OMG,OMG,OMG!! THE BIG THREAD FOR PEOPLE WHO HATE 1.2!!!!

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

i'm a esf player since 1.0 so i know it all

Then you don't know about all the versions BEFORE 1.0, I guess.

I think it really probably amounts to this--all of the people who are complaining were probably enjoying the game before because of dominance against new players (who, when you think about it, not knowing how to target wouldn't be able to defend themselves at all, whereas in 1.2 they can fight back and escape more naturally), and probably an exploit.

Now, nobody wants to admit it. Everyone always says "Oh I never HOWed, I never beam spammed, I never shoot at someone when their back is turned, I never shot an SBC at someone who was still struggling my SBC, I'm the best at melee, I never trans to get out of a fight," and blah blah blah. But the fact of the matter is, most people are *****ing because the exploits are gone, and in my opinion the game is incredibly well balanced and now is difficult to exploit effectively.

I guess that'd frustrate me too, if it was the only way I knew how to play.

 

[zolmaster]

Ok, so the way I see it:

Better to win an easy fight, than to lose a hard one?

In 1.2 all they have done is level out the playing field. Imagine you have never played a mod before and you join a server to see what its like. In CS noobs arent disconcerted coz of the luckshot factor, but do the highest level players get pwned? No, coz they are still a good deal better at the game than noobs. The simple fact of the matter is you think that noobs should simply be there so you can beat the **** out of them. I think you need to be a noob just to see what its like. Just imagine, a game where you rocked so hard that no-one would play against you, thats so cool aint it? Or, a game that was so unfair and unbalanced that only one guy was good at it, that sux doesnt it?

I play on spectator, and still get away with a relatively good score of 38/9 against everyone else on our server. The simple fact that noobs are "owning" you means one thing, you arent playing it right :/

Oh but you say, the noobs arent pwning you, but a noob should just be a noob. Then you become an elitist prick who sits in the corner all alone in his elitist little world coz none of the "noobs" will be his friends.

The simple fact is dude, if you want a steep learning curve, go play Virtua Fighter 4. NOW THAT IS A LEARNING CURVE!!!

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

(zeo had just come home from a party...i think you know what is usually at parties. For those of you who dont, its called the nectar of the gods)

Nectar of the Choads, more like it. But staying on topic:

Actually, none of the 1.1 players started from scratch. The basics were still there. Getting used to advanced melee was that was needed. Figuring out double-tap swooping isnt exactly a science.

Uhh...hello? That's like the chief complaint I hear, lately. "Double tap swoop is lame and unresponsive!"

I still am having a hard time swallowing the fact that people are actually complaining that everyone is on level ground. And for those who say the advanced melee is skill-less, I ask you--why is it that every time I catch someone who's whoring on simple melee, am I able to, most times, beat him senseless and combo him twice?

 

[martinfalch]

Actually, none of the 1.1 players started from scratch. The basics were still there. Getting used to advanced melee was that was needed. Figuring out double-tap swooping isnt exactly a science.


It does suck when killed by a noob. It sucks even more when you're killed by someone you werent even fighting. This i dont really care about. And about advanced melee being about luck: well, it does. Even some of the mods here have said it. Thats one of the many things the patch addresses.

Btw, you may want to check your spelling. Its spelled techniques, not technics.

Thats about all i have to say except that i apologize to all for my behavior on the forums. Thanks for the warnings, Boyster. Maybe this'll teach me a lesson lol.

With "starting from scratch" i was thinking about the mellee only. The simple mellee has been redone, and the advanced mellee is all new. Therefore i would think that its like everybody have to start from about scratch - pretty much all a newcomer would need would be to read the manual, therefore i think a lot of the complaining is about the new basis coming along with 1.2 - all the vets dont have such great distance to the newcomers as they hoped for..

About the luck part - this thread have various examples of players being able to "predict" their opponents moves, its possible to dodge more randoms if you use your brain while playing, read freedoms post. And i dont see why it sucks to get killed by a noob? If he kills you once then "hey - what the heck, he got lucky" and it shouldnt bother you. If he kills you more than once, then hey - perhaps hes just not a noob ? Or perhaps you just need to get into training a bit more... Think of it as a nice reminder, because the really skilled players dont just get killed by a noob - try playing the ultimate bot, a noob wouldnt be able to kill it for the first 1½ hours... And some players are on that lvl, so go train .

I dont think my spelling has much to do with the content of my post, so pm me about it... Im danish, so when you've learned the danish word for technique please come and correct me again

/Max

 

[Zeonix]

Once again to Martinfalch: Advanced melee is so complicated that people have to study the manual. Take a quick glimpse at the melee section and bam! You know what to do. The rest comes from experience.

Luck has a major role in using advanced melee. If you want to beat someone at your skill level or higher, you're gonna need more than button smashing to help you win. Your ping also plays a factor in who wins the the struggle or w/e you wanna call it, but thats besides the point.

I didnt mean getting killed with melee by noobs is annoying (getting prepunched when you have 6 hp can be annoying though). I just said getting killed by them in general is annoying. Ever get killed over and over from spirit bombs or sbcs right after you and your opponent have been blown away from each other? Its is pretty hard to dodge when you've just recovered from the blow-back.

I believe the danish word for technique is de techniek. Not positive though.

And as for SaiyanPride: Simple Melee Whoring? Jesus...people make up names for everything. Anyway, he couldnt have been that good if you said you defeated him so easily. Either that, or you're pretty good yourself.

Double tap isnt lame but sometimes it is a bit unresponsive. Especially so during intense combat, but w/e.

 

[Scruff]

on some thing you know better and one BIG thing is not trow.
i'm a esf player since 1.0 so i know it all.
and with the bfp thing do i mean that bfp never had this mutch disepointed things in every part, even if esf is more atvances doesn't mean he is bad, it's just more a hardcore game so i like bfp and (when he get's released) zeq2 so that means that i think hl engine sux for what about the fast playing.
it's what i think of esf1.2 so don't critz about that, my stuff is what i like :devgrin: .

Oh, it's the only big thing, is it? And why is that a problem? They said it was the main concern of 1.2 to put Advanced Melee in, so getting it and complaining that it's bad because Advanced Melee is the only 'big thing' in it is stupid. Why didn't you complain about it before they released it? I mean, they told you in advance, you were aware that you shouldn't expect much of a huge massive improvement outisde of melee.

And yeah, there are bugs in it, but that's the point of a Beta, dumbass, to work out the kinks in a game. And you know how that's done? It's done by using feedback and constructive criticism from the fans. You really seem to be doing your job. :S

Do you know how laughable it is that you're saying you know it all because you've been playing since 1.0? Let me let you in on a little secret: It wasn't the first version of ESF.

The Alphas preceeding 1.0 were full of bugs. I think you should count your ****ing lucky stars here mate that you have something as relativley bug free (Yeah, I said Bug Free) as 1.2.

You know what else is curious? During the Alpha days there weren't nearly as many bloody-minded ****s as there are now making stupid posts about how crap the game was. God, they're right, the world is getting dumber.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

You know what else is curious? During the Alpha days there weren't nearly as many bloody-minded ****s as there are now making stupid posts about how crap the game was. God, they're right, the world is getting dumber.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[martinfalch]

Once again to Martinfalch: Advanced melee is so complicated that people have to study the manual. Take a quick glimpse at the melee section and bam! You know what to do. The rest comes from experience.

Luck has a major role in using advanced melee. If you want to beat someone at your skill level or higher, you're gonna need more than button smashing to help you win. Your ping also plays a factor in who wins the the struggle or w/e you wanna call it, but thats besides the point.

I didnt mean getting killed with melee by noobs is annoying (getting prepunched when you have 6 hp can be annoying though). I just said getting killed by them in general is annoying. Ever get killed over and over from spirit bombs or sbcs right after you and your opponent have been blown away from each other? Its is pretty hard to dodge when you've just recovered from the blow-back.

I believe the danish word for technique is de techniek. Not positive though.

And as for SaiyanPride: Simple Melee Whoring? Jesus...people make up names for everything. Anyway, he couldnt have been that good if you said you defeated him so easily. Either that, or you're pretty good yourself.

Double tap isnt lame but sometimes it is a bit unresponsive. Especially so during intense combat, but w/e.

If you want to beat someone at a higher level than yourself then yes it requires more than just buttonsmashing, thats right. If your refering to the advanced mellee part, then try to predict, and if its all impossible, make sure you DONT get into advanced mellee with him. Try new TECHNIQUES as pride also suggested.. If your ping is killing you, create your own server and let it be a problem for the other folks who seem to be doing fine with it... The noob-blowback-BAM part would be fixed by the 1 sec invul. after mellee, and btw if you get killed by spiritbomb over and over again after blowback, try using some new TECHNIQUE instead of going into mellee fights. After some time, the goku will prob find something new to do.

Offtopic:
"I believe the danish word for technique is de techniek. Not positive though."
Its teknik.

 

[Zeonix]

Ping is not a problem as i have cable. And i believe melee was meant to be used. Even if i chose not to use it, being meleed is inevitable. Eventually, i would get caught in an advanced melee battle, and guess what? I would be killed onece more by sbcs. I think you dont understand this , so ill say it. Im not talking about me when i make these posts. Im mostly referring to what I've heard people complain about over and over on many a server.

And you're not protected after you have finished recovering from the blowback. If everyone were to be protected, i wouldnt have said that.

 

[Cheeto101]

Annnddd the way i see this thread (as well as the rest of the Entire comunitee) you have a few people complaining about a few little things while the rest of the comunitee is in love with the game.

Seeing as the team is fixing a bunch of the stuff people are complaining about in the next patch and seeing as theres just a few people who dont like the learning curve (and they still havnt given a sensible reason as to why yet aside from the fact that they just dont like getting killed :S ) i dont really see what we're all arguing about here.

Half of your complaints will be dealt with in the next patch...the other stuff about the learning curve etc. youll just have to deal with it. ESF is the most popular its ever been (as far as i know) right now for a reason and im sure the team wont be making any sweeping changes to the system they just speant a year perfecting.

 

[martinfalch]

Ping is not a problem as i have cable. And i believe melee was meant to be used. Even if i chose not to use it, being meleed is inevitable. Eventually, i would get caught in an advanced melee battle, and guess what? I would be killed onece more by sbcs. I think you dont understand this , so ill say it. Im not talking about me when i make these posts. Im mostly referring to what I've heard people complain about over and over on many a server.

And you're not protected after you have finished recovering from the blowback. If everyone were to be protected, i wouldnt have said that.

Well if your generalizing then i guess my posts are generalized as well (bad grammar), so the advice about creating your own server goes to those who have ping problems. About the being meleed part and that it is inevitable - that just aint true. Aaaaagain i refer to the ultimate bot, which is really a nice piece of work - its almost impossible to catch it with melee, so yes you might get a hit every 10-15 minutes, but if you really want to, youre able to get around the meleer. And i didnt want you not to use melee, just saying that if you get beaten up because your using it (cuz that is indirectly what your getting) then simply switch tactic for a while, try simple melee, try kicking the beamspammers ass, try something.

 

[Zeonix]

I use simple melee 90% of the time. My tactics are not the problem. I do in fact go after the beam spammer, but esf has a way of replacing what its about to lose. What im trying to say is another beam spammer comes out from the depths of hell and now i have 2 of them after my ass. And believe me, they are willing to sacrafice their own lives to kill players, even if they dont gain a frag lol.

 

[MysticUub]

The odd thing is, I don't quite understand why all the swoop *****ery hasn't been silenced by some scripter. Isn't it as easy as binding mouse 1 to +forward, stop, wait however many fractions of a second, +forward, or something like that? Not that I want to SEE scripting...there's enough bull****tery as is out there...but it might at least shut them up.

thats because the team coded somthing into the game that doesnt allow multiple commands at one time....even tho they add the wait...its still a command...this is also the reason y tele isnt scripted either...even tho it would be kinda useless...by using what u said u would just bind tele; wait .12 sec (or whatever it is);tele...that doesnt work...

I ask you--why is it that every time I catch someone who's whoring on simple melee, am I able to, most times, beat him senseless and combo him twice?

....apparently they arent all that great...and what u said earlier about putting a heavy in front and then doing the combo...i do that and land the next two hits...both the < and the diagonal after it and it still doesnt go through...i dunno if its supposed to be like that or if its the block bug that sonic mentioned in another thread of what...but if someone from the mod/dev team could let me know id appreciate it cause its really rackin my brain....

 

[Barney's Soul]

wow 7 pages, u all hate 1.2?? i like it its cool, cept 1.1 mele turned into noob mele that does high damage.

 

[Cyfore]

....apparently they arent all that great...and what u said earlier about putting a heavy in front and then doing the combo...i do that and land the next two hits...both the < and the diagonal after it and it still doesnt go through...i dunno if its supposed to be like that or if its the block bug that sonic mentioned in another thread of what...but if someone from the mod/dev team could let me know id appreciate it cause its really rackin my brain....

if they block the directions the combo wont go through... even if you do get a blockbreaker.

 

[MysticUub]

no thats just it...i get the heavy hit...then the next two hits...which are from the combo...its supposed to go through weather they block it or not...so y dont i get the combo

 

[NightShade]

*sighs*


Adv melee is worthless. Its eye candy to pros then again when fighting noobs. i love getting 3 combos in a row on them.

So that leaves teleport delay. np its counter with a more control swoop.

That leaves beams. I think the beam part of the game needs working now. Like i said i miss the powerstruggles. and the beams seem to move out of the way of my target in a struggle.

Ok the people who are crying i think are just tired of the same old gameplay. Lets face it. Noone works as a team besides clan matches. and duels are a major thing of esf. So
imo i think the 1 on 1 matches should be the main focus of esf with new gameplay.

Being able to hide pl. Get stronger and stronger. then when its someone else turn that is powerful. you crank up your pl to blow them away. Thats what many people been wanting. So for you guys saying esf is boring blah blah. when new gameplay comes out then it will be alot better. No need to say esf 1.2 sucks when it is still a wip.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Teleport can't be countered with a more controlled swoop, the delay isn't even noticeable if you don't spam it, and I still get into beam struggles with people who actually use the beams. Advanced melee is a framework for future work on the melee systems. In time it's damage will probably be upped and it'll be preferable to simple melee. It's already getting a boost with the new cvar and simple is already being nerfed (not really significantly) to try and level them out, but give the game more time and it'll get more complicated.

 

[Cenax]

One little tip ill give for making advanced meele useful.. use alot of Red Ups. When people get random's, Up is the one thats almost never pressed. Never use diagnal arrows, as you only have 1/2 chance to suceed instead of 3/4 if its random. Also, a neat trick is to make fake combo's... Do the first half of one of the special combo's, but halfway through just throw in a Red-Up. They will push the keys in for the actual combo, and be wrong. Even funnier if its the last attack in the string, as combat is FORCED to end, with the enemy flying like crazy for 15 or so damage.

 

[Zeonix]

And now that you've posted this, everyone will try to do it, thus rendering it useless lol. It does sound good, but i think most people already figured this out.

Advanced melee is a framework for future work on the melee systems. In time it's damage will probably be upped and it'll be preferable to simple melee.

I would like to see that happen. Advanced melee has potential but at the moment
the simplicity and effectiveness of 1.1 melee (simple melee, w/e) is just too much to pass up. Ill continue to use it until the patch (hope it changes things for the better).