Melee on main page.
- Thread starter Cold Steel
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tihnk it would make sense to make punch normally when at close range, with the limit of 12. i mean at will, not automatically. but im not doubting this new system, if the testers think its great then i take their word for it. i bet when people play it they wont think its as bad as explained. (no offence, just when things are written out it seems worse than it is, to me anyways.)
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hey i'm all good with this I gots no problem... well yea I do got one problem and its really a question... I wanna know...
lets say i'm swooping... if I move up can I like loop??? I'm tired of seeing people spinning like a tire on the highway... I want to be able to loop or like when i'm on the ground I can swoop up and I move my mouse further up i'm swooping back instead of forward all the time... get what I mean... can i get that question answered before this thread gets flamed up like a volcano.. :]
lets say i'm swooping... if I move up can I like loop??? I'm tired of seeing people spinning like a tire on the highway... I want to be able to loop or like when i'm on the ground I can swoop up and I move my mouse further up i'm swooping back instead of forward all the time... get what I mean... can i get that question answered before this thread gets flamed up like a volcano.. :]
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This is what I think melee should be like for 1.2. Read it or not, it's your choice.
When you swoop at someone, mouse1 starts what I'll call a 'combo-chain,' and mouse2 will be knockback. Combo chains is essentially what what the auto-punch thing is now, but you have the hold down the button. A power struggle bar comes up, if the attacked person gets it in their favor, they either start CC'ing themselves or they can knock the person back. The struggle bar would last as long as the attacker was trying to Combo Chain the attacked player. If at all possible, I think how quickly a person breaks through in a combo-chain should be depending on where they were attacked from. If someone got head on'd, they should be able to break through in the struggle a lot quicker than say if they were hit in the back. When the player stopped the Combo Chain, the attacked player would be stunned for a moment. If the attacker hit mouse1 it would be a regular mouse2 knockback, but if they hit mouse2, then they'd do a throw which would send them as far as melee does now and do about that damage. But the stunned player could try to block or dodge. The thing to countering it is that there would be essentially two different kinds of blocking, regular blocks and dodges, so there'd be an added button in the mix. Blocking would nearly nullify whatever damage was done in a combo-chain, and it'd be up to the attacker to teleport away or they'd be set up to be hit back. Dodging would not have any effect on stopping a Combo Chain, it would only evade any knockback attacks. So say if someone went to knock back a player and they had the dodge button held down, the dodging player would automatically teleport to a favorable position with say, half the amount it costs for the teleportation so they could counter back with something. The knockbacks themselves would not really stun a player, just send them back with say, 10 damage, so the person knocking whoever back would have to be quick about moving or planning another assault or they could get hit back. I think -THAT'S- how melee should be, but I don't think anyone will listen.
When you swoop at someone, mouse1 starts what I'll call a 'combo-chain,' and mouse2 will be knockback. Combo chains is essentially what what the auto-punch thing is now, but you have the hold down the button. A power struggle bar comes up, if the attacked person gets it in their favor, they either start CC'ing themselves or they can knock the person back. The struggle bar would last as long as the attacker was trying to Combo Chain the attacked player. If at all possible, I think how quickly a person breaks through in a combo-chain should be depending on where they were attacked from. If someone got head on'd, they should be able to break through in the struggle a lot quicker than say if they were hit in the back. When the player stopped the Combo Chain, the attacked player would be stunned for a moment. If the attacker hit mouse1 it would be a regular mouse2 knockback, but if they hit mouse2, then they'd do a throw which would send them as far as melee does now and do about that damage. But the stunned player could try to block or dodge. The thing to countering it is that there would be essentially two different kinds of blocking, regular blocks and dodges, so there'd be an added button in the mix. Blocking would nearly nullify whatever damage was done in a combo-chain, and it'd be up to the attacker to teleport away or they'd be set up to be hit back. Dodging would not have any effect on stopping a Combo Chain, it would only evade any knockback attacks. So say if someone went to knock back a player and they had the dodge button held down, the dodging player would automatically teleport to a favorable position with say, half the amount it costs for the teleportation so they could counter back with something. The knockbacks themselves would not really stun a player, just send them back with say, 10 damage, so the person knocking whoever back would have to be quick about moving or planning another assault or they could get hit back. I think -THAT'S- how melee should be, but I don't think anyone will listen.
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The only thing I don't like, is that you have to charge your swoop. It says it may be changed, so i'm hoping it gets changed.
I like these types of postHalorin said:
I like your idea Halorin. If the beta 1.2 melee system flops over, I'll seriously concider it. Just that I spent countless hours on the current one, so I would atleast like to finish it and see how the completed product plays.
I just want to knowif the melee will be for it to be fast paced. The way it sounds in the little bit of info we got, it seems slower. And yea, swooping time does sound a little ***, but i know the esf team will change it since its just not close to the show at all.
Isn't there some cvar to remove the pitch limits? In order to do smooth loops and whatnot we would probably have to convert our euler(sp?) angles to quaternions, which I don't really know how to do, and I don't want to rip someone elses code...Epedemic_Optikz said:
I'll say it strait out, beta 1.2 melee is slower then beta 1.1 melee. I don't think we can really have it andHybrid said:
1) Have close combat
2) Give 56kers a chance
We tried to make the melee system fun regardless of the ping. Quite actually, most of the time when I get mastasurf to test with me, he has 400-500 ping (I'm usually always downloading/uploading anime), and he has no problem.
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Here's the log for anyone curious. Heavily edited.
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: why auto hitting?
PCJoe: Okay, first, the "prepunches" is setting up for the real melee action
PCJoe: We didnt really care for holding onto secondary fire
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: i like being the one who hits.. not.. oh hey look i hit him..
PCJoe: dont thinnk you just sit there and get ****ed up by the enemy
PCJoe: You just dont sit there and take **** like a *****
PCJoe: You can do SOMETHING, but that goes into the next phase of melee
PCJoe: which i cant talk about yet
PCJoe: Prepunches take about 1.2 seconds to throw 6 of them
PCJoe: it takes KI to do prepunches, its fast
PCJoe: and it's just to get the action started
Optional: will there be more keys required for melee now?
PCJoe: No
PCJoe: no extra keys required
PCJoe: we try to make everything as simple + easy as possible
PCJoe: but make it complex
Optional: oh
Optional: will it be like DMZ with punching and kickkin combos?
PCJoe: it will be nothing like dmz
PCJoe: i'll tell you this
PCJoe: when you prepunch, what happens
PCJoe: is that the models are locked
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: stunned in other words..
PCJoe: i actually start manipulating the characters bones and place them right ifnront of eachothers
PCJoe: so we can have close melee action
PCJoe: what about stunned?
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: that is what u meant no?
PCJoe: Like i said, you have no clue what the "stunned" time is for
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: model lock
PCJoe: no, model lock, as in
PCJoe: you know in hl, you put 2 models infront of eachother
PCJoe: not too pretty, certain
PCJoe: i go client side, and place the models onfront of eachother. We're going to hav some pretty complex moves.. For example, i wanted to implement one of friezas moves
PCJoe: you know when he grabbed vegeta with his tail
PCJoe: and whacked the **** out of his back?
PCJoe: we can do stuff like that
-]IoD[- Snow1586: q, the melee
PCJoe: k, you can go next, then Sonic
-]IoD[- Snow1586: first is auto unching
PCJoe: yes
-]IoD[- Snow1586: punching
-]IoD[- Snow1586: thats ALWAYS first or can u skip that
PCJoe: you cant skip it
PCJoe: if you see the next phases
PCJoe: you wont want to skip it
-]IoD[- Snow1586: then does something auto happen?
PCJoe: I cant really elaborate on the next phases
PCJoe: the next phases arnet automated
PCJoe: But i can talk about prepunches
-]IoD[- Snow1586: after auto punching, when thats done, does something else auto happen
PCJoe: is the next phase of melee, which i cant go into
PCJoe: well, it will switch to the next phase of melee
-]IoD[- Snow1586: so after that 1.1 melee goes in somewhat?
PCJoe: no, it's all non-automated
PCJoe: dont even think about 1.1 melee
PCJoe: the only thing it has in common
PCJoe: is the swoop
GMan: you mentioned 'locked models' and such
GMan: now, say, I'm frieza chocking someone with a tail or whatever
GMan: if I can't move, can someone beam the **** out of us?
GMan: blam, kameha. 2 kills.
PCJoe: sorry, i think i worded that wrong
PCJoe: When i said locked, i ment the models have a set offset between eachother
PCJoe: And i can manipulate / attach things to bones
PCJoe: And i can even get the bone positions in code
GMan: but, can we move when these things are happening?
GMan: like if theres a beam
GMan: im doing some combo move
GMan: im like
GMan: oh ****
GMan: gotta get out of the way
GMan: can I?
PCJoe: i think i want to make it so you dont get hurt by outside ****
PCJoe: no, you're locked in a fight with that person
GMan: but in a way thats also cheap
PCJoe: not really
GMan: like transforming is now
GMan: well
GMan: imagine this
PCJoe: you just cant trigger melee whenever
GMan: 3 ppl are chasing you
GMan: you do a combo thing to one guy
GMan: the other 2 cant do anything
PCJoe: ofcourse
PCJoe: but
PCJoe: after you finish your ****
PCJoe: 1) you might loose and then GET ****ed up
PCJoe: 2) you'll be open after all is said and done
PCJoe: and then they can **** you up
PCJoe: If it's a big problem
PCJoe: we can always change it
PCJoe: we had the whole melee system down on paper, so we need to change some stuff
Optional: 1) after the auto punching ****
Optional: can you target what part of the enemy body you want to hit?
Optional: like the head
Optional: or arm?
Sonic the Vampire: That is phase 2 -_-'
PCJoe: *nods*
PCJoe: autpunching is just for stun time
PCJoe: the next phases
PCJoe: get pretty complex
PCJoe: and have a lot of stuff. I'm a new coder, but i dont take months to code in simple **** like that
PCJoe: heh
Sonic the Vampire: Is there any difference between rapidly punching someone in the back or the front?
PCJoe: Atm, no
PCJoe: But, (going to into detail with prepunches)
PCJoe: I think i might make a back prepunch option
PCJoe: but atm, when you get prepunched, you move backwards
PCJoe: lets say you're moving backwards ( by the force of the punches )
PCJoe: and you hit a wall
PCJoe: you'll hit the wall, start playing a new hit animation, and take more damage from the melee punches
GMan: so it looks like ssj2 goku vs majin vegeta.
PCJoe: later i want to add fx with rocks flying out and whatnot
Optional: which will drain FPS :O
PCJoe: not really
PCJoe: only acouple rock particles, like powering up
Sonic the Vampire: Alright. So this stun time you were talking about
Sonic the Vampire: I am just trying to clear up misconceptions that by stunned you don't mean unable to respond to getting hit. You mean more along the lines of being locked into the fight
PCJoe: Since you dont sit there and take their ****
PCJoe: stun time just gives the other guy more time to do his ****
Sonic the Vampire: Stunned is a bad word to use though
PCJoe: yeah, it's kinda deceiving...
GMan: should say
GMan: melee initiation period
PCJoe: tough ****
grOOvy: Ok, I'll just butt in my suggestion: Everything (phase 1+2) works perfectly for me except the damn charging for the melee swoop.
grOOvy: I hate having to wait and charge for the initial swoop.
grOOvy: + making the prepunches secondary click isn't a bad idea either.
grOOvy: Anyway, that's all I had to say.
Sonic the Vampire: You said you can pull up to a certain number of auto punches
Sonic the Vampire: What determines how many punches you throw?
PCJoe: Okay, to swoop, you charge
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: well lets hope joe smartens up and gets rid of the whole auto hitting -_-
PCJoe: you stop punching
PCJoe: you can throw 6 punches that do stun time, and a max of 12 punches ( it will just stop melee there if you throw 12 )
PCJoe: when you PRESS fire
PCJoe: it stops it
PCJoe: yeah. IF you're a pussy, you can just do your 12 prepunches ( do very little dmg ) then try to run away
-end-
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: why auto hitting?
PCJoe: Okay, first, the "prepunches" is setting up for the real melee action
PCJoe: We didnt really care for holding onto secondary fire
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: i like being the one who hits.. not.. oh hey look i hit him..
PCJoe: dont thinnk you just sit there and get ****ed up by the enemy
PCJoe: You just dont sit there and take **** like a *****
PCJoe: You can do SOMETHING, but that goes into the next phase of melee
PCJoe: which i cant talk about yet
PCJoe: Prepunches take about 1.2 seconds to throw 6 of them
PCJoe: it takes KI to do prepunches, its fast
PCJoe: and it's just to get the action started
Optional: will there be more keys required for melee now?
PCJoe: No
PCJoe: no extra keys required
PCJoe: we try to make everything as simple + easy as possible
PCJoe: but make it complex
Optional: oh
Optional: will it be like DMZ with punching and kickkin combos?
PCJoe: it will be nothing like dmz
PCJoe: i'll tell you this
PCJoe: when you prepunch, what happens
PCJoe: is that the models are locked
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: stunned in other words..
PCJoe: i actually start manipulating the characters bones and place them right ifnront of eachothers
PCJoe: so we can have close melee action
PCJoe: what about stunned?
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: that is what u meant no?
PCJoe: Like i said, you have no clue what the "stunned" time is for
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: model lock
PCJoe: no, model lock, as in
PCJoe: you know in hl, you put 2 models infront of eachother
PCJoe: not too pretty, certain
PCJoe: i go client side, and place the models onfront of eachother. We're going to hav some pretty complex moves.. For example, i wanted to implement one of friezas moves
PCJoe: you know when he grabbed vegeta with his tail
PCJoe: and whacked the **** out of his back?
PCJoe: we can do stuff like that
-]IoD[- Snow1586: q, the melee
PCJoe: k, you can go next, then Sonic
-]IoD[- Snow1586: first is auto unching
PCJoe: yes
-]IoD[- Snow1586: punching
-]IoD[- Snow1586: thats ALWAYS first or can u skip that
PCJoe: you cant skip it
PCJoe: if you see the next phases
PCJoe: you wont want to skip it
-]IoD[- Snow1586: then does something auto happen?
PCJoe: I cant really elaborate on the next phases
PCJoe: the next phases arnet automated
PCJoe: But i can talk about prepunches
-]IoD[- Snow1586: after auto punching, when thats done, does something else auto happen
PCJoe: is the next phase of melee, which i cant go into
PCJoe: well, it will switch to the next phase of melee
-]IoD[- Snow1586: so after that 1.1 melee goes in somewhat?
PCJoe: no, it's all non-automated
PCJoe: dont even think about 1.1 melee
PCJoe: the only thing it has in common
PCJoe: is the swoop
GMan: you mentioned 'locked models' and such
GMan: now, say, I'm frieza chocking someone with a tail or whatever
GMan: if I can't move, can someone beam the **** out of us?
GMan: blam, kameha. 2 kills.
PCJoe: sorry, i think i worded that wrong
PCJoe: When i said locked, i ment the models have a set offset between eachother
PCJoe: And i can manipulate / attach things to bones
PCJoe: And i can even get the bone positions in code
GMan: but, can we move when these things are happening?
GMan: like if theres a beam
GMan: im doing some combo move
GMan: im like
GMan: oh ****
GMan: gotta get out of the way
GMan: can I?
PCJoe: i think i want to make it so you dont get hurt by outside ****
PCJoe: no, you're locked in a fight with that person
GMan: but in a way thats also cheap
PCJoe: not really
GMan: like transforming is now
GMan: well
GMan: imagine this
PCJoe: you just cant trigger melee whenever
GMan: 3 ppl are chasing you
GMan: you do a combo thing to one guy
GMan: the other 2 cant do anything
PCJoe: ofcourse
PCJoe: but
PCJoe: after you finish your ****
PCJoe: 1) you might loose and then GET ****ed up
PCJoe: 2) you'll be open after all is said and done
PCJoe: and then they can **** you up
PCJoe: If it's a big problem
PCJoe: we can always change it
PCJoe: we had the whole melee system down on paper, so we need to change some stuff
Optional: 1) after the auto punching ****
Optional: can you target what part of the enemy body you want to hit?
Optional: like the head
Optional: or arm?
Sonic the Vampire: That is phase 2 -_-'
PCJoe: *nods*
PCJoe: autpunching is just for stun time
PCJoe: the next phases
PCJoe: get pretty complex
PCJoe: and have a lot of stuff. I'm a new coder, but i dont take months to code in simple **** like that
PCJoe: heh
Sonic the Vampire: Is there any difference between rapidly punching someone in the back or the front?
PCJoe: Atm, no
PCJoe: But, (going to into detail with prepunches)
PCJoe: I think i might make a back prepunch option
PCJoe: but atm, when you get prepunched, you move backwards
PCJoe: lets say you're moving backwards ( by the force of the punches )
PCJoe: and you hit a wall
PCJoe: you'll hit the wall, start playing a new hit animation, and take more damage from the melee punches
GMan: so it looks like ssj2 goku vs majin vegeta.
PCJoe: later i want to add fx with rocks flying out and whatnot
Optional: which will drain FPS :O
PCJoe: not really
PCJoe: only acouple rock particles, like powering up
Sonic the Vampire: Alright. So this stun time you were talking about
Sonic the Vampire: I am just trying to clear up misconceptions that by stunned you don't mean unable to respond to getting hit. You mean more along the lines of being locked into the fight
PCJoe: Since you dont sit there and take their ****
PCJoe: stun time just gives the other guy more time to do his ****
Sonic the Vampire: Stunned is a bad word to use though
PCJoe: yeah, it's kinda deceiving...
GMan: should say
GMan: melee initiation period
PCJoe: tough ****
grOOvy: Ok, I'll just butt in my suggestion: Everything (phase 1+2) works perfectly for me except the damn charging for the melee swoop.
grOOvy: I hate having to wait and charge for the initial swoop.
grOOvy: + making the prepunches secondary click isn't a bad idea either.
grOOvy: Anyway, that's all I had to say.
Sonic the Vampire: You said you can pull up to a certain number of auto punches
Sonic the Vampire: What determines how many punches you throw?
PCJoe: Okay, to swoop, you charge
~{ape}~Majin Saiyajin: well lets hope joe smartens up and gets rid of the whole auto hitting -_-
PCJoe: you stop punching
PCJoe: you can throw 6 punches that do stun time, and a max of 12 punches ( it will just stop melee there if you throw 12 )
PCJoe: when you PRESS fire
PCJoe: it stops it
PCJoe: yeah. IF you're a pussy, you can just do your 12 prepunches ( do very little dmg ) then try to run away
-end-
Since we don't have A LOT of details about this subject, there isn't much to comment on. If someone melees you, they autopunch, maybe if you hit them head on they have an easier chance of countering and making it their own move, that way swooping and hitting from the back and side is still more effective. Secondly, maybe charging the swoop will get rid of HOWers since maybe you charge the swoop and lose the ki ahead of time and while swooping you don't lose ki. Anyway, this isn't really enough information to make a judgment on at all, we would have to know what happens after the autopunches and actually seem them in action before deciding anything. Keep us posted guys.
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PcJoe, will it like go to a side view when you start to fight fast?
and will there be explosions when you knock back someone to a wall or
into the water (a giant splash effect) ?
and will there be explosions when you knock back someone to a wall or
into the water (a giant splash effect) ?