New game mode: Boss Mode

[BlueSaiyan]

TBH I find the OP's "in-depth" details terrible. For the game mode to work and not be underplayed, it should be something much less generic as limiting the people count to 6, giving HP for kills and restricting awesome game features. Perhaps I'll do my take on how the Boss Mode should be later on.

Yeah, that's exactly what I want to hear. I want to hear how you'd tweak it... Seriously, I don't know how many times I've stated that I'd love to hear other peoples creative inputs, instead of just "sux" or "like it"....

I want people to get engaged here.

But what exactly did you mean that I was "restricting awesome game features"? We need this mode to be balanced, just keep that in mind. Also, you can play any other game mode and transform all day if you want to... I think people can do without trasnformations for ONE game mode (except ofcourse the boss who starts off transformed). We want something unique here, otherwise we'll just end up with nothing.

I remember playing Starwars Battlefront 2, and there was a mode called Hero mode which everybody loved.. Basically everyone with blasters all fighting 1 Jedi with force powers. It was a lot of fun. This is akin to that, but DBZ style.

Would you prefer that the boss also get 10hp per round AND get 20hp per kill? Gotta keep it balanced remember.... so let's see if you can put your money where your mouth is here and come up with some good ideas, otherwise it's just tough talk.

I HAVE AN IDEA!! How about instead of the boss getting 150hp and limiting the players to 6, we can make it scale!! So say the boss gets 12hp per player who joins the other side... so if it's 1v1 he'd have 112hp, if it's 2v1 he'd have 124, 3v1 he'd have 136 etc.... (and he's the only one transformed don't forget that)

 

[hleV]

ESFF's classes are gonna be balanced. It means that however strong the normal characters are, the boss needs to be stronger by certain amount. Making players fight 1 on 1, disabling transformations, not allowing the same character to be picked by multiple people is the wrong way to balance things. Keep in mind that it's perfectly possible to make the boss stronger or weaker real-time, according to the situation (player count, power, forms, etc.).

 

[BlueSaiyan]

ESFF's classes are gonna be balanced. It means that however strong the normal characters are, the boss needs to be stronger by certain amount. Making players fight 1 on 1, disabling transformations, not allowing the same character to be picked by multiple people is the wrong way to balance things. Keep in mind that it's perfectly possible to make the boss stronger or weaker real-time, according to the situation (player count, power, forms, etc.).

Yeah, I agree we can scale health in real time according to player numbers, but in terms of transformations.... once a player transforms and it's 1v1 versus the boss, suddenly the boss becomes exponentially weaker versus the other fighters. I wanted the boss to have an advantage that even an average player would be able to benefit from when fighting a more skilled opponent.

In terms of limiting same characters I do that partially for aesthetic reasons, but there's a deeper reason than that... What's so special about Goku or Vegeta if every player on the server can pick him? I think that just for this game mode in particular that it'd be okay to limit 1 hero/villain per player. Variety is the spice of life! Try a new hero or villain and feel unique! Become immersed. *AND REMEMBER YOU CHOOSE NEW ONES DURING THE NEXT ROUND!*

I want other people to be able to experience the real immersive DBZ feel in that way.

How would you feel about henchmen? We could make it so that boss gets 1 henchman per every 5 'Lesser Fighters' against him. And instead of the boss/henchman being forced to change every minute, they could merely make it a Tag Out option with a COOLDOWN of 30 seconds. I dunno, discuss.

 

[hleV]

Yeah, I agree we can scale health in real time according to player numbers, but in terms of transformations.... once a player transforms and it's 1v1 versus the boss, suddenly the boss becomes exponentially weaker versus the other fighters. I wanted the boss to have an advantage that even an average player would be able to benefit from when fighting a more skilled opponent.

I still don't get how are you finding such "problems". It's not like there's only one way to balance things. Not only health can be altered... And 1v1? It's a boss fight. It doesn't make sense to fight a boss 1v1, unless there are no other players in the server. And even then the boss doesn't have to be of equal strength to a normal character.

In terms of limiting same characters I do that partially for aesthetic reasons, but there's a deeper reason than that... What's so special about Goku or Vegeta if every player on the server can pick him? I think that just for this game mode in particular that it'd be okay to limit 1 hero/villain per player. Variety is the spice of life! Try a new hero or villain and feel unique! Become immersed. *AND REMEMBER YOU CHOOSE NEW ONES DURING THE NEXT ROUND!*

I want other people to be able to experience the real immersive DBZ feel in that way.

There's a server CVAR even in ESF 1.2.3 which can limit classes to whatever amount. It's not used, meaning people like to play whatever character they want, not whatever character is available. Enforcing something is wrong.

How would you feel about henchmen? We could make it so that boss gets 1 henchman per every 5 'Lesser Fighters' against him. And instead of the boss/henchman being forced to change every minute, they could merely make it a Tag Out option with a COOLDOWN of 30 seconds. I dunno, discuss.

That would just make it team vs team, and such gamemode already exists. It should only be considered if balancing "one vs all" happens to be too hard/impossible, which shouldn't be the case.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

I still don't get how are you finding such "problems". It's not like there's only one way to balance things. Not only health can be altered... And 1v1? It's a boss fight. It doesn't make sense to fight a boss 1v1, unless there are no other players in the server. And even then the boss doesn't have to be of equal strength to a normal character.


There's a server CVAR even in ESF 1.2.3 which can limit classes to whatever amount. It's not used, meaning people like to play whatever character they want, not whatever character is available. Enforcing something is wrong.


That would just make it team vs team, and such gamemode already exists. It should only be considered if balancing "one vs all" happens to be too hard/impossible, which shouldn't be the case.

So you say things like "It's not like there's only one way to balance things." yet you offer no examples or solutions? I challenge you to come up with a method that incorporates transformations AND balance in a mode where its basically 1 boss fighting against everyone.

And in regards to the CVAR, did you not read the post where I said that in THIS mode in particular it would be okay? It's fitting for THIS mode in particular. In a FFA or standard TDM people should be allowed to be whatever they wish. But not for THIS mode. Furthermore, the number of playable characters in ESF:F will be far greater than those we currently have.

And in regards to your last comment of "it would just be Team vs Team then" .... seriously? Why are you dumbing things down and making them so black and white? It's not "Team vs Team" do you really need me to point out the differences? Both teams being equal, for one... Two, everyone fighting simultaneously.... Three, anyone can pick any heroes they want... sigh... there's HUGE differences between this and a standard team deathmatch mode.

My mode is about having fun tag-team style gameplay while also making people FEEL immersed in the DBZ universe.

Most of the greatest most epic battles in the DBZ universe had to do with a team of weaklings overcoming an extremely powerful enemy. I would love to see that in ESF:F.

 

[hleV]

So you say things like "It's not like there's only one way to balance things." yet you offer no examples or solutions? I challenge you to come up with a method that incorporates transformations AND balance in a mode where its basically 1 boss fighting against everyone.

You can't just think up of perfect balance and believe it'll work. Such things need testing. I don't feel like going into detail about how I'd do things, but I won't hesitate to point out flaws in your views. Like I said, I may write down my version of Boss Mode sometime later.

And in regards to the CVAR, did you not read the post where I said that in THIS mode in particular it would be okay? It's fitting for THIS mode in particular. In a FFA or standard TDM people should be allowed to be whatever they wish. But not for THIS mode.

And I disagree with you. This game mode wouldn't anyhow benefit from the enforcement of characters.

And in regards to your last comment. It would not be "Team vs Team" why are you making things so black and white? It's not "Team vs Team" do you really need me to point out the differences? Both teams being equal, for one... Two, everyone fighting simultaneously.... Three, anyone can pick any heroes they want... sigh... there's HUGE differences between this and a standard team deathmatch mode.

You need to think of it from a different perspective. Imagine that you're making the game. You make a team vs team game mode. And then you go on to make a team vs boss and his henchmen team mode? It's still team vs team, just somewhat different. Team vs one automatically feels like something entirely else, and I bet it would appeal to the players way more than just another kind of team vs team game mode.

If you're interested, here's a team-based game mode for ESF 1.2.3 that I have actually created in the past: Team Game.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

You can't just think up of perfect balance and believe it'll work. Such things need testing. I don't feel like going into detail about how I'd do things, but I won't hesitate to point out flaws in your views. Like I said, I may write down my version of Boss Mode sometime later.


And I disagree with you. This game mode wouldn't anyhow benefit from the enforcement of characters.


You need to think of it from a different perspective. Imagine that you're making the game. You make a team vs team game mode. And then you go on to make a team vs boss and his henchmen team mode? It's still team vs team, just somewhat different. Team vs one automatically feels like something entirely else, and I bet it would appeal to the players way more than just another kind of team vs team game mode.

If you're interested, here's a team-based game mode for ESF 1.2.3 that I have actually created in the past: Team Game.

1. I'd love to see you write down your versions but I wager that when you try you'll find it harder than you expect... Besides, what's the big deal with not having transformations in THIS one mode? it makes it unique for one, and two, the game is still fun before transforming.. Also it gives extra incentive for people to play as the Boss role. I stand by my method so we'll agree to disagree on this but I'd like to see what you think up on your own.

2. Enforcement of characters has to do with IMMERSION and diversity... Can you imagine one Boss SSJ Vegeta fighting 5 Lesser Gokus??? That would be totally lame. I want people to feel SPECIAL if they get Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc. and if they don't there's the chance they'll get him next round. What you're referring to is enforcement on servers in which rounds are indefinite. I'm referring to enforcement in a game mode in which a round may last a mere 5-10 minutes... You didn't look at it that way, did you? Enforcement is okay under the right conditions. It also gives extra incentive for people to play the Boss character.

3. If you're going to take it that far then we might as well say that TDM is really just FFA in which people only harass certain characters. Every game mode in existence stems from FFA... So, what's your point there? It's not really a valid one. My view on this mode is totally unique, it has a TOTALLY different feel to it than TDM, so please don't call it that which it is not. It is a BIG variation, it is NOT the same. Give it it's credit.

Capture the flag, is really just TDM with flags right? There's a big difference in the way the game is played and it's feel, though.

How about Collect The Dragonballs mode? Why didn't they just call it TDM + Dragonballs? Because that's not the way things work, man... there's big gameplay additions and differences between them.

But I have to say this in closing: i just threw the whole henchman thing out there, it's not really needed. I am not exactly IN LOVE with the idea of henchman i wanted to see if the people liked it though

 

[Horatio]

Answering BlueSaiyan's post -
1. Look, first off, hleV has been here for five years, and many people have put up suggestions. He's been there, Saiyan. Did you even read his last sentence?
Also, you stand by your method. You want creative input, but you stand by your method. Whaaa?

2. Also, have you noticed you can hardly see the character's difference when moving so fast in ESF? Especially with a character like SSJ Vegeta, come on. You'd just wiz all over the place and I highly doubt you could tell goku in his training suit from standard old Krillin.

3. Okay, I'll throw you a bone on this one. You're right, it is not FFA.

Also, the Collect The Dragonballs thing could be called TDM + DBs, but it's standard notation to use the old Quake(?) mode of Capture the Flag, and in this case, they modified it enough to fit the needs of the game. All in all, it is TDM + DBs. You can win by slaughtering the other players, because eventually, just by sheer chance some plonker from the server will go in and grab 'em.

EDIT: In the other post I was supposed to reply to, you said I mentioned Turbo Fly. I never mentioned turbo fly in my post. Just saying.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

Answering BlueSaiyan's post -
1. Look, first off, hleV has been here for five years, and many people have put up suggestions. He's been there, Saiyan. Did you even read his last sentence?
Also, you stand by your method. You want creative input, but you stand by your method. Whaaa?

2. Also, have you noticed you can hardly see the character's difference when moving so fast in ESF? Especially with a character like SSJ Vegeta, come on. You'd just wiz all over the place and I highly doubt you could tell goku in his training suit from standard old Krillin.

3. Okay, I'll throw you a bone on this one. You're right, it is not FFA.

Also, the Collect The Dragonballs thing could be called TDM + DBs, but it's standard notation to use the old Quake(?) mode of Capture the Flag, and in this case, they modified it enough to fit the needs of the game. All in all, it is TDM + DBs. You can win by slaughtering the other players, because eventually, just by sheer chance some plonker from the server will go in and grab 'em.

EDIT: In the other post I was supposed to reply to, you said I mentioned Turbo Fly. I never mentioned turbo fly in my post. Just saying.

1. hleV being here for 5 years has nothing to do with the idea I've brought to the table. I did in fact read his last sentence, and that game mode is COMPLETELY different from my idea.... Seriously, did YOU really read and compare the two? they are totally different in fundamental ways. Yes... I do want creative input, and I am still waiting with open ears for his.. BUT in terms of transformations, i respectfully disagree for the reasons I already stated, but would love to hear from him if he can find a way to implement them in to this mode and maintain balance. As I said I want the boss to have a big enough advantage that even an average player would be able to conquer more skilled foes, since the odds are so stacked against him in terms of teams... And, why are you crying now? "Whaaa"? do you need a bottle? You said it pal not me, lol.

2. Trying to tell me that people "Won't notice who's who" is an argument with no basis what so ever... it's like you think that everyone is just like you, who thinks that a TDM game mode (the one hlev suggested) in which players teams are changed to the person who defeated them is at ALL similar to the BOSS MODE which I have suggested... I am not interested in assuming that people are stupid. I rather assume people are smart, hence why I'm all ears for constructive ideas here.

3. Throw me a bone? Seems more like you've got one to pick actually. This isn't a popularity contest here, this is entertaining and conceptualizing a solid new game mode. You realize there's a minimal chance that ANY of our ideas will make it to the final product right? So then just have fun and conceptualize this idea with me... No need to get heated.

And yes, it is TDM+DBs but most people don't play it... So it would seem to be a large enough change to not only ward people away but also to warrant an entirely new title for it's mode, and yet that mode is not nearly as game changing as the one that I am suggesting.

Can we please stay on topic here? I feel like we're already playing Boss mode here and it's like me VS everyone else... It's funny how I ask for creativity and all I get is drama? Where's the creativity folks? I'd like for people to play nice and add things on to this idea, like I said, instead of just "Sux" or "Like it". If you dislike something, then tell me how you'd tweak it in a way that would maintain balance. And, if you DO like something and think it's perfect, then fine, but you might also like to tweak something that you like as well... Like for instance health scaling according to number of players per server... (I actually thought of that idea before I saw the guy said that), but we both agreed it was the better option of the two and I went for it. So, let's keep the creative ideas flowing here and push the petty squabbles to the way-side.

 

[Horatio]

1. hleV being here for 5 years has nothing to do with the idea I've brought to the table. I did in fact read his last sentence, and that game mode is COMPLETELY different from my idea.... Seriously, did YOU really read and compare the two? they are totally different in fundamental ways. Yes... I do want creative input, and I am still waiting with open ears for his.. BUT in terms of transformations, i respectfully disagree for the reasons I already stated.... Why are you crying now? "Whaaa"? do you need a bottle?

2. Trying to tell me that people "Won't notice" who's who is an argument with no basis what so ever... it's like you think that everyone is just like you, who thinks that a TDM game mode (the one hlev suggested) in which players teams are changed to the person who defeated them is at ALL similar to the BOSS MODE which I have suggested... I am not interested in assuming that people are stupid. I rather assume people are smart, hence why I'm all ears for constructive ideas here.

3. Throw me a bone? Seems more like you've got one to pick actually. This isn't a popularity contest here, this is entertaining and conceptualizing a solid new game mode. You realize there's a minimal chance that ANY of our ideas will make it to the final product right? So then just have fun and conceptualize this idea with me... No need to get heated.

And yes, it is very similar to TDM+DBs but most people don't play it... So it would seem to be a large enough change to warrant an entirely new title for it's mode, and yet that mode is not nearly as game changing as the one that I am suggesting.

1. hleV being here for 5 years, well, indicates that he's been there! You said it would be harder than you'd think to make a game mode.Bang, he made a game mode in the last sentence. I apologize for the misunderstanding of your 'Holding by your method' but, but that Whaa wasn't crying, it was an expression to denote confusion and pain at the ignorance of other human beings.

2. I don't think that it is similar, and I don't honestly believe you do either. You're being very childish. I wanted to have a nice civil debate, and so far you've already called me stupid and ask me mockingly whether or not I need a bottle. I wasn't talking about an argument, either. I was talking about the fact that one person whizzing past another is simply not going to be visible, so who cares if you need the whole '1 char per server' rule?

3. I never talked about a popularity contest. I never mentioned this wasn't making a new game mode. I never got heated, as much as you appear to be, at this current moment. I also didn't deny that there is a minimal chance. Use your head before posting, BlueSaiyan.

You do indeed seem to be drawn to thinking I'm saying things I'm not actually saying. *sigh*

 

[BlueSaiyan]

1. hleV being here for 5 years, well, indicates that he's been there! You said it would be harder than you'd think to make a game mode.Bang, he made a game mode in the last sentence. I apologize for the misunderstanding of your 'Holding by your method' but, but that Whaa wasn't crying, it was an expression to denote confusion and pain at the ignorance of other human beings.

2. I don't think that it is similar, and I don't honestly believe you do either. You're being very childish. I wanted to have a nice civil debate, and so far you've already called me stupid and ask me mockingly whether or not I need a bottle. I wasn't talking about an argument, either. I was talking about the fact that one person whizzing past another is simply not going to be visible, so who cares if you need the whole '1 char per server' rule?

3. I never talked about a popularity contest. I never mentioned this wasn't making a new game mode. I never got heated, as much as you appear to be, at this current moment. I also didn't deny that there is a minimal chance. Use your head before posting, BlueSaiyan.

You do indeed seem to be drawn to thinking I'm saying things I'm not actually saying. *sigh*

1.All things considered there, I have no desire to argue. I interpreted what you said as that way because the whole "QQ" thing has grown so widespread on the internet it's become like an infectious disease. So, I do apologize for misinterpreting that. But past merits are irrelevant now if you're not PRODUCING new ideas... Maybe he's got something cooking right now that's really good, I won't know until I see it.

2.But people WILL see who is who, because chances are a lot of people are going to stay huddled together either in the air or on the ground while they wait for their turn... and to be sitting there as Krillen thinking "Wow that's Goku up there fighting against Frieza" would be a cool moment... other than just "Oh that's 'PwnAnoob' up there fighting against 'FistYerSister'", ya know? It's about immersion. And people will notice who is who.

3. I'm glad to know that. I thought you were implying it by saying "He's been here 5 years" .... I mean really, I been here since before 1.2 was released and I listened to the radio show as well, and had an older account that I used to suggest things to for 1.2 but meh it's irrelevant now. Oh I even released this spirit bomb pack with custom sound effects, i did one for frieza's transformation, and i also released a more vibrant color pack for all the characters..... BUT anyways, we can debate in a civil manner, discuss new ideas, etc etc.

 

[Horatio]

Thank you, BlueSaiyan. Let's put all prejudices behind us at this point, from this argument?

Anyway, this game mode does in fact have some potential to be added to the game. Like I said, perhaps it needs a bit of tweaking before it can be implemented, but it's on it's way.

 

[hleV]

Bwhat's the big deal with not having transformations in THIS one mode? it makes it unique for one, and two, the game is still fun before transforming..

Restricting features makes the game mode unique? It's much more fun with transformations enabled. Every 10 year old will agree and will cry when they can't transform. Like I said, you need to look at it from a different perspective. You need to appeal to the majority of people, which will probably be those 10 year olds. I certainly don't mind additional server CVARs to configure the way the game mode works, but enforcing something without the ability to remove those restrictions would be retarded.

Also it gives extra incentive for people to play as the Boss role. I stand by my method so we'll agree to disagree on this but I'd like to see what you think up on your own.

The Boss is stronger than other characters in any form. That's enough motivation to become the Boss.

2. Enforcement of characters has to do with IMMERSION and diversity... Can you imagine one Boss SSJ Vegeta fighting 5 Lesser Gokus??? That would be totally lame. I want people to feel SPECIAL if they get Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc.

It's not the character itself that makes you the Boss. It's what the Boss can do. You can give him a bigger aura, special abilities, etc. You'd definitely feel like a boss. And limiting characters to one for everybody else is even worse. I honestly can't see how is it any different than limiting characters in any other game mode. What's so special about Boss Mode that it would benefit from limiting characters to everyone while others modes wouldn't?

and if they don't there's the chance they'll get him next round. What you're referring to is enforcement on servers in which rounds are indefinite. I'm referring to enforcement in a game mode in which a round may last a mere 5-10 minutes... You didn't look at it that way, did you? Enforcement is okay under the right conditions. It also gives extra incentive for people to play the Boss character.

I really don't know what rounds are you talking about and how would they work in such a game as ESF, so obviously I didn't "look at it that way".

If you're going to take it that far then we might as well say that TDM is really just FFA in which people only harass certain characters. Every game mode in existence stems from FFA... So, what's your point there? It's not really a valid one. My view on this mode is totally unique, it has a TOTALLY different feel to it than TDM, so please don't call it that which it is not. It is a BIG variation, it is NOT the same. Give it it's credit.

Capture the flag, is really just TDM with flags right? There's a big difference in the way the game is played and it's feel, though.

How about Collect The Dragonballs mode? Why didn't they just call it TDM + Dragonballs? Because that's not the way things work, man... there's big gameplay additions and differences between them.

FFA is deathmatch. TDM is team-based battle. I have no problem with different team-based game modes, I only feel like the Boss Mode with henchmen would be much worse than one vs all.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

Restricting features makes the game mode unique? It's much more fun with transformations enabled. Every 10 year old will agree and will cry when they can't transform. Like I said, you need to look at it from a different perspective. You need to appeal to the majority of people, which will probably be those 10 year olds. I certainly don't mind additional server CVARs to configure the way the game mode works, but enforcing something without the ability to remove those restrictions would be retarded.


The Boss is stronger than other characters in any form. That's enough motivation to become the Boss.


It's not the character itself that makes you the Boss. It's what the Boss can do. You can give him a bigger aura, special abilities, etc. You'd definitely feel like a boss. And limiting characters to one for everybody else is even worse. I honestly can't see how is it any different than limiting characters in any other game mode. What's so special about Boss Mode that it would benefit from limiting characters to everyone while others modes wouldn't?


I really don't know what rounds are you talking about and how would they work in such a game as ESF, so obviously I didn't "look at it that way".


FFA is deathmatch. TDM is team-based battle. I have no problem with different team-based game modes, I only feel like the Boss Mode with henchmen would be much worse than one vs all.

1.There's no evidence which suggests that the majority of ESF fans are whiny 10 year olds. I was 15 when I first started playing ESF and now I'm 24!!! So by that math a 10 year old discovering ESF back when HL1 was still popular would be 19 right now! So really we can't assume that the majority of ESF fans are 10 year olds, and furthermore why worry about whiny 10 year olds anyways? They'll complain about anything. They'll complain that they can't transform RIGHT AWAY in standard TDM for that matter and that shouldn't detract the team from making a quality game. I hate to say this, but in any game (WoW, HL2, Modern Warfare) nobody likes a whiny 10 year old. They don't run the planet, the adults do.

2. "Stronger" does not mean mechanically more superior. You're offering me no examples which would indicate mechanical imbalance in favor of the boss. You want to let everyone including the boss transform? Once they're all on the same mechanical level, then the only thing that determines who wins will be skills, and we all know it'd be too easy for a veteran to trample over an "average" boss player if they're both at the same level of transformation due to all of the mechanical benefits of it (ie more teleports, more ki, faster, stronger, etc.). Are you proposing to let the "Boss" start out at his 2nd transformation and everyone else can transform once? Really, you haven't suggested anything! So how am I to take this seriously? How is he "stronger than other characters in any form" besides his health?? Think about it all the way through and then come back and I will listen.

3. A bigger aura? Seriously? Who cares about a "bigger aura" which offers nothing more than a fancy light show? Mechanically it offers zero helpful benefits. And, "Special abilities"??? Like what???? See this is what I'm talking about. You have to think it through in your head and then suggest it to me otherwise I can't take it seriously. I'm all open ears, but, it's like you're talking without SAYING anything. Does that make sense? I hope so. I'm not trying to be offensive at all. .... Now to address your beef with limiting characters: 'Enforcement of characters has to do with IMMERSION and diversity. I want people to feel SPECIAL if they get Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc. and if they don't there's the chance they'll get him next round. In this game mode a round may last a mere 5-10 minutes... Once the boss dies, or all of the other fighters die, then everyone picks new fighters. Enforcement is okay under the right conditions. It also gives extra incentive for people to play the Boss character.'

4. Rounds, like almost counter strike style... once the boss dies, or all the lesser fighters die, then everyone picks new fighters, with the BOSS getting first pick on who he wants to be.

5. Okay that's fine with me, consider the Henchman idea tossed out the window and in to the trash can, then set on fire and then doused by the pee of a homeless man.

 

[EndreVanan]

I'm 24!!!

I apologize, this contributes absolutely nothing to this discussion, but you definitely could've fooled me.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

I apologize, this contributes absolutely nothing to this discussion, but you definitely could've fooled me.

Yeah it's funny how when you're young people want you to act more mature... but when you're old, people love when you don't act your age. lol. Who cares what people think, thoughts are fickle.

 

[hleV]

So to prove that your suggestions are bad, instead of explaining why they're bad, I have to provide better ones? That's not how shit works, sorry.

1.There's no evidence which suggests that the majority of ESF fans are whiny 10 year olds. I was 15 when I first started playing ESF and now I'm 24!!! So by that math a 10 year old discovering ESF back when HL1 was still popular would be 19 right now! So really we can't assume that the majority of ESF fans are 10 year olds, and furthermore why worry about whiny 10 year olds anyways? They'll complain about anything. They'll complain that they can't transform RIGHT AWAY in standard TDM for that matter and that shouldn't detract the team from making a quality game. I hate to say this, but in any game (WoW, HL2, Modern Warfare) nobody likes a whiny 10-year-old. They don't run the planet, the adults do.

Yeah, the majority of a DBZ game players are totally gonna be 24-year-olds.

2. "Stronger" does not mean mechanically more superior. You're offering me no examples which would indicate mechanical imbalance in favor of the boss. You want to let everyone including the boss transform? Once they're all on the same mechanical level, then the only thing that determines who wins will be skills, and we all know it'd be too easy for a veteran to trample over an "average" boss player if they're both at the same level of transformation due to all of the mechanical benefits of it (ie more teleports, more ki, faster, stronger, etc.). Are you proposing to let the "Boss" start out at his 2nd transformation and everyone else can transform once? Really, you haven't suggested anything! So how am I to take this seriously? How is he "stronger than other characters in any form" besides his health?? Think about it all the way through and then come back and I will listen.

Apparently you've completely forgotten the fact that the Boss can be made stronger real-time. And "stronger" doesn't mean "has more health".

3. A bigger aura? Seriously? Who cares about a "bigger aura" which offers nothing more than a fancy light show? Mechanically it offers zero helpful benefits. And, "Special abilities"??? Like what???? See this is what I'm talking about. You have to think it through in your head and then suggest it to me otherwise I can't take it seriously. I'm all open ears, but, it's like you're talking without SAYING anything. Does that make sense? I hope so. I'm not trying to be offensive at all. .... Now to address your beef with limiting characters: 'Enforcement of characters has to do with IMMERSION and diversity. I want people to feel SPECIAL if they get Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc. and if they don't there's the chance they'll get him next round. In this game mode a round may last a mere 5-10 minutes... Once the boss dies, or all of the other fighters die, then everyone picks new fighters. Enforcement is okay under the right conditions. It also gives extra incentive for people to play the Boss character.'

You seem to care so much about limiting the characters to just one at a time to feel "unique", but bigger aura is bad? Not only it looks cool, but it lets the others easily identify the Boss' location. Abilities? For instance, an ability to kill/hurt players within a certain radius. It wouldn't be abusable, but definitely fun (trust me, I know). Just an example.

4. Rounds, like almost counter strike style... once the boss dies, or all the lesser fighters die, then everyone picks new fighters, with the BOSS getting first pick on who he wants to be.

If you mean that players who died to the Boss can't respawn and are forced to wait, then you can forget about it. I can assure you it's not gonna be in.

 

[BlueSaiyan]

So to prove that your suggestions are bad, instead of explaining why they're bad, I have to provide better ones? That's not how shit works, sorry.

Yes, it's very easy to be a hater. It's harder to provide solutions. If someone can provide me with a solution or a tweak, it suggests he's got the ability and thus intelligence for higher-thinking... it's soooo easy to just say "i hate this or that" without a solution. Did you know that listening to complainers is literally bad for your mental health? But there's a distinct scientific difference between a person who complains, and a person who complains for a plea for solutions. I'm interested in the latter

Yeah, the majority of a DBZ game players are totally gonna be 24-year-olds.

Why wouldn't they? One of my best friends, whom I met with no idea that he liked DBZ... is like 30-something years old! totally cool guy too... we're in the age group that actually grew up on the original funimation stuff before animes came a dime a dozen, and we're almost akin to all of the die-hard FF7 fans out there who's first Final Fantasy game was #7... we've got a strong following bro.

Apparently you've completely forgotten the fact that the Boss can be made stronger real-time. And "stronger" doesn't mean "has more health".

then what DOES "stronger" mean if not "more health"? I'd love to hear your complex system involving this, i really would. I'm not being facetious at all lol.

You seem to care so much about limiting the characters to just one at a time to feel "unique", but bigger aura is bad? Not only it looks cool, but it lets the others easily identify the Boss' location. Abilities? For instance, an ability to kill/hurt players within a certain radius. It wouldn't be abusable, but definitely fun (trust me, I know). Just an example.

Bigger aura is not BAD, but we've got bigger issues to deal with in terms of actually balancing this thing... it's like we're stranded on an island and I'm asking you how we're going to make sure our get-away boat doesn't leak and your response is "I want a boat with pretty flowers on the sail!" ... lol. But also, have you seen the videos of recent vegeta fighting? He had a portrait in the HUD which you could see from far away that let you know exactly who he was... but yea, aesthetically i have no qualms with a bigger aura. I just was expecting you to have more input regarding the infrastructure of this whole thing. Also, in terms of different characters, they DO in fact provide different fighting styles and benefits and strengths/weaknesses, so there would indeed be a mechanical benefit for the boss to pick his favorite fighter... and for the unfortunate man who get's stuck with Chaotzu on round one? He will have to fight at a different pace... a bit slower, better timing, wait for the opponent to slip up, etc. I think it would be a lot of fun. No game is PERFECTLY balanced and there will be tiers based on the unique abilities and stats of characters, that is just the nature of games with multiple playable characters.

If you mean that players who died to the Boss can't respawn and are forced to wait, then you can forget about it. I can assure you it's not gonna be in.

It certainly could be, though that's why I initially proposed to limit the number of players for this mode... trust me, it could be done, and if you die you should want to watch other players and learn from their fighting styles. It's like everyone is totally spazzing because there's death penalties.. But ask yourself why Demon Souls for the PS3 was such a massive hit? Because of the death penalties! People LIKE a little slap on the wrist for losing, as it allows them to reflect and tweak their gameplay methods thus becoming better in the process

 

[Horatio]

Look, BluesSaiyan, face it. The place IS going to be eaten by the marauding hoards of 10 year olds when ESF: Final gets released. That's the main quarrel I have with your argument. You may be 24, but as soon as the game gets released, there's gonna be a lot of people <14 years old.

How about instead of wanting this implemented into the base game, how about you research on how to make some AMXX mods or whatever you do there and make it yourself?

 

[RobiZ]

Look, BluesSaiyan, face it. The place IS going to be eaten by the marauding hoards of 10 year olds when ESF: Final gets released. That's the main quarrel I have with your argument. You may be 24, but as soon as the game gets released, there's gonna be a lot of people <14 years old.

How about instead of wanting this implemented into the base game, how about you research on how to make some AMXX mods or whatever you do there and make it yourself?

+ no one said it's not already in the game or WIP