ESF comparison thread

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The last discussion thread was closed, but it seems like there is room for some more which is why I want to continue where we left off.

Instead of simply saying 'version x.x is the best' give us your opinion on the current game and what you'd like to see changed and give arguements. Don't get all emotional or force your opinion down someone else's throat, that won't do anyone any good.

The last thread was closed when I mentioned the 'remove basic melee' thread in the suggestions section. I said that people still see simple melee as the core as ESF and how they shouldn't have fixed something that wasn't broken.

Now... because this alot of heated discussions will probably emerge, I'd like to request a mod or anyone privileged to keep an eye on this thread. That doesn't mean you should close it the first time someone is being offensive, threads like this have been closed too often - instead, do what you think is appropriate. That goes for anyone, including me... Thank you
 
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18 views and 0 replies? Time to get this party started.

I preferred 1.2 for a number of reasons, the highly contraversial Adv Melee being one of them. Although it's a bit slow, it does give the DBZ-fight style i'd hoped for. Also, free-swooping beats lock-on hands down. The map quality was improved too and DJ-Ready has come into his own, you really saw the difference. The new explosions were a vast improvements over the fugly bubbles of 1.1, despite having less practical value. They looked like explosions and that's what counts.
 
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Agreed, unfortunately some maps suffer from heavy glitches which is a shame.

Now for gameplay, what version of the esf melee did you enjoy most. Simple melee from 1.1 or the one we have now, also, give us reasons why you like this one better than the other. While you're at it, you may want to think of some suggestions as well.
And what do you think of advanced melee, do you like it or is it simply a welcome addition to the gameplay?
 

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I don't get what the problem is with the current melee. I mean, you still have the old melee available to you, and if you don't like the new melee, don't use it. I personally love it, but it's a bit repetitive, but I mean, you can't get much more in HL1, and I'm fine with that. I think some more complications to the melee in 1.3 (not anything major like a new system, just... mid-combo beams, more combos, stuff the team already wanted to expand on) would make a perfect system.
 
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I like the principle of Adv Melee but it's too slow and the animations sometimes dont correlate, but seeing as it's being fixed for 1.3 I think it'll get more fans.
 
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SuperSaiyaChris said:
I don't get what the problem is with the current melee. I mean, you still have the old melee available to you, and if you don't like the new melee, don't use it.
That's something I DO NOT want in this thread ok? We've all heard that by now and it's a lame excuse. If you don't understand the problem and have nothing useful to say then don't

Ow and saying that we still have the old melee is a load of poo poo, why else would I do this huh?

Ugh, eventually we'll end up with melee anyways... I myself still vote for a total revamp (or at least something very similar) of the old melee, or maybe a cvar vor it. Anyway, in my eyes something has to change. Why? SuperSaiyaChris just mentioned it, it gets repetive. In order to keep a game interesting, you need to have lots of things to be discovered. With the previous melee system, you could basically tihnk of any move and try to perform it. Five or six or even more hits in one combo were quite the achievement and gave self-satisfaction to whoever mastered it. You had something to work for, you had to try and invent moves and attacks but most importantly.. you were able to do that. With the current melee system, either you throw, do 2 or more hits with simple melee or you press arrows. You can hardly connect them into something impressive. The lack of abilty to think of new things became boring and beaming didn't get any better on it either.

Your turn



Darktooth Edit : There is a Cvar for simple melee ( mp_simplemlee 1 ) It disables 1.2 melee and takes you back to 1.1. Joe made the cvar in case people didnt like 1.2 melee.
 
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I agree about the sense of accomplishment with the 5-6 hitters, I never got more than 4 and I had 1.1 for 3 months but even then I felt good about just four hits. If I had to choose between 1.1's awesome basic melee and 1.2's shiny adv melee, i'd say 1.2 for the reason I mentioned earlier.

I think this thread will end the same as those before it, the conclusion's going to be based on everyone's oppinion who participates in the discussion. There is no 'right or wrong' answer. It's preference. In terms of skill, i'd say 1.1, in terms of style i'd go (and still do occasionally) with 1.2.
 

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The combos were the best part about the game. Imo, they alone make 1.1 better then 1.2. It's a shame they won't be brought back in 1.3.
 
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To be honest, i never plated a human in 1.1, but if there is no one to target, i really dont like the fact that the only way you can move fast is by teleporting. The targeting system was rather akward for me, i might of gotten better if i practiced, but I preder free movement of 1.2. I must say tho, the targeting system was a clever idea of fighting.

WALL JUMP. any time any game has this avaiable, i alwaysa use it. it was smart to add this in, a more use for non-flying techniques.

Advacned melee is cool, better when the ping isnt too high, but what i really like is the adv. head-on. The characters clash in a struggle, depending on who wins, a devasting combo is unleashed, very similar to a dbz feeling or a dragon rush, also leave the opponent open for another melee combo or blast combo.
 
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I am not a fan of adv melee in the least, especially the head-ons. They took the skill out of melee. Instead of 'may the best man win', its 'may the man with the fewest randoms win'. Thats just bloddy queer, if you ask me. I have less of a beef with the randoms in regular adv. melee, becuase most people are too dumb to not go left-left/down-down and other predictable patterns so you can usually get most of them.

Other than that, my only problem with adv. melee is you cannot see the arrows sometimes. If youre against the skybox, you have so move the camera so the arrows dont looks glitchy, and if someone shoots you, the white arrows might as well be invisible for all the help they give you.

As you may have guessed, I use simple melee and throw.
 
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I prefer the basic melee. And I'm not talking about about the 1.2 basic melee. It's simple, the fun lies in the speed. I like the fact that hard work paid off. You had to create your own combo's and you needed exact timing to pull them off. If you misclicked once or turned a bit more, it'd fail. That's what I liked about it. If you'd join a server, you could see the enormous difference between a professional player and a newbie/average. Even though there were some cheap tactics to it (fingerlasering all the way like I did at times:rolleyes: ), melee was still needed to finish off the best. As people quickly put teleport to their mouse-scroll or did a multiple teleport via a bind, the game became much faster. And that's what made the old melee awesome. The possibility to do everything. You had tons of ways to fight. You could either out-speed them, lure them into a trap, block/react, set them up, regain a little ki and headon, and alot more.

Getting back to 1.2. What possibilities do we have there? We still have combo's, but they're being done for you. You hit a few arrows and your move is on the way. Yeah, nice combo's, but where's the effort? You have to play via the book. You either throw, or you adv him. Oh, and there's a simple melee fuction, too. What else? That's pretty much it, except for beaming. They've went from a game with alot of possibilities, to one with few. That's a major change. And even though the graphics improved lots, but the gameplay isn't half as good as it was before. Eye-candy doesn't make the game, gameplay does. Not to mention the speed, which got decreased alot. I didn't have much trouble with the speed in 1.1. In fact, those were perfect.

Just my view.
 
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1.1 and 1.2 melee are repetive.(Spelling? :p)

I mean 1.1 was flying, hit a guy, and swoop/teleport to hit him again.

I mean wtf that aint repetive?

The melee of ESF should get a real overhaul, maybe a mix of the two.

Also 1.2 is somewhat of an improvement, only there are still *****es whining about it.(Although I agree 1.2 is slow :x)

I see the guys who constantly whine about 1.2 melee, as Counter-Strike morons whining about shield/awp.(Irritating and useless)
 
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Actually that reminds me, one of the problems of those 5-6 hit combos is if you're on the recieving end it's not much fun being pinballed around just because you didn't block the first hit. If you go 2v1 then you're definatley screwed. There's no 2v1 option for adv melee which makes it fairer.
 
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I would add something nice , maybe every caracter has a specific melee , I mean like 18 with her legs , freeza should have with the tail etc. But when one si grabbed in adv melee by another , a team mate could enterfere in the fight you know . That would be nice , covering the team mate's back, And fighting togheter

:D And i don't get it , what about the charged turbo??
 
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Ravendust said:
Actually that reminds me, one of the problems of those 5-6 hit combos is if you're on the recieving end it's not much fun being pinballed around just because you didn't block the first hit. If you go 2v1 then you're definatley screwed. There's no 2v1 option for adv melee which makes it fairer.
Being pinballed is what added the difficulty to the combos but the distance was indeed sometimes a bit rediculous. Somewhere back, some people suggested that you'll be able to block while being pushed back (using the crosshair). That would also increase difficulty without needing a long knockback distance which pretty much creates a balance if you ask me. That way, there is still skill involved (doing angles to avoid the blocks) but you won't be bouncing around the map either. Of course the knockback would still have to be more like 1.1 than now, faster and further.

One of my other suggestions was that throwing is altered. I proposed the following:

Instead of doing adv melee and then the throwing, you now swoop, hold the left mouse button and you will do a small throw (completely automatic). While this will not cost ki, it's quite riscy because when it is blocked - the attack will reversed completely. That makes throwing hard to do but not useless as it's alot faster as well.

My final problem is the tele delay. Although annoying, I learned to live with it. Now it's not much of an obstacle anymore to me, but in order for the previous suggestions to work (at least the one concerning simple melee), it would probably still have to be decreased by another 50% or something. Tele-ing is one thing that created speed and because most of you agree that 1.2 is (a bit) slow - decreasing the tele delay (and decreasing ki usage for teleing in say... normal and ssj form?) would automatically speed things up.

If you ask me, these suggestions would already improve gameplay quite alot, but I'd like to know other people's opinion on this.
 
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See my only problem with 1.1 melee was if you were on the recieving end of a skilled opponent, it could become first hit wins the fight, i never liked that. With 1.2 hitting people is much much easier after the first hit, if there was no cap on it i could get a 5 -6 chain hit combo easy. Thats why in the past i suggested you slightly lengthen the knockback, so its fairly easy to simple melee combo them but at the same time give the victim the ability to stop the onslaught by letting him block i doubt that it would even be that hard to code, this way you would be more focusing on breaking your opponents block, and this would make the chain combos much more interesting, say if you hit him once, he'll be flying backward then you try to hit him again and he blocks it, then you could teleport to the other side of him and hit him etc, leaving both sides a chance to use their skills in the fight rather than it being totally one sided. With the new stamina included you could make it so when you are out of stamina you cant block during knockback, which i think would be much more fair, then people can chain combo as they like, instead of it being because they got the first hit, it'd be because they'd worked hard on their opponent so they could do that to them. I dunno, i really really want this idea in, hence why i bring it up as much as possible, i wasnt even that good in 1.1, but i can understand the skill involved with chain combo's and its something i would like included in the current system, while at the same time trying to satisfy everyone.

Advanced melee could be tweaked, and i think they will make it much better, but imo they should scrap random arrows, and just make the speed the arrows disappear quicker. Also i would like a way for it to be included during a knockback, not being able to advanced melee during knockback just doesnt make sense to me. I made a suggestion about this not long ago but it was ignored:

myself :rolleyes: said:
I also propose a new advance melee move while your opponent is in knock back from simple melee or hard punching away. At the moment advanced melee is caped while someone is in the knockback stage, i propose that primary fire melee in knockback will innitiate a chase after combo, where the you follow your opponent after knocking them away holding mousebutton 1, when you hit him you start following the enemy in the direction you've hit the opponent in, you are given, say, 5 random arrows (like in a head on), you hit them with every arrow you get right, and miss them with every arrow you get wrong which is up to 4 medium attacks and one heavy attack at the end (this is a measure of how able you are to hit them as they move backwards) . You are moving throughout this process and this costs you a swoop amount of ki, all this time the defendant is powerstruggling (at the expense of ki) to regain control if he does that before you have entered the 5 randoms he strong attacks back with either mouse button, if you the attacker run out of ki, the defender automatically hits you away. Every hit you land makes it harder for the opponent to regain control making his recovery powerstuggle harder to win. If he blocks the initiating punch (knockback blocking suggested above) it only effects his block like simple melee, and justs adds to his recovering powerstruggle bar. If a person is knocked into a wall this way, extra damage is given to the attacker as he pumples the defender into the wall and it no longer costs the attacker ki. Thats pretty much it maybe tweak it here and there, but thats the overall point of the new melee addition i thought up.
See i just think that having knockback capped disrupts the flow of the game, i think it would satisfy most people to remove it, but at the same time balance it too. Im just interested in trying to acknowlegde everyones likes and dislikes, with my ideas im trying to give alteratives to both 1.1 lovers and 1.2 lovers.
 
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HEY what the **** . Sorry all but i'm new here as a member and I whant to ask something please , where do i put the second picture not the avatar :scared:
 

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Ravendust said:
Actually that reminds me, one of the problems of those 5-6 hit combos is if you're on the recieving end it's not much fun being pinballed around just because you didn't block the first hit. If you go 2v1 then you're definatley screwed. There's no 2v1 option for adv melee which makes it fairer.
If you got hit in such a way that the guy that hits you has enough ki for a 5-6 hit combo, you deserved it.
 

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