Sub's Suggestion Thread

[Zeonix]

I hope you enjoy not being able to do that in 1.3.

 

[Snowm@n]

honestly I dont like the edited camera view, I like to see the model and his details, and I dont enjoy riding a fly around the map.

 

[Grega]

HOLD YOUR HORSES Harsens.. I NEED THAT FOR VIDS =[ save it for cheats!!


@ at zeo..


i dont use those views.. my prefered view is Default_fov 110 cam_idealdist 200 cam_zoffset 8..

my angles own cuz im good at it..

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Also before turning away from default fov, take a closer look at what its capable of.. ever tried the setting.. Default_Fov 10?? it makes the map look monsterously HUGE...

seriously I think you should scaledown all player models and swoop speeds/angles in balanced way so that maps look much bigger while the gameplay feels the same.

That would make the oponent models even harder to spot. The reason why its so hard to see them now is because the models are scaled down. Scaling them down even more would make it only worse. Youd barely see what you hit.

Not to mention the map textures would look even more low quality then now.

 

[VideoJinx]

scale down the textures.. and they only appear small cuz of the camera.. I also meant to Scale down the camera... Im sure there is a way to manipulate the view so everything small appears to be bigger.

If you actually explored this possibility.. you could have what seems to be a huge playing ground..

 

[Grega]

scale down the textures.. and they only appear small cuz of the camera.. I also meant to Scale down the camera... Im sure there is a way to manipulate the view so everything small appears to be bigger.

The textures are preety much as scaled down as they get in ESF.

Sure you could scale them down more, but that would increase r_speeds and filesize by quite a bit.

Since youd get 64 textures from the 16 you get now. Since everyone of those 16 would have to be sliced up in 4 of its own.

That would be insane for maps. So making everything look bigger would include the map textures. And the consequence would be even less quality textures.

 

[VideoJinx]

I'm not refering to the map... but the playable content in it..

such as player models. Default_fov 20 makes no effect on a stage's or players texture quality.. yet it makes the place look HUGE

And how would scaling down a model worsen its texture's quality, couldn't you simply scale down the textures too?

 

[Grega]

I'm not refering to the map... but the playable content in it..

such as player models. Default_fov 20 makes no effect on a stage's or players texture quality.. yet it makes the place look HUGE

And how would scaling down a model worsen its texture's quality, couldn't you simply scale down the textures too?

As i said you can. But the result would mean that the r_speeds would skyrocket.

Current maps are made out of 16 blocks sliced into triangles. Scaling down textures by lets say 4 would mean 64 blocks sliced into triangles. The smaller blocks would allso be more prone to compiling errors. And the time for terrain work would allso get more then 4 times longer.

 

[VideoJinx]

I'm not refering to the map... but the playable content in it..

What do you mean!??!

 

[Grega]

What do you mean!??!

If the Goku model is scaled down. The map seems like its bigger. All textures would be closer to your viewpoint and would allso seem scaled up because of that. As a result they would seem less sharp.

Just try to play an ESF map in normall HL. You should notice the map textures looking better then in ESF. While its only an optical illusion it still seems so just because the view area of the bigger models is higher.

Not to mention detailes would have to be even smaller and would end up more pixly in order to fit the new smaller characters.

 

[sub]

Grega is right, Jinx.

 

[VideoJinx]

graphics for gameplay.. ShAME ON YOU

 

[Grega]

graphics for gameplay.. ShAME ON YOU

OK then how about this example.

ESF alpha. The models were bigger. You had it easier to see the models without beeing insanely close to the player to such a detail that good/evil skins were noticeable.

ESF beta. The models are smaller. Standing at the same distance as in the alpha with no diamonds urned on you can hardly tell even what character it is, let alone friend or foe if it wasnt for the crosshair colour.

Now you say make them smaller >.>

 

[VideoJinx]

Well its just a suggestion =O... I man if u look @ cellgames.. the size of the arena and players aren't really matchin up... in the show the arena was pretty big compared to a person =O

but its just a suggestion >=O

 

[Grega]

Well its just a suggestion =O... I man if u look @ cellgames.. the size of the arena and players aren't really matchin up... in the show the arena was pretty big compared to a person =O

but its just a suggestion >=O

The whole Cellgames map isnt sa big as it could have been mapped you know. So that map is a bad example for size comparisson.

Besides the arena isnt THATT much smaller compared to the anime.

 

[Renyori]

Also when you teleport in 1.2 when doing nothing, you teleport in the last direction you were coming from, not directly up

Defininately get rid of the stamina that just slows down gameplay, you will definately see more "runners"

Im all in for the flying upside down thing, seems to make it more fun haha

I disgree with the fixed camera, some people just find it more comfortable looking at the character more further rather then up close, but i do think the default camera should be further then it normally is.

 

[sub]

Also when you teleport in 1.2 when doing nothing, you teleport in the last direction you were coming from, not directly up

Defininately get rid of the stamina that just slows down gameplay, you will definately see more "runners"

Im all in for the flying upside down thing, seems to make it more fun haha

I disgree with the fixed camera, some people just find it more comfortable looking at the character more further rather then up close, but i do think the default camera should be further then it normally is.

You can teleport directly up in 1.2. You might need to recharge first, but you can teleport up. In the current 1.3 build, teleporting up is replaced with teleporting no where at the cost of ki. Doesn't make much sense.

There was a console command in 1.1 that enabled you to fly upside down like in BFP. The animations for it were messed up, but it was possible.

I'm going to actually change my opinion on stamina, i'm now going to reserve judgment on stamina until I find out something. I still don't think it's needed, but it might not end up hurting game play.

 

[Renyori]

Stamina will bring abouts more tactical fighting styles, like evading/dodging and attacking when the other person is low on stamina but that could get annoying. I think most people prefer fast paced fighting, some people already do that tactical evade/dodging attacking at the right time, but with KI.. and that brought a lot of people who "run" a lot, which annoyed many players.. adding stamina will just add more. Thats just my opinion on it though.

 

[VideoJinx]

Suggestion:

Make the teleport work on the "release" of the teleport button, instead of when you press it.

- When you press it quickly, you do a "short-distance" teleport for less Ki.

- When you hold it slightly(1 full second), then release you do a normal distance teleport at the cost of normal ki.

Suggestion2:

Make stamina force players to use variety, to prevent spam.

- When you use a move it, doesn't use stamina.. If you do it again it uses stamina, If you use it again it uses even more stamina.

- If you literally spam the move until you empty your stamina you go into a state of "Down Time", where you have to recover stamina.

- When in down time you cant attack, and your movement becomes slugglish/slower so you cant easily run.

- Stamina shouldn't effect swoop unless they plan on adding ground gameplay.

 

[sub]

Suggestion:

Make the teleport work on the "release" of the teleport button, instead of when you press it.

- When you press it quickly, you do a "short-distance" teleport for less Ki.

- When you hold it slightly(1 full second), then release you do a normal distance teleport at the cost of normal ki.

Suggestion2:

Make stamina force players to use variety, to prevent spam.

- When you use a move it, doesn't use stamina.. If you do it again it uses stamina, If you use it again it uses even more stamina.

- If you literally spam the move until you empty your stamina you go into a state of "Down Time", where you have to recover stamina.

- When in down time you cant attack, and your movement becomes slugglish/slower so you cant easily run.

- Stamina shouldn't effect swoop unless they plan on adding ground gameplay.

In general the teleport is fine the way it is now. Teleport distance should be a constant for all characters in all forms, and it should work the instant you press the button.

Besides, your idea would basically be the equivalent of me pressing the teleport button twice. Remember, the thing I want to work towards is simplicity; if it complicates the game without adding much in terms of game play value (which is what your teleport suggestion does), the idea shouldn't be considered.

I'm not sure what the team is planning on doing with the stamina system, but the way it works in the current build I have no problems with. I don't think I'm allowed to say how it exactly works so I'll just leave it at me having no problems with it. I don't think it's staying the way it is now, though.

 

[harSens]

I changed the camera a bit. Got rid of default_fov, you can still set the fov with the fov command if sv_cheats is on. cam_xoffset now actually strafes the camera to the left/right of the player, rather than directly setting an x offset. This removed the need for a cam_yoffset. cam_xoffset, cam_zoffset and cam_idealdist are limited to some reasonable values.

As for the teleport, in the current openbeta it moves you in the direction the crosshair is pointing if you don't press any other buttons. Which amounts to staying in place if you're on the ground and slightly look down. I changed this default direction to up for now, we can see what we like best. Note that you can also teleport up using jump+teleport.

Powerlevel/transforms
I think the current (openbeta) transform system with pl bonusses rather than multipliers works pretty well. Your idea basicly amounts to taking out powerlevel altogether and let damage solely depend on the tier a player is in. I don't like that for a couple of reasons and subreasons:
- Once you're in the final tier, there are no more rewards other than score
- Less flexibility and less difference between characters
-- It becomes harder to design a strong but slow character vs a weaker but fast character
-- Either the number of tiers has to be the same for every character or you'd have something weird like characters with less transforms transforming from tier 1 to tier 4
- It doesn't fit well with the pl bonus system for 'cool actions' (for now, just winning a ps or bs)
- Basing transform possibilities on kills promotes kill stealing and picking on weaker players and gives no reward to taking out stronger players like the current pl system does.
-- Basing it on damage, as zeo proposes, still promotes killing weaker players (=those in lower tiers), simply because it's easier to deal more damage to them

The ki efficiency values are something that can be played with though. Although I don't like the general idea of a transform sacrificing ki-efficiency for speed and strength.

Tutorial
It was planned to not only have popups giving tips, but also relate some of the tips to what you're doing ingame. So, for example, it could give powerstruggle hints if you're in a ps or tell you to press jump if someone hits you in a wall, etc etc.