New game mode: Boss Mode

Would you like to see this in the game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 83.3%
  • No

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • Yes, but let me tell you what I'd like to change....

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
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It's all fine now, Grega pretty much answered everything for me.

I interpreted your original message as an active prevention of Metamod & AMXX, but according to Grega, it isn't quite so. Anyway, as long as it isn't anything deliberate, I can understand it, if it entails greater control over the features of the game.

Anyway, there we are. Also, Grega, yeah, XML Editor? :|
The XML editor is a quick tool to create XML files for ESF. Its responsible for getting the map setup, effects and so on. You can also make the files without the editor, but its just easier to use the editor.

We also use it for character and attack creation. Basically everything in the game that can be customized goes over the XML editor. So every character, every map, attacks, effects its all in XML files. Thats what will make it harder for the AMXX coders. But on the other hand you can easily change the settings of a map without the need to decompile a map.

Think of it like this. You download a map, and dont like the day/night rotation speed. All you do is edit the xml file of the map, save and you changed the map ingame with no need to recompile.
 
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EDIT: This was in response to a deleted post.
I don't think I'd be too off by saying that your version of Boss Mode won't be considered by the team. Parts of it, at best. And those parts were likely suggested in the past.

You get so worked up because your logic is screwed: "My idea is good unless you come up with a better one, explaining why it's bad doesn't work for me!". Change it. If I cared about what you think of me and my ability to come up with better ideas, I would've done that. But I'm more into shooting screwed ideas that have no chance to make into the game down.

To explain better what you're doing... Imagine that aliens invaded Earth. You're suggesting that we need to destroy the Earth to wipe out the aliens (along with all the humanity), and you believe this is a good idea, because nobody has yet suggested to actually fight those aliens.
 
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Personally I voted for the Boss Mode in general, not necessarily the one you suggested. I think it may apply to some others voters as well.
So you can't even fathom how anyone else would like the idea, huh?.... I gave you ample opportunity and respect to suggest and input things in to this idea. I was willing to consider your plea for transformations, but you never gave me a system for how it would work in a manner in which the boss would still be mechanically superior.

Well, the offer still stands, if u can think of something good then we can add it in and then maybe you can feel better about your vote.


edit/response:

EDIT: This was in response to a deleted post.
I don't think I'd be too off by saying that your version of Boss Mode won't be considered by the team. Parts of it, at best. And those parts were likely suggested in the past.

You get so worked up because your logic is screwed: "My idea is good unless you come up with a better one, explaining why it's bad doesn't work for me!". Change it. If I cared about what you think of me and my ability to come up with better ideas, I would've done that. But I'm more into shooting screwed ideas that have no chance to make into the game down.

To explain better what you're doing... Imagine that aliens invaded Earth. You're suggesting that we need to destroy the Earth to wipe out the aliens (along with all the humanity), and you believe this is a good idea, because nobody has yet suggested to actually fight those aliens.
All you're doing is trolling, man... I asked you for creative input and all you could do was complain. What's the use in that? You have tourettes of the fingers.

Trust me dude, your analogy made zero sense because it in no way correlated with anything I've said or done thus far. The secret to analogies is for them to coincide with the nature of something that someone said... Yours is just totally wacko. I'm not sure why you insist on trolling me, but like I said earlier....

"it's very easy to be a hater. It's harder to provide solutions. If someone can provide me with a solution or a tweak, it suggests he's got the ability and thus intelligence for higher-thinking... it's soooo easy to just say "i hate this or that" without a solution. Did you know that listening to complainers is literally bad for your mental health? But there's a distinct scientific difference between a person who complains, and a person who complains for a plea for solutions. I'm interested in the latter :)"


Now let's leave it at that because I feel like I'm arguing with a child.... Now I'm actually legitimately wondering how old you are... Oh dear.


Anyways, thank you all for the other 7 votes!! I'm pretty confident the team will have seen this thread and hopefully, if we get some more ideas in here, we can inspire them in some way shape or form. (which is something I said earlier too Hlev I never expected the exact thing to be in the game to a tee.)
 
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I feel good about my vote, because it suggests that someone actually wants the Boss Mode in, if the team ever decides to consider it. But then, I'm pretty certain that it won't be a mode like you suggested, so from where I stand, everything's great.

I never said that everyone voted for the Boss Mode itself and not the Boss Mode as you described it. If you think I did, I suggest you re-read my post, as I only implied that if I've done that, it's possible that someone else did. This was mainly in response to you thanking people who presumably voted yes for your version of Boss Mode rather than Boss Mode.
 
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I feel good about my vote, because it suggests that someone actually wants the Boss Mode in, if the team ever decides to consider it. But then, I'm pretty certain that it won't be a mode like you suggested, so from where I stand, everything's great.

I never said that everyone voted for the Boss Mode itself and not the Boss Mode as you described it. If you think I did, I suggest you re-read my post, as I only implied that if I've done that, it's possible that someone else did. This was mainly in response to you thanking people who presumably voted yes for your version of Boss Mode rather than Boss Mode.
let's not beat around the bush here..... you've come in here to rain on my parade.... how noble of you. You mighty man of the people you, so brave of you to come in here and kill any good vibes we had going.... nice job.

Now, let's keep this topic focused on new ideas and opinions please, I've heard plenty of yours. No need to repeat the same things over and over again.
 
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Sorry for pointing out and explaining why your ideas are bad. Didn't think you'd get so offended.
 
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Sorry for pointing out and explaining why your ideas are bad. Didn't think you'd get so offended.
Like katt williams said "LET HATERS HATE, THAT'S THEIR JOB!" so i apologize for trying to divert you away from your life's greatest ambition.

We've all heard your disdain for my complex system, I get it... You want the super dumbed down simple version of "Cell VS all" or "Broly VS all" but you can't fathom how little replay value a mode like that would have. Mine offers diversity, replay value, and it's unique. Honestly I was expecting all sorts of complex ideas from people here, because I personally find it fun to think of.... that's why I added the "Yes, but here's what I'd like to change" voting option.

I've got some good ideas here and if some of the more complex ones are not implemented, it will be most likely due to time constraints.

You're what some might call "creatively bankrupt". I put up with your attitude for PAGES and all I got out of you was "bigger auras" L-O-L. Thanks.
 
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Lol, but I'm not though.... because I beat him at his own game last time, and it made him stop talking, until I decided to thank everyone for their votes and then he popped back up again.... so i just wanted to repeat something that worked: beating him at his own game.... but, trust me, I see the irony in it and thanks for pointing that out lol. Hopefully we can just drop it now.
 
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Lol, but I'm not though.... because I beat him at his own game last time, and it made him stop talking, until I decided to thank everyone for their votes and then he popped back up again.... so i just wanted to repeat something that worked: beating him at his own game.... but, trust me, I see the irony in it and thanks for pointing that out lol. Hopefully we can just drop it now.
Um, are you sure that he just had to do something? E.g, eat, sleep, etc? Because it wasn't exactly a grand old pause, beginning with him publicly backing down.

Also, BlueSaiyan, the people here, well, they are all d*ck heads. Deal with it.

That is just the state of the community. One could figuratively say that everyone simply hates each other, and we come here to argue and poke holes at each other.

Basically, if you come here expecting kind, compassionate support, you've come to the wrong place. Try the YouTube comments section. That'd be the next step up from where this forum is! xD

Basically, just deal with it.

No need to get quite so angry.
 
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Horatio, please do us all a favor and shut up.
 
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I beat him at his own game last time, and it made him stop talking
Except that everything I previously wrote still stands. You couldn't defend your opinion. Asking me to provide my own ideas (and me not bothering to do that) doesn't prove your point. But yeah, you totally beat me by calling me a hater and a troll.
 
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Lol, I've spoken my piece and am satisfied. I'll not engage u any further in this manner, it's grown uber redundant.

And lol @ horatio, thanks for keeping it real and
lol @ dam thanks for trying to keep the peace.

And lastly, thank u to everyone who voted in favor of my boss mode.

But no hard feelings to those who didnt ;-)


Topic still wide open for discussions and revisions :)
 
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Lol, I've spoken my piece and am satisfied. I'll not engage u any further in this manner, it's grown uber redundant.
That's precisely what I did previously, yet you went on to claim that you beat me. Just saiyan.
 
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OK my 2 cents.

1.) The boss. He would be broken in the hands of a skiller player, as he would be unbeatable, while allowing him to regain HP by killing people (which lets face it isnt all that hard) and giving him a buffed char that he has the privilege of choosing again if he kills off the other team.

2.) The other team. Limiting the character selection to 1 char is pointless, since the characters are not representation of dragonball, but are pretty much there to provide different possible play styles.

3.) The other team part 2. A killed char staying dead would mean that the person who was playing him only has the option to sit back and watch while other people play the game. Not a fun thing to do and seeing as the tournament pluggin that forced people in to a no fight arena while 2 people fought made people quit the game once they were out, gives me the impression that doing so here will make people quit of boredom resulting in an empty server rather fast.

4.) The fight. Your suggestion of 1 minute seems reasonable for the people waiting, but the people playing the game would be forced out of fights to fast resulting in nothing but confusion, since some matches can take a few minutes to come to a conclusion, but extending the limit would also be a bad idea due to point number 3.

5.) The fight part 2. Limiting ANY features of the game (transformations) would annoy some people while pleasing others, causing a general hate of the limits, even if those limits are based on server settings.


All in all the idea as you posted it has no place in the ESF ingame community as people want action all the time without having to wait their turn. The general layout of the game would also mean that 1 skilled player would pretty much kill off the boss and then hold that spot while the others can do nothing but watch, since he is the only one they can fight.
 
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Grega, you didn't provide your own ideas for the Boss Mode, so your arguments don't count.
 
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OK my 2 cents.

1.) The boss. He would be broken in the hands of a skiller player, as he would be unbeatable, while allowing him to regain HP by killing people (which lets face it isnt all that hard) and giving him a buffed char that he has the privilege of choosing again if he kills off the other team.
No he does not get to be the 'Boss' again just because he killed off the other team. All you had to do was read my VERY FIRST post to see that this isn't the case.... And, yes, a skilled player with the boss would be quite a tough opponent to beat akin to Frieza, but hopefully someone out there would be better... If not, then at least everyone got their fair turn to play/fight, their spotlight, and lost in an epic way. This scenario is inevitable in 'Boss Mode'. Some times the boss wins :p but he is absolutely NOT guaranteed a recurring turn as this role. This argument seems strange to me, it's like you're saying "there's skilled fighters who can just kill everyone!" as if that hasn't always existed already....?

2.) The other team. Limiting the character selection to 1 char is pointless, since the characters are not representation of dragonball, but are pretty much there to provide different possible play styles.
How on Earth can you say that they're not there to represent the characters? They ARE the characters. The model AND their fighting style is WHAT MAKES THEM. This argument seems quite absurd to me.... You sound like the other guy who said "People won't even NOTICE the difference between Krillen and SSJ Goku up there fighting!" ..... Seriously? Yes they will. And getting to fight with your favorite character/fighting style would indeed have it's mechanical benefits, which would be a privilege and not a right, and also these rounds wouldn't last too long, so it's not like the person would be stuck with them forever. It would add greatly to the immersion and the DBZ feel of everything. I remember once hosting a server in 1.1 on a cell games map with everyone using different heroes (i was Goku) and we all took turns fighting one Cell. It was EPIC and everybody loved it, and we got really cool screenshots, so, I really beg to differ on this one Grega.

3.) The other team part 2. A killed char staying dead would mean that the person who was playing him only has the option to sit back and watch while other people play the game. Not a fun thing to do and seeing as the tournament pluggin that forced people in to a no fight arena while 2 people fought made people quit the game once they were out, gives me the impression that doing so here will make people quit of boredom resulting in an empty server rather fast.
A "no fight arena" means they can't even really watch the fight, doesn't it? I'd prefer a camera which would follow the main two fighters so you can see all the action up close at that point. OR we can figure out something else, like perhaps when a character dies their model becomes white and 50% transparent(like a ghost obviouisly) and then they can fight FFA style with all of the other dead fighters while gaining power level for next round? Wouldn't that be a good solution? If anyone else likes this better then I'll add it in to the front page immediately. I feel that as long as the fighters are transparent then they won't cause a huge distraction for the main two fighting.

4.) The fight. Your suggestion of 1 minute seems reasonable for the people waiting, but the people playing the game would be forced out of fights to fast resulting in nothing but confusion, since some matches can take a few minutes to come to a conclusion, but extending the limit would also be a bad idea due to point number 3.
Right. A minute is actually a pretty long time if you're ready to jump in the second that the current fighters' time starts to run out(as the 'Next Up' fighter would be pre-determined and displayed in the HUD). A pure minute of fighting actually is a good length of time, and it enables the 'Healing' to take place for the 'Lesser Fighters'. We do not always WANT to fight swiftly to the death. Most strategically, the goal is to do as much damage to the boss WITHOUT dying so that boss man doesn't get that health bonus for kills. In certain situations, fighters may prefer to play defensively because of their character and to allow their allies to heal up a bit (kind of like how Gohan fought Frieza when Goku got knocked in to the lava as a Super Saiyan.) All the fighters are gaining 1 health per every 10 seconds and it really adds up... with 5 fighters in waiting, and 50 seconds passing, that's a total of 25 health for that entire team which is actually less than the amount that the boss gets for killing one fighter, although of course he gets ALL of his to himself. Some fighters might employ a 'Rope a Dope' style of fighting. Or maybe they want to set up the Boss so perfectly that they strike him to the ground as the clock reaches zero, while the fighter next up fires off his energy beam the SECOND the clock changes? :) many possibilities here. And also if you manage to pick Buu or someone else with the ability to heal outside of battle, then you'll be back at full health by the time it is your turn again:)

5.) The fight part 2. Limiting ANY features of the game (transformations) would annoy some people while pleasing others, causing a general hate of the limits, even if those limits are based on server settings.


All in all the idea as you posted it has no place in the ESF ingame community as people want action all the time without having to wait their turn. The general layout of the game would also mean that 1 skilled player would pretty much kill off the boss and then hold that spot while the others can do nothing but watch, since he is the only one they can fight.
^ This was a mechanic employed by the "Broly VS all" mode which is not the same as mine, so, unfortunately you've misread my post. It's quite clear on the very first page that this mechanic does not exist in my proposed game mode.

Regarding the transformations, fine, we can let people transform, and hopefully the Boss's increased health will give him a big enough advantage to maintain the upper hand. We could also give whoever is the boss a 'temporary boost in powerlevel', say, 2-3 times as much as it currently is, until he is defeated. This also gives an added benefit to anyone doing good damage to the guy because they'd be gaining more PL in the process.

And it benefits the BOSS specifically in terms of strength of beams, AND he would certainly be able to transform to level 3 before anyone else, thus maintaining that mechanical benefit. I really think this could work.

I just thought these things up on the fly too guys, see, it's not that hard to think up new stuff!.... Gosh >_>

I will modify the front page to reflect changes, soon.

EDIT: I've added things to the front page so check it out! This is exciting :)

Most notably also I've added the following mechanics so let me know if u guys like this one:
1.All the 'Lesser' fighters who aren't fighting the boss (and are still alive) can fly around the map but can not do any attacks or use turbo-fly (because it would get too distracting for the main two). But they CAN teleport.
2.The boss CAN damage living players ONLY WITH ENERGY ATTACKS. You'll have to either block the attack or teleport out of the way to avoid damage.
 
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First off, I object to your 'lost in an epic way' comment in the first paragraph. How would it be epic what so ever? It'd just be the boss flying about, someone approaches him, he owns them, and beckons the next opponent.
The game does, factually, have a high skill ceiling, with a very steep learning curve. That means, a lot of beginners would simply get murdered by someone with more HP, greater attack damage, and faster speed.

What it boils down to is "Oh, well, if the boss is too good at the game... oh well! I guess that we better hope that we got some more players who are better!"
And as for you insulting Grega's argument as it is, it is obvious that this game mode specifically gives the better player an extreme advantage. It gives it MOBA syndrome - the good players just completely dominate all the newbies. However, in standard TDM mode, the good players do, in fact, give a slight advantage to the team - but in turn, when the opposing team is stronger, the weaker team will get stronger more quickly, thus balancing out.

If you have a better player here, he is going to own them with a greater character in all respects, both artificially and skillfully, and even get back up to max HP. I mean, say you have B, the boss, against SP, standard player. Say the boss is good at the game - to prevent you yelling back at me "No, that wouldn't happen, because it isn't that unbalanced, and whinewhinewhine!". The boss is going to zip around the player, basic melee will do what - 20 DMG per hit? With the average 2x Basic Meleé, you're gonna get 40 HP every time B scores a hit, and with the average character HP max of about 100 or so, that means that with only 5 basic meleé hits, SP is gonna be dead, and B is going to have a HP bonus, to completely negate the 5 HP or so of damage that SP could do with a basic melee hit.

Also, you seem to be taking the direct wording of Grega's post and either grammar nazing them to make them sound stupid, or just deliberately misrepresenting them. He meant, as I'm sure you know, that this is not a RP game. Each of these characters don't represent the very 'character', they represent the play style of each character. From my experience with the game, Krillin is focused on melee, and Buu is focused on Ki attacks. When have you ever actually seen anyone Role playing on a good old server of ESF 1.2.3? No one selected Goku and started quoting him, or playing sound board clips, unless it was a planned event. Also, for the not noticing the difference between SSJ Goku and Krillin. Basically, either you're not good at this game and don't use the 'G' button, or even double tap W as Goku, heck, have you even seen the gameplay demos for ESF:Final? Take the game play videos - they dance around one another with the melee thing. You can hardly tell one from the other if you're gonna be at any sort of distance from them. There's a lot of clustering around one another. Not to mention all the dust explosions and what not, it'll be hectic as fck.

For the health regen thing, the boss will easily dispatch 20 HP in a single basic melee hit, like i mentioned before. That means that the boss can set the team back 40 seconds in one hit. Not very balanced. And then if you increase the health regen, it'll be unbalanced again. This is indeed quite the conundrum we have here, the only thing I can think of is to take away the whole hp regen feature.

Also, how would a boost in PL help anything? That would just be awful. The boss is meant to start out as SSJ. Fine. No respawns. Fine. SSJ transformations of all the SPs out there. Fine. Boost in PL? No. Because speed and HP does not revolve around PL, but rather transformation, it would boost each SP up to 80% of the boss, or there about. That almost equals a 1v1 match, and is that really balanced? Sure, the boss could hit harder, but would he be able to hit?

As for the thing about beams, as the great sage --BOT-- Skyrider puts it, "melee > beams". How many times have you seen someone use nothing but beams? Okay? How many times have you seen someone use nothing but melee? And so that proves my point.

Also, I think of ideas, but before I post them, I realize that they are indeed terrible, terrible unbalanced pieces of fck. I'm afraid that you don't do the same thing, while revising your own work.
 

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