaders arent taking money from you, who says they would buy the product they downloaded.

 

[Jesus]

if you arent going to buy it, you must not be interested in it. if your not interested in it, why are you downloading it?

that logic works both ways, you download something your interested in, so why not buy it?

and just because your in holland doesnt mean you cant be inadvertantly breaking the law in another country. the ONLY way you could get off on that, is if holland were holland didnt sign an extrodition treaty, which they did. if your found to be aiding ANY foraign national, your equally liable to be charged under that nationals laws.

 

[Nuttzy]

lets say your not interested on every single song on the album?,

if you like one song, 15-20 bucks for it is a tad excessive,

and like ive said, (and OP, and devion) who is to say that without the ability to download mp3s we wouldve bought the album to begin with?

much like people would crack a 3d modelling program cuz they dont want to buy it,... cough cough.

 

[Kurt`]

It's important to remember, lost profit != number of downloads * price of album

Say I downloaded the new *whatever* album. Would I have bought it if it wasn't available for download? Probably not, as I can think of much better things to spend my money on than albums.

Not everyone who downloads albums would BUY them in the first place, so there is no lost profit caused by those people. Sure it *hurts* the industry, but not to the extent that the RIAA makes it sound.

 

[Half-Unit]

But who's to say they wouldn't buy the album? You say we're basing our theories on skewed charts and "overly dramatic" scenarios, while you base your argument purely on an assumption. You don't know whether or not someone would pay for an album unless such a situation was forced upon them. Downloading has been around for so long now, people don't know life without it. How can you trust the word of someone who says "I wouldn't buy it anyway" if they were never in their life put into a position where they had to pay?

if you like one song, 15-20 bucks for it is a tad excessive,

This argument is wearing rather thin at this point as it's been addressed 83287409278472 times... :S (and ffs, let's at least get the price right. I've NEVER, EVER seen a $20 CD unless it was a two or three disk set. The range is more $10-$15)

It isn't as though there is no way to get around CD's that isn't stealing - sites like iTunes have been around for a while, now, and really aren't very expensive.

they still sell singles for christs sake

 

[Jesus]

lets say your not interested on every single song on the album?,

if you like one song, 15-20 bucks for it is a tad excessive,

and like ive said, (and OP, and devion) who is to say that without the ability to download mp3s we wouldve bought the album to begin with?

much like people would crack a 3d modelling program cuz they dont want to buy it,... cough cough.

if you dont like every song, then buy the single which you like enough to be interested in the first place

 

[Nuttzy]

The range is more $10-$15)

ffs get YOUR price right, the only place in the US youll find cds that cheap are in garage sales and bargain racks >_>.



9 times out of 10 they dont make a single for the song you want,

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

I think he meant singles.

You can therefore, for yourself, copy a rented or lent CD or for yourself download music in Mp3-format of the Internet.(Babelfish with slight edits)

Look, I don't know if you realize this, but that implies that you can make a copy of the actual media itself. As in, you own a CD or someone gives you a CD, there's no law against making a copy for yourself.

It doesn't say "you can just duplicate a song en masse at no benefit to the artist or distributor and give it to three million people." Downloading it from bit torrent or some nameless server, is stealing, even by that law that you brought up.

CDs are overpriced, none should cost more than $15 unless it's a double album, and singles should be $5. Considering it costs less than 5 cents per CD to make one -- casing, artwork and all.

But this is irrelevant. Regardless, I still don't understand how people can figure that it's okay to take something that they never paid for. Everyone else in this thread has said "well, I know it's not right, but it's more convenient/better," etc.

Devion, you just seem to be beating an extremely dead horse on the morality end of things.

And for what it's worth, lets cool down in here. I sense tempers flaring.

 

[VivaLaPineapple]

where the **** can u pick up cds for 10-15? please tell me now id like to know


there is something also wrong with those charts. you have to remember back in 1999-2001 there was a massive hysteria going around known as boy bands. 10 year old girls who couldnt use a computer and whose parents had way to much money to spend. lets not forget britney spears. Lets also take into account that bands around 1999 didnt all sound the same.

i cant tell the difference between new found glory, sum 41, simple plan and all those other ****ty bands that all came out at the same time. Can you really name an artist who has had an impact like Nsync or britney spears in the last couple years? the closest youll be able to get is linkin park, And lets face it there arnt enough wannabe emo kids to boost their sales enough.

mabey its not that downloading is hurting the music industry but mabey its because the music industry itself right now completely blows. I really cant think of any mainstream band that i would consider good.

the couple bands i do like that came out recently are still borderline. yeah yeah yeahs got a little fame for a sec, interpol seems to be hanging in there, and coheed and cambrea just completely fell off


and ya know what? if downloading wasnt around ya know what id do? id bust out a tape and record it straight off the damn radio like i use to do when i was little. money is a major issue in my mind weather id buy a cd or not $20 = no $15 = no $10 = mabey. and a damn single should be $2 i cant justify paying $5 for one song sorry just not ganna happen. id rather buy a meal at McDonalds for that price. i can do without a song ill no doubt here somewhere else

 

[Half-Unit]

Wha....? When's the last time anyone here actually went out and checked CD prices!?

http://www.circuitcity.com
http://www.bestbuy.com

Been a while, hasn't it? Unless it's paired with a DVD, I don't see anything scrape $20 and the only CD's I see hit $16 are double albums or a greatest hit CD. Everything seems to be $10-$15. And no, I don't mean singles.

 

[frsrblch]

If you are buying $20 CDs, youre getting ripped off. Go to Wally-mart, theyve got em for $14.99 or so.

I think that the last CD I bought for myself was either Big Shiny Tunes 2 or Weird Al - Running With Scizzors. Needless to say its been a while. Back then I would rather spend $15 on a movie (ahh, the days of VHS) that $15 on a CD. Now, rather than two CDs, its a season of my most favorite show, Trailer Park Boys that I walk home with. I would like it if I could say I at least had a few metal albums though...

 

[VivaLaPineapple]

u do know they charge less on the sites because of the extra shipping and handling fees right?

 

[Devion]

I think he meant singles.

Look, I don't know if you realize this, but that implies that you can make a copy of the actual media itself. As in, you own a CD or someone gives you a CD, there's no law against making a copy for yourself.

It doesn't say "you can just duplicate a song en masse at no benefit to the artist or distributor and give it to three million people." Downloading it from bit torrent or some nameless server, is stealing, even by that law that you brought up.

CDs are overpriced, none should cost more than $15 unless it's a double album, and singles should be $5. Considering it costs less than 5 cents per CD to make one -- casing, artwork and all.

But this is irrelevant. Regardless, I still don't understand how people can figure that it's okay to take something that they never paid for. Everyone else in this thread has said "well, I know it's not right, but it's more convenient/better," etc.

Devion, you just seem to be beating an extremely dead horse on the morality end of things.

And for what it's worth, lets cool down in here. I sense tempers flaring.

For the THOUSAND time I said, I(!) can download it legal here, for MYself.

I already said, sharing is against the law.

And dont try to even post against it, you trying to say I'm wrong for something even anti-piracy foundations say here in Holland, DOWNLOADING MUSIC IS LEGAL.(Here in Holland)

I'm not talking about morals.

if you arent going to buy it, you must not be interested in it. if your not interested in it, why are you downloading it?

that logic works both ways, you download something your interested in, so why not buy it?

and just because your in holland doesnt mean you cant be inadvertantly breaking the law in another country. the ONLY way you could get off on that, is if holland were holland didnt sign an extrodition treaty, which they did. if your found to be aiding ANY foraign national, your equally liable to be charged under that nationals laws.

NATIONAL laws only count between NATIONAL borders, geez get your facts right.

And even to your logic, I'm downloading, not uploading.

Why people dont buy it, price maybe?

Wha....? When's the last time anyone here actually went out and checked CD prices!?

http://www.circuitcity.com
http://www.bestbuy.com

Been a while, hasn't it? Unless it's paired with a DVD, I don't see anything scrape $20 and the only CD's I see hit $16 are double albums or a greatest hit CD. Everything seems to be $10-$15. And no, I don't mean singles.

You are right about that, but the fact is, not everyone buys from the internet for several reason, stated early in this thread.