Official melee suggestion thread

[Xenogias]

Basically I no longer want to see the quick hit we have right now
that just sends you into a wall.

But heres my idea.
If you and your opponent are Holding secondary attack button.
While coming at each other. There will be fists flying all over the
place and kicks. At the same time it'd be cool to see the characters
move side to side/forward and backward while the melee struggle
takes place. Who ever wins the melee struggle will do that quick
hit and throw their opponent down/up/left/right anywhere.
You must also hit primary/secondary fire button repeatadly to
win. But if your weaker all you need to do is hold down the
secondary attack button to automatically hit back w/o putting too
much energy into it. giving the strongest a disadvantage at the
same time giving you just a bit of advantage.

If you block while your opponent comes at you with melee
there should be a melee - to - block struggle where you gotta try
to block all of your opponents hits by repeatadly hitting primary
and secondary attack buttons. If the guy blocking the melee struggle
wins he doesn't hurt you instead he uses ki to push you back
(Ever seen that attack where they just used some kind of
"invisible force" to push their enemies back?) Like that. But if you
get pushed into the wall/floor/ceiling you'll get hurt.

But if you do not hold secondary attack button and instead press
it at just the right moment your enemy will be thrown back. Unless
your enemy was blocking all along.

 

[Vega Nite]

I dont get why so many people like the melee so much cause I think its nothing like what it is in DBZ. In DBZ they dont fly around trying to hit each other just once to knock them into the ground or a mountain or whatever. DBZ is a martial arts action based cartoon with the thousand year old belief of controling your ki to make special energy attacks and to enhance your strength. ESF has the ki part down but not the martial arts melee part. The smashing part is cool but it shouldn't be the only thing you can do.

I think that when you fight in melee you can move around but not so fast and you throw various punches and kicks and if your punch collides with your opponents punch then it counts like a block. And when you punch and kick you move forward just a bit. But if you hit your opponent, say 7 times in a row, you get the chance to smash them on the 8th hit when they are stunned. When they are stunned they should be stunned for about 2 or 3 seconds. During those seconds you can control how much ki you put into the smash. If you do it right away with little ki then you can smash them up to 3 times. If you put some ki into you can smash them 2 times. But if you put a lot of ki into it you can smash them only once unless they hit something like the ground or a wall then you can smash them twice. But if they go up then fall down and hit the ground you can't smash them again till they are stunned. But it should do less damage then it does. Also if you are far away from your opponent you can still charge at them and smash them.

As for power battles in melee it should be more skill based not button smashing or some random rock, paper, scissors system. It should use skill of how much power you have left and how you use it combined with your boost to win. So when two people get into a power battle it basically depends on how much power you have left aswell as how much you use your boost system to put more power into your attack. The more power you put into the attack also affects it of course aswell as how powerful the attack is. So say this, you and someone else get into a power battle and you have put half power into your attack while they have put 3/4 power into their attack. Your attack is the final flash and their's is the kamehameha. So your attack is slighlty weaker and begins to get pushed back. So you turn on your power boost and begin pushing theirs back. They do the same and yours begins to get pushed back and your starting to run lowe on power so you turn yours off. You let it get pushed a bit closer while your power goes down slower and theirs goes down faster. Finally you boost again cause its getting closer . Since they left theirs on longer they begin runing out of power and fiannly runout and cant hold the attack and your attack pushes back and hits them. But there may need to be something put into ESF so that you can snse some how if they are boosting.

 

[Savage]

i just thought of somthing... maybe if u block u should still take dmg from melee but not as much? well it sounds good to me...

 

[Vega Nite]

Just one more thing to add to my previous idea. I think that there should be a grapple system so that you can come up to some one and grab them and throw them into something. And whatever you point at you grab. But you can only grab limbs, the head, and the body. If you grab a limb you can spin them around and throww them into something. If you grab them by the head you can headbut them or throw them or smash their face into the ground. If you grab their body (you can grab them from the front or the back) you can fly around with them or fly up and throw them or fly down and throw them into the ground. It would really add some spunk to melee.

 

[Pcjoe]

Lol, sorry guys, i forgot about this thread. Give me acouple hours to read it

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

I like the idea vega, except for the power level issue. Piccolo and Cell, not to mention Frieza and Buu, should be level with everyone else in terms of melee. They already lack the sufficient powerlevels to beam struggle, and if they can't melee, there's almost nothing left. In fact, I think Piccolo and Cell should naturally have an advantage in any kind of "melee struggle" as they are tactical characters who use lots of techniques, as opposed to heavy hitters.

For simplicity though I think the melee system should stay 1 button, 2 at the max. Perhaps one for a flurry of kicks/punches and another for grappling/smashing. I still think swooping at somebody from the side or above/below should smash them, but it'd be nice if you could grapple someone from behind and just break them heh.

 

[Dark_Lord]

ok i say we make it simple for the guys to be able to make the melee attack.lets just have 2 melee attacks one is the swoop and the other can be the punch kick block combo, thing is it should happen wehn one of the players attack so if the other player was in this situation he has no choice but either block all the attacks or just fight back. it should be like a power struggle but it should last i mean the power struggles with a kamehameha ends pretty quick, of course no button bashing is envolved just two buttons the block button just hold it but it will depend on ur pL and the attack should just be trying to press the mouse buttons very fast. the swoop can be added if the target is far away then the attack can happen and the teleport idea is pretty neat idea but not alot of ki should be used. oh sorry, when the fight starts the power struggle begins ofcourse players have a choice of to either JUST block or the attack block combination by the mouse,of course it all depends on pL and when the opponent is losing the the punchs and kicks slow down just for an effect then then POW like the swoop attack the opponenet should fly away but the damage should be greater. but i mean come one u guys have to gather the ideas of every one and implement this attack move.
thank you

 

[Dark_Lord]

hey wouldnt it also be neat if u had enough PL u could take on three at the same time!!!wht do u think its good and sounds cool enough to make u feel like vegeta

 

[NightSage]

Originally posted by KuBaN
Basically in my idea, the melee struggle (along with general fighting) is about getting an enemy off guard.
The idea below is a lot like everyone elses, but I did think of most of this myself. Controls are default unless otherwise is said.

Seperate punch/kick buttons must be implemented. Each can be held and charged just like ki moves (a punch/kick charge animation please). The longer it is charged the more damage you'll do if you land a hit. A fully charged hit leaves the opponent stunned for not even a second. Only a STUNNED enemy will be "flung" across the screen if he is hit, like the melee does now.
Punching is generally more powerful, but kick has a longer range. (There is a downside to charging, just read on). Punch and kick animations would have to be animated even if the hit doesn't register. Maybe have seperate animations and delay time for a "miss".
A grab button must be implemented as well (Note: The general grab idea is Sierra Sonic's. Check the forums). They say "attaching models" is very hard, but I'm sure you guys can do it, I have faith. Grabbing has many uses that will be explained later.

General Melee:

You see someone and target them (lets say SHIFT), swoop at them (SHIFT again), and can either punch (LCLICK), or kick (RCLICK)

IF:

1) The enemy attacks as well, and both players hit, there is a chance that either both players hit each other (Vegeta and Goku punching each other in the jaw in Majin Buu Saga, for example) and both take damage, STUNNED momentarily, or a Melee Struggle starts. (More discussed on melee struggles later)

2) The enemy attacks as well, and either player misses, that player is STUNNED (punch/kick animation stuck in motion). How long depends on how long the punch or kick is charged (<- DOWNSIDE!).

3) The enemy blocks, he still takes a MINOR bit of damage if the attack is charged, but the attacker is left STUNNED, and the blocker can grab the enemies foot or fist which gives you almost a second to either punch, kick, Ki, or grab again (which would throw them in the direction you are facing).

Melee Struggle:

As almost everyone who was suggested melee struggles has said, the flurry of fists and feet and either player blocking and dodgin are displayed as the PowerStruggle meter comes up. Where the indicator starts off is dependant on the difference between the charge length of both attacks, and the players PL difference. You MUST HOLD the button you held that started the MS (Melee Struggle) in order to stay in the battle. Turbo can be turned on for the usual effect. Both characters are LOCKED in battle, meaning they can't be hit or be interupted.

IF Player X is winning, the battle moves (meaning they both float in a direction) in the winners direction (Up, Down, Left, Right, etc.). This way the winner can try to lead his opponent into a wall. IF the loser hits a wall the struggle stops leaving him STUNNED, giving the winner a chance to land a good hit. Be careful how long you charge this hit, because eventually the enemy gets his control back and can move out of the way. When the indicator is in the middle (neither player is winning) the flash that appears when a hit is landed is played more intensely (more, bigger, etc.).

IF Player X wins the struggle, the punch or kick that initially started the struggle will take effect (the charge of the attack isn't kept, it does a medium punch/kick that leaves the loser STUNNED, from there you can do what you wish.)

Extras:

Grabbing from behind instead of in front while someone is prone after attacking will... grab on from behind. Pretty self-explanitory, but if you don't understand, read Sierra Sonic's post in Beta 1 section (might be in Suggestions).

EDIT: Kick would do more damage, with the advantage of range, but Punch is much faster (thank you sm0ke for the tip).

Love this idea, only thing against it I can think of is aside from the problem of attaching models, any slight bit of lag could cause odd jerky movements and worse your character might sort of get stuck. But other then that great freaking idea :yes: Reminds me a little of an idea I had for hyper melee (which pretty much is melee struggle) but what I mentioned (a while back) is sort of automated and this is a more evolving and interesting way to melee struggle.

Also wanted to mention that it might be a good idea for instead of the models attaching to each other they sort of have a limited radius of movement around each other. Locking on is for melee only right? But it you should be able to only lock on at a certain distance, i.e. if one person moves to far away from you automatically detarget, the range for lock on should be short since melee attacks have short distance. Also it may be nice for lock on to sort of be a sphere/grid so that you can lock onto and respond to more then one foe whom is around you and attacking, you would just press a button to switch targets maybe. Not to mention that it may be good for your character's movements to correspond to your foes (like in shinobi for ps2).

Another think I wanted to mention, is about the camera control you should be able to pan the camera around your character so that you can respond to attacks from all directions, as well as being able to press back and have your character change the direction it is facing. Like you press back and instead of backpedaling you turn around. Sorry for the long post but I just wanted to mention that

 

[SSJ4boneVegeta]

This idea was inspired by "hyper dimension" on the super nes.

Now say perhaps some flyies up to me and hits me. In my melee version, you would have but 3/4 of a sec to respond or whatever deem fit, to right click (or your attack button, also you have to be on melee attack) and by doing this you activated a fast paste fighting.

Either you can put a toggle bar to see who wins the fast action fighting.

Or you can this sequence to enter in a certain period of time (like s,d,leftclick,w) to see if you get a successful attack or block the faster time wins the block or attack. And there is more than one chance though. Maybe you have to do it 4 or 6 times to make it fair a bit. The sequence most come out at random too, so people don't memorize,lol.

Lastly you can also have the person anticipate the button the attacker pressed, between three buttons to make the odds pretty good. Once that's done the attacker switches places with the defender and vice verse. and they do that for 4 or 6 times to make it far (2 or 3 each).

So who ever is encharged for this post reply , i want some comments about how you can;t do so and so.

 

[SeNoR]

Originally posted by Scruffie
I don't know why everyone thinks block should hurt someone.

It should take a tiny tiny bit off of Ki.

i think it should depend upon the PLs of the two players, say... you take the attackers PL, and if its higher find the difference and divide by two then minus that much ki from the blocker



....

oh wait you guys dont do actual values for ki KL:Y%#&*T:VDXJKFGHEKS why not i dont know... goku (not-ssj) at 20 mill would have alot more ki than goku at 1 mill
and speed should depend on PL too, maybe put a cap or something so it doesnt get rediculous

 

[Vega Nite]

Here is a new better idea of mine with a poll.

http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17030

 

[Pommy]

my sugguestion is to have different types of melee attacks not just one melee. like different ways to use melee. and i would just say do whatever other sugguestions in place for the different melee attacks or something.

 

[Godzilla]

The worst problem is that the fighters have no movement, you should make them for example, Goxu extend his arm or leg and hit. And if the PL is too high just make a spark, you know a flashing.
Another thing is too make the left mouse button just too dodge from the hits.

Wish this have helped!

 

[Abe Froman]

Blocking and counter is unbalanced. Period. Example; this guy called VoodooCowboy was meleeing me all around the map. I got a few in, but he was much better. One time, he was chargin ki, and I was almost on top of him with a swoop. I swear when I was in melee distance, he went right from charging to block to counter.

Now that is skill, I will give him that. You need fast reflexes to pull that off. But the fact he can do that kind of irked me. So he offered to teach me how to avoid counters. He had me block, then he would try to melee me. Guess what? I countered him every single time. And it was easy.

He was trying to teleport away after he meleed me, which is what I do when I get blocked. But sometimes, for some reason, it does not work. And even when it does, All that happens is he loses 2 health, a small bit of ki, and we are back to square one, him blocking until my teleporting away doesn't work out.

This current block\counter system takes all the skill out of the melee system. Someone who has never played before can out melee all but the extremely skilled(those who can tele behind, turn, then swoop b4 the guy turns around). And as proof, go into any server and count the block spammers, or the guys who start block spamming when they see they are better than you. You will count most likely at least half.

You can't really blame them though. Block\countering is so easy it's the one thing that beginners can latch on to that saves them from learning how to melee for real. By now we have guys that are so good at melee, I can't even hope to be as good as them, so i can imagne what the newbs must feel like when they first start playing, so the temptaion of block spam is bolstered by sheer desparation.

So what is the point of this long winded analysis? I have a (hopefully) good idea on how to balance it. Add knockback even when melee is blocked.

Here's the plan; say Mr. Goku Pants is block spamming, and Mr. Vegeta Pants is swooping. VP hits GP and GP blocks it. GP gets knocked back 1/4 distance that an unblocked melee does, but can retain his block for the entire duration. Because Mr. GP is being knocked back, he only has a BRIEF period of time to retaliate with a counter, and if he tries and misses, his guard is down and Mr. VP can tele\swoop and "put the biff in", as the Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin would say. This would force block spammers to:

A) Get better at REAL melee
or
B) Aquire REAL skill in countering.

When I see two skilled players meleeing, it's a beautiful thing. they are teleporting around, swooping, charging, it's actually interesting. When I see a skilled player and a block spammer going at it, it's boring, frustrating, and the skilled guy ends up leaving the server, to the jeers of "N3Wb LOLZ!!!111!" from sed block spammer. I would much rather have my ass handed to me from a guy with skills than from some 10 year old (no offense to 10 year olds who can melee for real) who can't bother himself with actually getting good at the game.

This idea would probably have to be tweaked, so feel free to add your own opinions.

And remember; flame unto others as you would have them flame unto you.

*whips out fire extinguisher*

 

[ElementalDragon]

Kinda late, but i think there should also be a way to disable the melee system completely. You know, like if you wanna try to host a beam/PS server type thingy. I admit, the melee system is great, but you always have at least 1 or 2 people in the server that LOVE it too much and don't stop using it.

 

[Ultima2_freeze]

Laff...You don't need fast reflexes...you need a low ping

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

The current melee system is absolutely fine for what it is supposed to be, we just need some kind of stun or knockback when you're hit while blocking, so that it would be more difficult to counter, and you could not be countered so quickly.

 

[imported_mysticssjgoku4]

i like melee the way it is right now, but theres too many people out there who get mad because they cant use it.

melee is ok, but just needs more affects and more stuff added to it, mabe like a knockout hit by summoning enough energy.

 

[Noone]

Well this is my idea for mele

1) how would you get into a mele strugle

a)first I think if 2 players are swooping at each other and both holding down mele thay should go into a strugle

b)2 if one person has mele selected and he blocks a mele attack then meles a short time after that and he would have hit or it would have benn blocked they should go into a strugle

c)if both players try to mele at about the same time strugle

2) how would mele strugles work

a)first the people would look like they are punching really fast and blocking it all

b)there should be a strugle bar split into 3 sections one wining one loseing and one no ones wining

c) it would work like this you both start in the middle section the puches should start flying and nobody would get hurt as the bar gets into the other sections the person loseing should start to take damge (not to much and it would get faster as you lose more)when a set limit of damage is reached (say maby 15% of max hitpoints and don't think this is to much if you lose a ps you probably die)

d)2 things happen when the max hippoint lose is reached one the winning player delivers a hard kick (just like the show) normal damage no knockback then hits the loser into the ground (normal mele attack)

what do you think any imput would help