ESF comparison thread
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Ravendust
They're "Excuse" to that question is "They want everyone to get used to the 1.2 speed"
Pretty dumb to me, but Cold Steel if you ever read any of my posts or other peoples posts. I'll say this in caps so you might identify it with your 0/20 Vision.
PEOPLE DO NOT ALLOW TRANSFORMATIONS WHILE IN 1V1 OR A CLAN MATCH WHERE FIGHTING ACTUALLY MATTERS.
BUT IN PUBS PEOPLE WILL TRANSFORM SIT AT A CORNER AND BEAM SPAM THE ENTIRE TIME.
ALSO THE SO CALLED "L33TS" GET BORED AFTER AWHILE OF JUST EASILY DOMINATING THE SERVER, SO IT WILL STILL GET OLD EACH, AND EVERYTIME.
^ GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD
ANOTHER THING WHEN YOU TRANSFORM IT MAKES THE GAME EVEN MORE IMBALANCED BECAUSE OF THE OBSCENE LOW STAMINA COSTS FOR SSJ.
I KNOW FOR A FACT IN THE SHOW SSJ MADE IT SO YOU DRAINED MORE KI, AND THEY WOULD GET TIRED FASTER.
THE TRANSFORMATIONS WILL TAKE TOO LONG TO GET TO THE LAST LEVEL IN 1.3,
AND I AM SURE NO ONE WANTS TO SPEND A HOUR GETTING A POWERLEVEL HIGH ENOUGH TO DO SO,
AND GO THROUGH THE ALREADY LONG TRANSFORMATION ANIMATION TO DO SO.
WE ALSO JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME FOR THE "GAMEPLAY" NOT TO SIT IN A SERVER FOR A HOUR JUST FOR THE SERVER TO CRASH WHILE WE TRANSFORM BECAUSE WE KNOW FOR A FACT IT WILL.
*Looks at 1.2*
3 PATCHES, AND IT STILL CRASHES.
They're "Excuse" to that question is "They want everyone to get used to the 1.2 speed"
Pretty dumb to me, but Cold Steel if you ever read any of my posts or other peoples posts. I'll say this in caps so you might identify it with your 0/20 Vision.
PEOPLE DO NOT ALLOW TRANSFORMATIONS WHILE IN 1V1 OR A CLAN MATCH WHERE FIGHTING ACTUALLY MATTERS.
BUT IN PUBS PEOPLE WILL TRANSFORM SIT AT A CORNER AND BEAM SPAM THE ENTIRE TIME.
ALSO THE SO CALLED "L33TS" GET BORED AFTER AWHILE OF JUST EASILY DOMINATING THE SERVER, SO IT WILL STILL GET OLD EACH, AND EVERYTIME.
^ GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD
ANOTHER THING WHEN YOU TRANSFORM IT MAKES THE GAME EVEN MORE IMBALANCED BECAUSE OF THE OBSCENE LOW STAMINA COSTS FOR SSJ.
I KNOW FOR A FACT IN THE SHOW SSJ MADE IT SO YOU DRAINED MORE KI, AND THEY WOULD GET TIRED FASTER.
THE TRANSFORMATIONS WILL TAKE TOO LONG TO GET TO THE LAST LEVEL IN 1.3,
AND I AM SURE NO ONE WANTS TO SPEND A HOUR GETTING A POWERLEVEL HIGH ENOUGH TO DO SO,
AND GO THROUGH THE ALREADY LONG TRANSFORMATION ANIMATION TO DO SO.
WE ALSO JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME FOR THE "GAMEPLAY" NOT TO SIT IN A SERVER FOR A HOUR JUST FOR THE SERVER TO CRASH WHILE WE TRANSFORM BECAUSE WE KNOW FOR A FACT IT WILL.
*Looks at 1.2*
3 PATCHES, AND IT STILL CRASHES.
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Good point
Yes I/we want speed, but not just as ssj. I now realise it was the combo - tele combination that caused so much intensity. Hitting somone wasn't the biggest problem, turninig it into an ubercool/impressive combo was and that's something 1.2 lacks. Either you do 2 hits a kiblast or some beam, you use the ceiling to get x hits or you just keep smacking em while they're rolling on the ground, nothing cool about that now is it? That factor alone affected both speed and gameplay in 1.1 as it did both.
Though most of the impressive fights in 1.1 were as ssj (more ki = more combo = cooler to do/see), normal battles were pretty fast paced as well. I think that you could split those up somewhat...
As normal(non-ssj), you can have short, slow knockbacks, after all - you're not at your strongest/fastest yet and it makes sense. Each time you ascend, you improve your combo ability: more ki, faster and longer knockbacks (again, introducing the blocking ability). That would encourage people to actually transform (would be nice if there was a cvar which allows you to change the starting pl. Yes, that will be a little unbalanced but in clanmatches people only play with a few chars anway - besides if you wanna fight kid buu as ssj trunks you're asking for it anyway >_>). That doesn't mean simple melee can stay like it is now, every improvement is welcome. I'm just saying that transforming will bring more abilities than just higher stats and attacks, it adds some gameplay elements. To actually use that, you would have to lower trans powerlevels for some chars as it wouldn't be much fun having to fight for half an hour just to get extended abilities (unbalanced).
Like I said, that would give people a reason to transform other than just higher powerlevel/health and a new attack. But what if someone just joined the server and has to face ssj3 goku?
1) Have it so that he is automatically ssj/ssj2 the moment he/she joins (cvar?)
2) Let them work for it (non-ssj) which might be unfair (no cvar)
3) Just increase some stats and give some [temporary?] powerup per life (slowly regenerating ki/extra % damage/no combo limitations) until he/she reaches the required pl for transformation. (cvar?) NOT when he/she transforms, just as soon as the powerlevel is aquired so they CAN transform and no uber-lame powerups, just something they really need.
Depending on how much the differences in transformations are, you could still give a few benefits to the just-transformed but not as effective as before. This would make things a bit fair (assuming the differences are quit big) but wouldn't hamper gameplay everytime. If you want to combo, you just transform as fast as you can. I'm not sure how this would work in public servers as there will be people who joined from the beginning but never got much powerlevel due to inexperience.
However, some people only use beams and spam as soon as they reach a higher level. To avoid this, have some code that registers the amount of kills used by beams (code could be a cvar, mostly for public servers). The server administrator could have a menu that would allow him to choose the amount of kills by beams before a certain punishment is given. The admin could then select a punishment: removal of all attacks except melee, kiblast, generic beam and senzu/kicked from server/players get damaged or killed (slap/slay). He should also determine the amount of time that will reset the number (deaths will automatically reset?) That would force the beam people to not excessively use beams on certain servers.
Now you may ask why just beams... Melee can be annoying as well but requires a bit more skill than just holding the mouse button and detonating an attack in the middle of a fight. Besides, it doesn't prevent beaming 100%, you just have to mix them.
*kind of a suggestion post, but meh :/*
Yes I/we want speed, but not just as ssj. I now realise it was the combo - tele combination that caused so much intensity. Hitting somone wasn't the biggest problem, turninig it into an ubercool/impressive combo was and that's something 1.2 lacks. Either you do 2 hits a kiblast or some beam, you use the ceiling to get x hits or you just keep smacking em while they're rolling on the ground, nothing cool about that now is it? That factor alone affected both speed and gameplay in 1.1 as it did both.
Though most of the impressive fights in 1.1 were as ssj (more ki = more combo = cooler to do/see), normal battles were pretty fast paced as well. I think that you could split those up somewhat...
As normal(non-ssj), you can have short, slow knockbacks, after all - you're not at your strongest/fastest yet and it makes sense. Each time you ascend, you improve your combo ability: more ki, faster and longer knockbacks (again, introducing the blocking ability). That would encourage people to actually transform (would be nice if there was a cvar which allows you to change the starting pl. Yes, that will be a little unbalanced but in clanmatches people only play with a few chars anway - besides if you wanna fight kid buu as ssj trunks you're asking for it anyway >_>). That doesn't mean simple melee can stay like it is now, every improvement is welcome. I'm just saying that transforming will bring more abilities than just higher stats and attacks, it adds some gameplay elements. To actually use that, you would have to lower trans powerlevels for some chars as it wouldn't be much fun having to fight for half an hour just to get extended abilities (unbalanced).
Like I said, that would give people a reason to transform other than just higher powerlevel/health and a new attack. But what if someone just joined the server and has to face ssj3 goku?
1) Have it so that he is automatically ssj/ssj2 the moment he/she joins (cvar?)
2) Let them work for it (non-ssj) which might be unfair (no cvar)
3) Just increase some stats and give some [temporary?] powerup per life (slowly regenerating ki/extra % damage/no combo limitations) until he/she reaches the required pl for transformation. (cvar?) NOT when he/she transforms, just as soon as the powerlevel is aquired so they CAN transform and no uber-lame powerups, just something they really need.
Depending on how much the differences in transformations are, you could still give a few benefits to the just-transformed but not as effective as before. This would make things a bit fair (assuming the differences are quit big) but wouldn't hamper gameplay everytime. If you want to combo, you just transform as fast as you can. I'm not sure how this would work in public servers as there will be people who joined from the beginning but never got much powerlevel due to inexperience.
However, some people only use beams and spam as soon as they reach a higher level. To avoid this, have some code that registers the amount of kills used by beams (code could be a cvar, mostly for public servers). The server administrator could have a menu that would allow him to choose the amount of kills by beams before a certain punishment is given. The admin could then select a punishment: removal of all attacks except melee, kiblast, generic beam and senzu/kicked from server/players get damaged or killed (slap/slay). He should also determine the amount of time that will reset the number (deaths will automatically reset?) That would force the beam people to not excessively use beams on certain servers.
Now you may ask why just beams... Melee can be annoying as well but requires a bit more skill than just holding the mouse button and detonating an attack in the middle of a fight. Besides, it doesn't prevent beaming 100%, you just have to mix them.
*kind of a suggestion post, but meh :/*
and what exactly do u call speed? eye candy? graphics?Draylock1 said:
u are lucky the limitations for "nice words" here are low so I cant speak my exact mind, but honestly I dont think much of u now... nor did I think before but now I have more basis.
anyhow to keep it on topic I guess I am one of the few that actually like 1.2, dunno why I guess I'm a freak I like advanced melee, its silly and slow but I think its good, u sometimes forget its the first release they included such an advanced fighting engine, they didnt exactly have many releases to fix and update it, thats what they will hopefully do in 1.3 and 1.4 and in future releases, as for speed! just to clarify for some people (hint hint) - speed is a part of the gameplay and so if u want gameplay speed is in the package, change it keep it I really dont mind, I do not pretend to have an opinion like half of the people here who just post to increase their post count or something, do as u plz with the speed just dont ruin the game!
=\ why dont they have a tornament mode? thats what i'd like to see included.... in a public server, if u dont want ssj's to beamspam, stay normal form and get up to their powerlevel using melee, then when you transform their beams do **** to you. Thats what i do anyway >_> i dont like ssj either.
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That's not really a good arguement in my eyes... I do transform in publics (unless it's a bit too easy already) but I sometimes get quite sick of krillins sitting in the corner of maps spamming their little balls and beamjump away when you even get near them. I'd like to ignore them, but if they keep blasting me I'm getting quite annoyed. That's another reason why I think beamjumping is rather unbalanced right now, it costs no ki and it moves faster than a transformed krillen (with most chars anyway).
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not only that its harder out run a incoming Big Beam because of the teleport delay, and because of the After Images they can't spot where you are teleporting to. In 1.1 the Particles disappeared fast enough so you wouldn't be traceable.
btw
Who is this ^ ?
btw
dixing said:
Who is this ^ ?
The Viking
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SSJ Shin Carl said:
I'm okay with it, if you want to prove i'm wrong. However, I ask of you to do that with a little more respect instead of acting like I am a little infant.
I partially agree with you, however, ESF is not clan based. Most of the people play on public servers, wich do allow transformations.
Beams can be dodged.
Why don't all of you l33ts play on one server, everybody happ?
1.3 "will" be balanced because of more transformations. The transformation system we have now is a placeholder. Most of the stats will be changed.
pl drain will come with ssj2 and ssj3.
Once again, the stats will be changed, so you won't have to play an hour to reach your final form.
Once again, the stats will be changed, so the perfect powerlevels will also be lowered.
Obviously you haven't played 1.2.3, since it's very stable now. If you have played 1.2.3 you're not making a lot of sense, since you're defending 1.1.
And pay more respect to other forum users, Carl.
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I do play 1.2.3, and guess what. It still crashes. Obviously YOU don't play 1.2.3. As I said
3 Releases after a patch, and I still crashes. I wonder why probably cause the team got lazy eh?
Well I wonder if we want to play on a server why don't YOU pay for a server for us to play on? Hmm?
All we need really are 3 Servers in the US, 1 In Midwest, 1 in West, 1 in Eastern. Simple unless you call that buggy crashy server NTH a good server then well meh.
Heres an example of what I got out of 1.2.3
I run a Ded Server for 1.2.3. Guess what IT CRASHES.
I run a Ded Server for 1.1. Guess what it IS UP 24/7. Hmm I wonder why.
ESF is clan based the majority of the people who play that MATTER are in clans, or were in clans, but Oh I wouldn't know that would I since I don't "Play esf" but you play esf much much more than I do so I guess your able to play with everyone right?
1.3 will "not" be balanced.
Also there aren't that many GOOD english servers. All these Euro servers that are O_O Omg EVM SERVERS EVERYONE PANIC. You know your game is ****ed up when there are more Secondary Mod servers up then your own game. Shows how great your mod is.
Too bad not many of us in the US like evm, Its bull****.
*You know what I take that back ADV melee wouldn't be too bad if the animations were like this*
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=53326&page=1&pp=30
3 Releases after a patch, and I still crashes. I wonder why probably cause the team got lazy eh?
Well I wonder if we want to play on a server why don't YOU pay for a server for us to play on? Hmm?
All we need really are 3 Servers in the US, 1 In Midwest, 1 in West, 1 in Eastern. Simple unless you call that buggy crashy server NTH a good server then well meh.
Heres an example of what I got out of 1.2.3
I run a Ded Server for 1.2.3. Guess what IT CRASHES.
I run a Ded Server for 1.1. Guess what it IS UP 24/7. Hmm I wonder why.
ESF is clan based the majority of the people who play that MATTER are in clans, or were in clans, but Oh I wouldn't know that would I since I don't "Play esf" but you play esf much much more than I do so I guess your able to play with everyone right?
1.3 will "not" be balanced.
Also there aren't that many GOOD english servers. All these Euro servers that are O_O Omg EVM SERVERS EVERYONE PANIC. You know your game is ****ed up when there are more Secondary Mod servers up then your own game. Shows how great your mod is.
Too bad not many of us in the US like evm, Its bull****.
*You know what I take that back ADV melee wouldn't be too bad if the animations were like this*
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=53326&page=1&pp=30
The Sinister Minister
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If I see one more post like this, I will close this thread, and the discussion will be over, permanently. If you expect to let threads discussing 1.2 remain open, you had better start sorting these kinds of quarrels outside of the thread. I have about had it with the way these threads have been used.SSJ Shin Carl said:
For one, you have no place to comment on how the coders are working when you cannot even tell what they are doing. Without divulging any of what they are doing, I can assure you, with great confidence, that they are working their asses off. If you don't want to acknowledge that, fine, but don't make comments about them in that tone again. Nobody on these boards is to be disrespected. Not team members, not general members - nobody.
Lastly - if all you are going to suggest is to change things back to what they were upon threat of the mod dieing, then I suggest you cease input on the topic of 1.2 VS 1.1.
If you guys want to be able to discuss this openly, then I suggest you watch how you act.
Last warning. The next such post will warrant thread closure. Any serious disrespect will result in warning(s).
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Beams can *easily* be dodged without a tele delay.Cold Steel said:
I'm not even gonna make a comment on that..
Sounds alright to me
yay
It might not crash as much, but you could have taken out some bugs while you were at it...
/agreesShin Carl said:
Non the less, we are here to find a solution to a problem: gameplay, especially melee.
No, we don't want the exact same... We would like a combination of the two. I'm sure the coders aren't sitting on their hineys doing nothing, but I think they should at least consider some suggestions made in this thread. I have the feeling they're focussing a bit too much on stuff like smooth animations and beatiful looking transformations. Even though that's not a bad thing, not at all, it would be nice to give us an update on how they're going to handle the new melee. I understand you don't want to give away everything by telling everyone, but it would be nice to let us know if we have any chance of having a say in it.
Thank you very much
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Ah finally someone who knows how to speak properly to someone else. I will try to have Mastasurf post something on the news on what we have planned for gameplay. I'll bring it up in tomorrow's meeting.
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WHAT?!?! So we spend time and energy building up our powerlevels so we can ascend beyond SSJ, only to have the PL start decreasing when we transform? Worst. Idea. Ever. That's totally untrue to the show. They didn't get weaker as they stayed in their ascended forms. That's ridiculous. Ki drain would be a much better idea.Cold Steel said:
I agree with Carnage for one or two reasons :
First, the combos were really the ultimate skill move you could do... And no, if you get hit once by a super progamer that didn't mean death at all in 1.1 !! If you move a little bit, the opponent couldn't just get in position for comboing more than 2 or 3times... or hadn't enough ki... and imagine what nice moves you would be able to do with walljump and 1.1 melee !! I have nothing against the swoop without locking - truly NICE - but please speed again !!! The fights in 1.2 are not as exciting as 1.1's..
The advanced melee is quite a nice system I think, great idea !! It makes the game a little fairer, if a noob catch a pgm once, then he has a chance to hit him once before getting killed... nice !! And about the beams, well, nothing to say about that, beams have always been part of the game... and beamspammers too... What of it ? just do not let them charge their finalflash...Noobs exist , learn to live with them !
And i'm not for a beamjump speed decrease !! That's a fast move and melee should be faster, not beamjumping slower please...
And... well, more than 1 transformation... I don't know what will happen....
Like in EVM ? A kidbuu does a kiblast and everyone on the map get killed ? ...
I'm for faster swoop, faster ... - damn how can I say that in english...- yeah see when the people are being pushed by a hit from old melee, they should go faster too... that makes them harder to "combo"... And that's make the combo beautiful...
Yeah and maybe the teleport should use less Ki, because when in normal form, 4-5 teleports without reloading and you're out of ki ... and this damn teleport delay...you can't dodge a kick if you see it at the last second... Boring !
So, when you take Piccolo for example... You run so quickly out of ki, and your swoop is so slow you can't just touch a Goku who is doing teleport-reload-teleport-reload... you try teleport, but doing that twice with swoop and you're out of ki... what the- ?
So for better fights, more ki ! more speed !
And, everyone said that, so I say that too : remove that Lame Ground Combo....
that IS a 6hit-combo right, but without teleports, without skill... >_< noobish trick
This is maybe hard to understand, i'm sorry my english is so bad !!!
Well I try to say faster what I think :
- Faster swoop in normal form, faster teleport, faster fall when being hit by melee for faster and more exciting fights !
-No combo limit
-Keep the advanced melee <= Nice, nice nice !!
-More ki ?
-Problem of powerlevel getting to high with 2 transformations
Thank you all for reading - that must be quite hard...
First, the combos were really the ultimate skill move you could do... And no, if you get hit once by a super progamer that didn't mean death at all in 1.1 !! If you move a little bit, the opponent couldn't just get in position for comboing more than 2 or 3times... or hadn't enough ki... and imagine what nice moves you would be able to do with walljump and 1.1 melee !! I have nothing against the swoop without locking - truly NICE - but please speed again !!! The fights in 1.2 are not as exciting as 1.1's..
The advanced melee is quite a nice system I think, great idea !! It makes the game a little fairer, if a noob catch a pgm once, then he has a chance to hit him once before getting killed... nice !! And about the beams, well, nothing to say about that, beams have always been part of the game... and beamspammers too... What of it ? just do not let them charge their finalflash...Noobs exist , learn to live with them !
And i'm not for a beamjump speed decrease !! That's a fast move and melee should be faster, not beamjumping slower please...
And... well, more than 1 transformation... I don't know what will happen....
Like in EVM ? A kidbuu does a kiblast and everyone on the map get killed ? ...
I'm for faster swoop, faster ... - damn how can I say that in english...- yeah see when the people are being pushed by a hit from old melee, they should go faster too... that makes them harder to "combo"... And that's make the combo beautiful...
Yeah and maybe the teleport should use less Ki, because when in normal form, 4-5 teleports without reloading and you're out of ki ... and this damn teleport delay...you can't dodge a kick if you see it at the last second... Boring !
So, when you take Piccolo for example... You run so quickly out of ki, and your swoop is so slow you can't just touch a Goku who is doing teleport-reload-teleport-reload... you try teleport, but doing that twice with swoop and you're out of ki... what the- ?
So for better fights, more ki ! more speed !
And, everyone said that, so I say that too : remove that Lame Ground Combo....
that IS a 6hit-combo right, but without teleports, without skill... >_< noobish trick
This is maybe hard to understand, i'm sorry my english is so bad !!!
Well I try to say faster what I think :
- Faster swoop in normal form, faster teleport, faster fall when being hit by melee for faster and more exciting fights !
-No combo limit
-Keep the advanced melee <= Nice, nice nice !!
-More ki ?
-Problem of powerlevel getting to high with 2 transformations
Thank you all for reading - that must be quite hard...
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Did I say pl drain ? What i meant was Ki drain. My bad.Ravendust said:
TeeHee
Banned
I thought the highest form of flattery was imitation? Just becuase another team makes an addon, doesn't mean the mod is "****ed up". Maybe people just like the addons because it's something new. If you spent less time badmouthing it while whining about the mod, maybe some of your "critical input" would be looked at.SSJ Shin Carl said:
And cold steel...yeesh, the pl drain scared me to death. Thank God it was a mistake. I was about to **** myself.
It's a wonderful concept, and I like that idea.