Just some quick questions! (ALOT)

[BlueSaiyan]

I WOULD PLAY THIS CHARACTER SO HARD. Also, he'd be way OP obviously. Simply by naming him 'Zeonix' gives him infinity EVERYTHING.

^ Slurpin' and Burpin'.

 

[Horatio]

^ Slurpin' and Burpin'.

Thank you,BlueSaiyan. What would we do without that valuable contribution to the forum? I think this project would be dead if it weren't for your amazing poetic and literary skills. I salute you.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

These characters i would like to see in this game, uub, kid goten, kid trunks, Supreme Kai

And if theres a outfit changer, to select which outfit you would like to wear that is pre-set, NOT customized. Then maybe we can have all vegeta's outfits his armour, etc.

Probably need to wait until the game is released and people start making custom models.

 

[EndreVanan]

And if theres a outfit changer, to select which outfit you would like to wear that is pre-set, NOT customized. Then maybe we can have all vegeta's outfits his armour, etc.

Best Vegeta is when he was training in the gravity room with Trunks and all he was wearing was those black shorts and shoes.

Mmm shirtless Vegeta come over here and make furious love to me

 

[Grega]

Been meaning to ask.

About the melee system. I always liked Budokai tenkaichi because it had something no other DBZ game not even ESF had. And that was the ability to make combos while juggling people.

The furthest ESF has ever taken this, and quite horribly in fact in 1.2.3 because of the SAFE invincibility timer where you cant get hit while recovering from a basic melee hit or throw.

If you swoop up and basic melee someone, will it be possible to catch them in the new combo-melee system or a throw for a follow up hit, or will it it just allow for another basic melee hit like in 1.2.3?

And also will you only be allowed 1 follow up hit like in 1.2.3 or are you guys allowing for more this time?

All 3 melee systems function like simple melee at their core. So you have simple melee, simple melee with a combo animation and simple melee with a throw animation. Also we are allowing for unlimited hits like in 1.1

The reason for the 2 hit limit was 1.2 blowback speed resulting in it being to easy to chain hits. With the addition of instant recoveries and increased blow back speed that is not really needed anymore.

As for the invoulnerability thing. Think of it as not being the ESF equivalent of being unable to hit someone who is flat on their back in the budokai games.

 

[Nebulisreconx]

Thank you for that illuminating info >,,< I'm really glad that the melee is getting this rehaul. It'll help keep the pace of action fluent and fun.

I always thought the way the melee system functions in 1.2.3 works pretty well for what it is, but I totally suffers given the characters small ki reserves during intense fights.. and makes it nigh impossible to fight multiple people effectively.. let alone keep up with one who knows how to keep moving and track ungodly fast.

So it has the potential to offer battles that mimic the caliber of those in the series, but one finds that anyone moderately skilled in the game knows to effectively time every charge and movement so acutely that there is, just about no hope for any dynamic battles. Just a few accurate routines, and repeat.

Once you play like this it seems there is no hope in opening up to any of the mechanics outside of what is 'most' functional, you have a system so refined, and timing so exact that you know precisely when your window of opportunity opens up for the next attack.. to anyone on the receiving end the word 'domination' becomes a bewildering understatement.

And if you cannot be at least be as persistently relentless than they are.. then you shouldn't even consider the thought of taking a moment to charge your ki.

I don't want to see this kinda binary combat turn out to be the same pinnacle of skill that is so unforgivingly dominant in it's predecessor. One can easily see how it has turned allot of people away from the game by only offering a chance to the hard-boiled, elite perfectionist, and the ones with iron resolve, cutting out many of average players, and most if not all of those with coordination(Or temperament) inferior even to that.

I'm not sure how it all will weigh out in the end.. or if it will be as 'Control' based as 1.2.3; but it looks like a big leap in the right direction.. and opening up and MAYBE encouraging players to use alternative methods to deal with the situation.

 

[Grega]

We are not changing the ki consumption.

Managing your KI pool is an integral part of ESF.

 

[RobiZ]

We are not changing the ki consumption.

Managing your KI pool is an integral part of ESF.

Does that mean that simple kamehameha will consume biggest part of your KI (like it was in 1.2.3) , even if you have like 90000000 KI ?

 

[Zeonix]

Thank you for that illuminating info >,,< I'm really glad that the melee is getting this rehaul. It'll help keep the pace of action fluent and fun.

I always thought the way the melee system functions in 1.2.3 works pretty well for what it is, but I totally suffers given the characters small ki reserves during intense fights.. and makes it nigh impossible to fight multiple people effectively.. let alone keep up with one who knows how to keep moving and track ungodly fast.

So it has the potential to offer battles that mimic the caliber of those in the series, but one finds that anyone moderately skilled in the game knows to effectively time every charge and movement so acutely that there is, just about no hope for any dynamic battles. Just a few accurate routines, and repeat.

Once you play like this it seems there is no hope in opening up to any of the mechanics outside of what is 'most' functional, you have a system so refined, and timing so exact that you know precisely when your window of opportunity opens up for the next attack.. to anyone on the receiving end the word 'domination' becomes a bewildering understatement.

And if you cannot be at least be as persistently relentless than they are.. then you shouldn't even consider the thought of taking a moment to charge your ki.

I don't want to see this kinda binary combat turn out to be the same pinnacle of skill that is so unforgivingly dominant in it's predecessor. One can easily see how it has turned allot of people away from the game by only offering a chance to the hard-boiled, elite perfectionist, and the ones with iron resolve, cutting out many of average players, and most if not all of those with coordination(Or temperament) inferior even to that.

I'm not sure how it all will weigh out in the end.. or if it will be as 'Control' based as 1.2.3; but it looks like a big leap in the right direction.. and opening up and MAYBE encouraging players to use alternative methods to deal with the situation.

You're going to be highly disappointed in 1.3.

 

[Grega]

Does that mean that simple kamehameha will consume biggest part of your KI (like it was in 1.2.3) , even if you have like 90000000 KI ?

KI doesnt change. What changes is PL. They are 2 separate systems in ESF. KI is your ammo, where PL is the damage multiplier.

 

[RobiZ]

KI doesnt change. What changes is PL. They are 2 separate systems in ESF. KI is your ammo, where PL is the damage multiplier.

Oh ok that makes everything clear to me

 

[hleV]

KI doesnt change. What changes is PL. They are 2 separate systems in ESF. KI is your ammo, where PL is the damage multiplier.

That naming scheme is retarded, TBH. Why not name them energy and ki? Hell, the current ki ("ammo") could be named stamina, but I believe you gave that name to something else.

 

[Zeonix]

Ki applies to the energy aspect of the being, stamina applies to the physical aspect of the being, and power level is the sum of all parts.

 

[Nebulisreconx]

Bigger pools. This matters allot. Like I said I'll just have to see when it comes if it's actually been improved in this field. I just think it's stupid having to stop every 5 seconds to charge a little bit of your energy. This recharging has been a big part of EVERY DBZ game thus far. I wish one would try to emulate the series more accurately, and finally grow out of this system.

 

[Zeonix]

Keep in mind endless charging is the only thing keeping pros in line.

 

[Grega]

Bigger pools. This matters allot. Like I said I'll just have to see when it comes if it's actually been improved in this field. I just think it's stupid having to stop every 5 seconds to charge a little bit of your energy. This recharging has been a big part of EVERY DBZ game thus far. I wish one would try to emulate the series more accurately, and finally grow out of this system.

We are not trying to emulate DBZ. We are trying to make a fast paced action title. And having a system that prevents eternal running away goes a long way in that direction. Keaping an eye on your KI is integral. Its like knowing how many bullets you have in your gun in a FPS. You dont want to run in to a room full of enemies with only 1 bullet in the clip.

 

[Nebulisreconx]

We are not trying to emulate DBZ. We are trying to make a fast paced action title. And having a system that prevents eternal running away goes a long way in that direction. Keaping an eye on your KI is integral. Its like knowing how many bullets you have in your gun in a FPS. You dont want to run in to a room full of enemies with only 1 bullet in the clip.

I don't even see how this prevents "eternal running away" as most people already know how to get away from you with minimal energy using but not limited to: Gliding, swooping, high-speed movement(teleporting), and beam jumping. That's kinda a horrible excuse to lay behind it. Most average players can accomplish this and get far enough to fully charge their ki and do it all over again.

And for PROS like I said in my first post on this thread, they have the timing down so acutely having unlimited KI wouldn't really change anything unless you are JUST as skilled as they are. Which, lets face it, most of us don't come close.

Then.. I just thought of a neat feature for the Ki. I personally hate having to glance at the blue Ki bar when I'm fighting someone and instantly loose track of them because of it. What if the amount of ki you had was represented by the intensity of your Aura? For instance Full KI makes it starker, and bold, while less Ki kinda makes it fade out as it gets closer to depleting.

It's also noted that all of these characters were able to sense eachother's ki so this would make a great opportunity to see your opponent's energy level and plan out your next movement.

I don't see how this could in any way cripple the game, but I like to play with my HUD turned off(reticule and all) in most games, and would like to see this an option in ESF. Giving some sort of visual representation would help players keep track of their ki without taking their eyes off the action. What do you think?

 

[Grega]

I don't even see how this prevents "eternal running away" as most people already know how to get away from you with minimal energy using but not limited to: Gliding, swooping, high-speed movement(teleporting), and beam jumping. That's kinda a horrible excuse to lay behind it. Most average players can accomplish this and get far enough to fully charge their ki and do it all over again.

And for PROS like I said in my first post on this thread, they have the timing down so acutely having unlimited KI wouldn't really change anything unless you are JUST as skilled as they are. Which, lets face it, most of us don't come close.

Then.. I just thought of a neat feature for the Ki. I personally hate having to glance at the blue Ki bar when I'm fighting someone and instantly loose track of them because of it. What if the amount of ki you had was represented by the intensity of your Aura? For instance Full KI makes it starker, and bold, while less Ki kinda makes it fade out as it gets closer to depleting.

It's also noted that all of these characters were able to sense eachother's ki so this would make a great opportunity to see your opponent's energy level and plan out your next movement.

I don't see how this could in any way cripple the game, but I like to play with my HUD turned off(reticule and all) in most games, and would like to see this an option in ESF. Giving some sort of visual representation would help players keep track of their ki without taking their eyes off the action. What do you think?

Gliding is a lot harder due to the new swoop mechanic and a lot slower than swoop now.
Overuse of teleport drains your stamina REALLY quickly. And Stamina can not be charged. Once you run out of that, you can not swoop, you can not teleport and are a sitting duck. Also when using turbo stamina does not recharge.
Beam jumping has had the bug with turbo fixed, so its no longer that quick. And is in fact slower than a swoop with the new speeds.

As for pros having the advantage due to their knowledge of the game. Its the same in all skill based games. Ever played a fighter or a racing game against a pro? Youll never win unless its a fluke. And ESF isnt even as strict as those types of games.

As for your KI idea. Sounds interesting. Im guessing you can make something along the lines of a specialized HUD with only visual cues and no exact numbers along with no crosshair, but as far as seeing how well your opponent is doing, thats unrealistic. You can barely make out the opponents character due to the shrunken size of ESF models, let alone tell how transparent his aura is.

 

[Baaja]

I really liked that KI idea and how other HUD elements could be implemented a bit more intuitively to the game. A lot people really change the UI elements within the game so that it suites them better, would there be any possibility of changing each of the HUD elements in terms of positioning, scale but also to use different elements from a specific HUD "set". I know that you've been working on a few different default HUDs, but can we mix and match them?

I remember that in WoW, I just had to have my specific UI addons because that was the way I played the best e.g. I used IceHud which provided me with different bars at the center of the screen indicating my health, targets health and other vital information instead of using the original health bars located at the top left. This made me more efficient in PvP situations as I could focus on the enemy more intensely.

 

[Grega]

The HUDs use an XML file that describes what does what and what affects what.

So you can pretty much make a HUD with no health bar that tints the edges of your screen as you drop in HP. Ofcourse you have to set up checks like below 50% and so on. But its all XML driven.