The People are Losing the Interest for ESF

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HOLY CRAP lithuana IS TAKING OVER DRAGONBALL Z.
 
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I don't think you guys(the impatient 'fans') realise what work it is to develop a mod like this.

For some reason people think it's just to make the old 1.2.3 pretty, what you don't realise is that the team has changed the whole rendering engine to work with better and newer rendering methods.
These new render methods are cool but they require every model that has been created untill now to be recreated and reanimated, which takes a long long time. Same things goes for the maps, they have to be modeled, new map techniques need to be applied and all the effects were recreated because of the new awesome FX system.

Now let's say they've got the assets covered(they don't, it's still an ongoing process), the new system and effects needs new gameplay as the old gameplay doesn't fit this newer graphics.
The old gameplay codes have to be torn apart and (maybe totally) rewritten and new features need to be added which takes alot of time to develop and test. The complete melee and beam system was totally renewed(!)

All this is done by dedicated members of the ESF team which have regular lives of their own, they go to work, they eat, they sleep, they socialise and when they do have extra free time, they work on ESF. Don't expect them to have all the time in the world.

Maybe these facts should be stated somewhere on the website as it seems that many people don't know what effort it takes to take 1.2.3 to the next and final level.

That's my 2 cents anyway(look paragraphs!).
 
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You know, I do understand where everyone is coming from and also that it takes quite a long time to develop something of this detail and size with limited "staff" and of course other pressing things going on in their lives. I am not going to say that this is an easy task nor am i going to "complain" as most of you so eloquently put it when someone does this, but it just hardly seems logical to have this kind of development cycle, I understand entirely losing patience with your audience when they bothersomely ask the same questions over and over again (I've worked retail), but it really does help to have some kind of idea aside from a "when its done its done mentality".

It wouldn't be destructive to at least release a pre-complete build of the game, regardless of the amount of content because as we all know, playing a demo or anything of that sort really does help how much hype/faith we have in a title, it would also prepare for any bugs on different systems you may encounter preemptively instead of when released finding out that some systems just simply cannot run the title because of random conflicts not yet understood or discovered.

That's not necessarily the only reason to do so, when releasing in this manner you will also get a bigger influx of traffic and most likely get the attention of skilled modders that are unaware of the mod (i know hard to believe but possible). I know what i've said has been said before probably many, many times, and i do know about people not being happy with a prefinal release, but if everything is outlined and known flaws are stated then negativity generated will most likely only pertain to said flaws, you're never going to make your entire audience happy with any decision you make, but it does seem like a fairly big portion would like a release of this kind, and frankly, I wouldn't see the harm in doing so. Then again, I'm not making the game, this has just been on my mind for a while and if you don't agree that's entirely fine, just thought i would share it with everyone and get a conversation going is all.
Broke it up a bit.

On the note of a release. Again, the last time a release was made, all people did was complain. You get far more:

'your game sucks' or 'make this more like this' then you get legitimate feedback from the community such as 'I found a bug while doing x attack while the other player was doing x with x amount of players on x map (or any sort of variation on this) '.

The previous release proves this. As far as I am aware, it has not yet been said if there would be phased releases or not. I've also noticed that most of the people that are complaining about the development time are simply those who have joined in the last 2 years or less, while we have members here, still waiting to play, who have been around for a fair deal longer, yet you don't see (all) of them begging and crying for release.

Let the team take their time, because we all (those that were here for OB) know what happens when an unfinished build of the game is released.



EDIT

Just wanted to quote to make the point stick...

I don't think you guys(the impatient 'fans') realise what work it is to develop a mod like this.

For some reason people think it's just to make the old 1.2.3 pretty, what you don't realise is that the team has changed the whole rendering engine to work with better and newer rendering methods.
These new render methods are cool but they require every model that has been created untill now to be recreated and reanimated, which takes a long long time. Same things goes for the maps, they have to be modeled, new map techniques need to be applied and all the effects were recreated because of the new awesome FX system.

Now let's say they've got the assets covered(they don't, it's still an ongoing process), the new system and effects needs new gameplay as the old gameplay doesn't fit this newer graphics.
The old gameplay codes have to be torn apart and (maybe totally) rewritten and new features need to be added which takes alot of time to develop and test. The complete melee and beam system was totally renewed(!)

All this is done by dedicated members of the ESF team which have regular lives of their own, they go to work, they eat, they sleep, they socialise and when they do have extra free time, they work on ESF. Don't expect them to have all the time in the world.

Maybe these facts should be stated somewhere on the website as it seems that many people don't know what effort it takes to take 1.2.3 to the next and final level.

That's my 2 cents anyway(look paragraphs!).
^^ This...
 
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I thought the gameplay was pretty much done, unless something new came up.
 
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Emo the dev team doesnt have a "when its done" mentality. There are internal deadlines for things. But they are not released to the public, because if they cant be kept them there would be a shitstorm.
 
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Emo the dev team doesnt have a "when its done" mentality. There are internal deadlines for things. But they are not released to the public, because if they cant be kept them there would be a shitstorm.
Ooh pics!
Never seen such a storm just yet ^^
 
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South Africa top 3!! :fight:

People will forever complain about something. Seriously, you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

The Team needs to stop defending themselves. Hell, ultimately the people who have nothing better to do than sit around and wait for this game to be released need to get hobbies.. or something!
 
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Personally I could never loose interest in ESF.
It really had a huge impact on me when I was younger. I've had many hours of fun with it.
I truly love that they are putting out POTW each week. Those screenshots remind me of when I first got my hands on this mod 5 or 6 years ago. And I find myself feeling the same kind of, chidlike wonder and fun.


And I'm very grateful to the Developers for not quitting, heck you could say I even admire them.
I'll wait however long it takes for ESF:F.

Eh, well now I feel slightly embaressed, but I felt like I should share my feelings on the subject.
 
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yo whats up mobius
 
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Hi everyone I'm from Venezuela, if true, people do not play ESF.

The reasons may be:

1) The game requires skill
2) It takes practice more than any game.
3) Few servers are online

For these reasons I opened a new server esf, which post in a forum "new server by ESF joorir" to try to revive this game and promoting it to friends, encouraging them to compete and let Counter Striker. I think it is very easy, compared to the ESF.

One way to revive the game is posting videos of battles, tournaments and meetingswith tutorials explaining the basics. Also, you can do more advertising on social networks and forums such as this, for people to look up the word ESF, will find it very easily.

This text was translated by google (Spanish-English), sorry for grammatical errors.
 
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I don't know, quite a few mods get this far and just don't see the light of day. I'm fearful (possibly over nothing), that this mod might go the way of Chinese Democracy or Duke Nukem Forever where it takes a very long time to finish and everyone hates it for not being what they expected that's all. For the post earlier, i apologize lol, but i just figured i would throw everything in there to make a few points that had crossed my mind over time.

I also will wait for the game to be released, because what else am i going to do about it? Development isn't in my hands so i can't really sway anything, just wanted to see what everyone thought haha. I'm really interested in this becuase zeq2 just isn't doing it for me, its pretty good but the one thing that counts is the melee system and frankly zeq2's melee system just isn't very "fun" to use, u may as well shoot ki blasts the whole time, much funner.
 
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I agree with my fellow South African Raeku. Some people truly don't have lives. If they want the game to come out so bad why don't they learn how to program or do 3D modelling and develop their own game in their spare time. 99.9% of mods have die out, but I honestly don't see this happening to ESF at all.

The team has come way too far and the support and fan base is huge even though it doesn't seem like it. There are countless fans waiting for this mod to be released even though they aren't on the forums or seen in the public eye...

I'd love to help out with the mod too bad my knowledge and skills aren't good enough to make the slightest difference, I would cause more damage than good, even though I truly wish I could help out :/
 
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ESF won't die, were still consistently working on stuff for the mod. At this point for example, I'm focusing on helping Darktooth with animation stuff - mainly adjusting character bone weights to get the smoothest mesh deformations our game can provide on character models. Its a very tedious and time consuming process, but we've got several character to a point we are happy with. Darktooth also has characters that need animations at this point too, which is also time consuming, adding his animation library for basic animations to each character, adjusting them for various alterations per character (example Frieza's tail, piccolos cape/antenna, etc...) as well as doing everyones custom animations ( beam attacks, etc...). Then there are the various bug fixes coders are working on, shader tweaks, etc.

Basically, all this going on atm is what I prefer to call the "polishing" phase. while we could release something probably with what we got, we want to give you all something worthwhile. so patience people, we will get there in due time.
 
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These kids are just impatient. They get all impatient when people like me have been waiting a great time for this. I mean I maybe no 2002 but I am right close to it. If you get pissy from having to wait a few weeks to see a new POTW then you need to stand in my shoes and look how long I have waited without complaint.
 
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you know ... i was really likin that whole demo idea 0o. and also, it's not hard for the game to b advertised when its done. ESF original got ppl to join from scratch .... and i know plenty of newcomers will come once game is released. i myself advertised a bit and a lot of ppl showed up in the forums .... but of course newcomers dont care about a game not released yet. im sure the numbers will spike up and stay up once the game is released ... but it would still b nice to have something 0o IE the Demo version u guys were talkin about seemed pretty legit to me. well anyways. good luck with the game team, it looks great so far.

and please ... quit using flames and "impatient fuks" and quit using excuses like "well the old beta flopped and so we should never try anything like that ever again" .... it's just silly ... absolutely ridiculously silly and immature. u dont quit tryin to climb mount everest just because u fail the first time ... u try again and hopefully u do better this time (as u are more prepared for what is going to come) u guys forget the old beta was introduced when the game ALREADY HAD a huge base fan playing it (and they were upset cuz prev version was way better, and graphics werent much better) .... right now there is next to no one. heck definitely no one on the US servers ><

dont forget, ESF started in Alphas .... no one complained when that was buggy and stuff ... ESF final (due to teh long time its been in development and lack of player base in the old one now) now has a fresh start ... havin Alphas for it wouldn't b such a bad idea, if u dont wanna open it to the public ... have it as a closed alpha testing that we can sign into for a chance to play. and u make sure everyone that signs up KNOWS that there is going to b bugs and problems and their job is to help screen them out and fix them.

well anyways, CIAO
 
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You lot suck.

By that I mean the entire community including the developers.

Sub already explained it.

Now, personally I'm a fan of waiting for the complete game but I don't come claiming you never received any positive critic when your first beta was out. People clearly had much to say and maybe you saw all the cons overwhelming the pros simply because there was a lot to work on; if the progress, which you evidently claim is there, is existent then it should have a lot of flipping improvements that are worth showing by now. Let me remind you that you're making this game for not only yourself but for a bunch of people and not everybody is happy with the game's mechanics.. you plan to release them as you please without listening to the actual feedback, whether they're not brown-nosing your asses and actually being concerned about the actual gameplay you shouldn't tend to ignore them. The time it takes to make this game is alone a con , a con you will and have already lost a ton of players on. Of course, it's too bad for them .. but keep this up and then I have a piece of advice: don't expect too much. By saying you plan to do it as you please is everytime there's a suggestion you're either way too far into the coding to change stuff or you turn the ideas down. Don't come and say no, there's absolutely no reason to lie. You'd lie even more if you say all the suggestions were bad.

Now as every other post with actual critic or feedback it's either thrown out in the trash can or set aside by a dogmatic comment.

The players that are still out there enjoying your old version would actually be players that could give your precious 1.3 so much care and time; I have said this, but no offence, the team doesn't consist of the best bunch of players out there (skill-wise). I know that for a fact because I know which players have made their names out there, both diplomatically and skill wise from several players that have played years and years, the same names tend to go in flow. It might be dogmatism and very one-sided when I say this but letting some proper players, no even players have another beta/demo ould give you plenty of feedback you can work on and take into account in order to make the game good for everyone. After all, this time's goal is to make it entertaining for everyone right? "more noob-friendly" we are all excited about the results, I hope this is not taken as any offence. There are atm 3 players that are considered above mediocre in the team, and one professional that barely plays. There needs to be more of these people in the game to leave a word in.
 
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You lot suck.

By that I mean the entire community including the developers.

Sub already explained it.

Now, personally I'm a fan of waiting for the complete game but I don't come claiming you never received any positive critic when your first beta was out. People clearly had much to say and maybe you saw all the cons overwhelming the pros simply because there was a lot to work on; if the progress, which you evidently claim is there, is existent then it should have a lot of flipping improvements that are worth showing by now. Let me remind you that you're making this game for not only yourself but for a bunch of people and not everybody is happy with the game's mechanics.. you plan to release them as you please without listening to the actual feedback, whether they're not brown-nosing your asses and actually being concerned about the actual gameplay you shouldn't tend to ignore them. The time it takes to make this game is alone a con , a con you will and have already lost a ton of players on. Of course, it's too bad for them .. but keep this up and then I have a piece of advice: don't expect too much. By saying you plan to do it as you please is everytime there's a suggestion you're either way too far into the coding to change stuff or you turn the ideas down. Don't come and say no, there's absolutely no reason to lie. You'd lie even more if you say all the suggestions were bad.

Now as every other post with actual critic or feedback it's either thrown out in the trash can or set aside by a dogmatic comment.

The players that are still out there enjoying your old version would actually be players that could give your precious 1.3 so much care and time; I have said this, but no offence, the team doesn't consist of the best bunch of players out there (skill-wise). I know that for a fact because I know which players have made their names out there, both diplomatically and skill wise from several players that have played years and years, the same names tend to go in flow. It might be dogmatism and very one-sided when I say this but letting some proper players, no even players have another beta/demo ould give you plenty of feedback you can work on and take into account in order to make the game good for everyone. After all, this time's goal is to make it entertaining for everyone right? "more noob-friendly" we are all excited about the results, I hope this is not taken as any offence. There are atm 3 players that are considered above mediocre in the team, and one professional that barely plays. There needs to be more of these people in the game to leave a word in.

yeah i found out that suggestions this stage in the game don't really count for anything anymore. but i do think its a great idea to let the ESF Elite players have a go at the game before you release a "final" version. they might have suggestions to make it a lot better as well, (and no i dont consider myself ESF Elite, though i wasnt the worst when i played back in the day) like i thought it would've been cool to have some kind of counter zanzoken technique. like if u see someone comin at u and u spot it, you can hit the direction they are and the counter button to evade the attack, or perhaps even chain it (gives more depth to the whole paper rock scissor mechanic) of course whoever was going in there for the combo doesnt get their combo power removed, so they can try it again. but anyways, i dont think they are giong to change any fo the mechanics until the game is actually released and ppl start saying to change stuff around .... but then again the release is supposed to be "FINAL" meaning they wont change it .... which is just going to b down right shitty. (do you guys kinda see why having a self proclaimed "final" release is bad? no changes? can b bad for everyone)

this is still a reason i think its good to have some sort of release before hand .... so we actually know the system and the feel and THEN can tell you what would b some good improvements (kinda like the original esf?!?!?)

peeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaacccccceeeee
 
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