Melee on main page.

[Wizard's Curse]

I cant really comment without seeing the whole melee system ... I think it will pwn tho ... we might think "omg that is ghey!" now but when we see the big picture we'll say "lol I was a n00b at imagining how melee whould be!"

All I can say is ... awsome work guys ... keep the pics comming ... but we'd apreciate clips too

I hope it gets finished soon :laff::yes:

 

[Darksun]

Those better be some INSANELY fast punches to be able to hit someone 12 times, or else I would feel powerless as I sat there and took medium-paced punches for about 8 seconds or so which did 3 or so damage a piece, and THEN I was stunned for 3 seconds to be thrown into a cliff or something for who knows how much damage.

If you've ever played Ledgends, you'll see that the game can still be VERY fast with punches & knock aways. Legends is even faster than ESF, so I don't think the speed of thepunches will be a problem. And, this is, after all, Dragon Ball Z. When are the punches NOT insanely fast?

 

[Trov]

Meh, don't want to comment just yet. Atleast not until I see a video.

But I guess I will comment after all.

*Takes a deep breath* From what I've read so far, it seems a change for better. I really want to know more about the melee so i can really judge it.

Anyways, the charge swoop seems interesting, I've always wanted to fly swoop speed whenever I want. I really wish the target sign was still there though, so I won't lose my target so easily in a crowded public server.

Autopunching is something I have to see in video before I judge it, but it all seems good so far.

ESF Team, Keep up the kickass work.

 

[Pain]

would be funny if you PL is higher than your opponents by x amount, all their punches go wizzing by your head and they cant hit you for some reason!! lol

 

[Hibiki]

Here, let me 'change my context'. Maybe then I won't have my head up my ass.


Charged swooping: I don't really remember someone stopping to charge up ki to swoop in DBZ for any longer than about .0000000025 seconds. People would seemingly travel the globe off one swoop, even back in the Saiyan Saga. So if I have to wait the time it would take to fire a fully charged generic ki blast to get a full swoop as it is now, I'm going to be highly upset. I don't see a reason to have it be charged anyway, it's fine like it is. No targetting is double-edged in that I won't have to go through cumbersome steps of clicking on someone to get around, but also when I'm in a serious melee competition with someone and there's a lot of people in the server, it will be that much harder to see my 'target.' So I don't know how I'll feel about that.

Auto-punches: I think that whole idea should be scrapped, that's just my opinion. I have no idea on what would replace it, but it just sounds wrong to me. Those better be some INSANELY fast punches to be able to hit someone 12 times, or else I would feel powerless as I sat there and took medium-paced punches for about 8 seconds or so which did 3 or so damage a piece, and THEN I was stunned for 3 seconds to be thrown into a cliff or something for who knows how much damage. I'd rather have it to where when you go to swoop at someone, one button would start these 'punches', and the other would be how melee is now when you knocked someone back, but maybe not as far. How this would be blocked or whatever is something that I can't come up with right now, maybe I'll edit the post.

It just seems to me that melee is going downhill with these additions. The word cumbersome just seems to fit it best for me. I want the game to be as fast paced as possible, but I only see it limping along with how things look now. I like whoever's rock paper scissors style, but that would end up adding another button in dodge. I have a five button mouse, so I could manage but other people may not be so fortunate.

You said melee is subject to change. The way it is now needs to be more or less thrown out entirely, if you ask me. In fact, yes, ASK me. Talk to me in private about this, or someone who considers themselves to be in the upper echelon of melee players.

Keep the game fast. Fast is fun, slow is slum.

wow there mr smarty pants u seem to know everything about melee even though whats said is just the first step of actualy getting into melee

i mean come on people do u honistly think its just fly in auto punch and ur done??


does that sound advanced to anyone? i sure hope it doesnt because thats not what melee is

auto punching is simple a setup to the REAL melee

 

[-=[EEF]=-Ghost]

Just a few comments to spice things up a bit:

1. I think the only way that they can successfully make the 'charged-swoop' work is if they decreased the amount of ki it takes and the time it charges(assuming that it takes the same amount as 1.1). Maybe as fast as Vegetas renzoku(rapid shot).

2. As for the no target thing...Maybe you guys should make it so that when you hit your opponent, an arrow floats over his head(or sompthing like that) for a few seconds(10 tops) so that you wont lose track of your opponent.

Thos are my two cents. Does anyone agree? :yes::no:

 

[Dalte89]

PcJoe, When you are doing a combo and then knock away the person and then you follow then up will it be teleporting or a faster swoop?

Also I was wondering if you guys can play and explosion for when you melee someone into the water or into the floor like in the show.

Also when you block, will it be the standard block or will it be a accordingly block. Like a right arm will block a right punch and so on?

Also are you guys thinking of releasing a video for this new melee?

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

i mean come on people do u honistly think its just fly in auto punch and ur done??


does that sound advanced to anyone? i sure hope it doesnt because thats not what melee is

auto punching is simple a setup to the REAL melee

The issue is that the "real" melee takes place while one opponent can't move. Wow, isn't that just great? Sure, it'll probably look really cool, but it's frustrating enough watching your character fly across the level. Watching him get pummeled in some fancy way will lose appeal over time.

I'll just look forward to hearing about what happens if two people go head to head. That sounds more interesting than just being pummeled to a pulp in a way that makes you go "oooh!" and "ahhhh!"

Still, I'll look forward to hearing more about it in the future. We may all be misunderstanding what they mean to tell us about the auto punching system.

 

[Halorin]

First of all, it was wrong of you to get all condescending on me with your post Hibiki. I tried changing my attitude to be more constructive or whatever, and you still have to try to come down on me. I didn't say I knew everything about melee, so don't act like I did. And did you even read anything of what I said besides throwing it off to the side as jumping the gun? "honistly." Try not to put the foot in your mouth next time you open it. And I won't mention all of the if's I put in my post, going off what I perceived the primary encounters with melee. So who's really the one jumping said gun.. Get a new cause other than trying to slander someone who's trying to get a better understanding on what was said.

Anyway, I gave my opinion on how fighting should be, and I have yet to see someone really respond to it. What does anyone think of my ideas?

 

[Majin_You]

-_-

I think most of you are falling prey to a lot of misconceptions generated by how you think the description of the melee [the preliminary part of it] will look in-game. How can you, at all, be certain that the person on the receiving end of the pre-punches can't do anything? You CAN'T be certain of that. As for the "Threat caused by AFK's" concern: it's not my place to describe the melee system (as it is) in depth, but know that people who are AFK are still free kills, if that's how you operate.

And I feel I should also remind you guys that you can't hassle each other for your opinions. If you post constructively and support your opinion (like Halorin has been doing), more power to you, but let one's opinion remain his. I don't want to have to see this thread die so quickly, nor do I want to hand out warnings.

 

[Cyfore]

i dont see why some people are saying that the autopunch melee is too simple. think about the current melee, target, swoop and hold right click, if youre close enough you hit him. WOW thats really complicated. but when you get good at it you can do things that are indeed magical. so just wait until you know everything about it until you critcize it. mastasurf even said that theres lots more so why is there so much criticism about a small portion of the whole dilly.

oh yeah

GOOD JOB ESF CREW!!!

 

[Barney's Soul]

it is compelcated, cause 75% of te esf comutity dont no how to target somthing :/

i think te chagre for swoop and stun is to slow paced for esf, its makes me think of bfp D: cause noobies wil just charge wit te autopunch and sstum then beemspam (there needs to be a counter to nooblets wit high pl beem spaming to =/)

 

[Halorin]

"You're telling me to wait until all the information is out, basically, when it seems the ESF team doesn't even have all the information together yet. I just gave my opinion on what I've been given."

"I also don't like it when people use, "Well they didn't say everything" as an excuse. I'd rather not know anything at all than to know one quarter of it which makes it -all- sound retarded, in my opinion."

Since some people aren't astute readers, I'll go ahead and re-emphasize things off some of my posts. If you want to give the impression that you don't want people commenting on how melee will work because not all of the information is there, then don't bother posting any information at all. Are you saying that we shouldn't respond at all? Or that we shouldn't speculate? Another thing is, they said it was all subject to change, so we SHOULDN'T give our opinions on what they've shown so that we can help shape the new melee into something we all might like?

Because if that's the case, then don't bother showing us anything, ESF team. Simply just release 1.2 in whatever fashion you want, but don't be surprised if you get chewed out about changes that could have been made in the development cycle if you opened your eyes to things you might have wanted to hear.

When I make music, I take people's opinions, good and bad. I'll send someone the first verse to a song and ask them what they think, and they'll give me opinions about how not only the first verse should, but also how the rest of the song should be, that is if they have any problems with it. I think the same principle works here.

If they haven't laid all the groundwork out, then shouldn't people try to help them by giving them their opinions of how it should be entirely? Maybe they'll take someone's idea and change it to something even better that no one's thought of. Did anyone ever think of that?

Oh well, ignore sensical suggestion if you want. What do I know..

 

[Pcjoe]

Woo, where to start...

First, going along with what Sephiroth_Renzo said

ah nice, that way we can set our own amounts and not constantly complain that it could do with a bit of tweaking to make it right heh.

We practically have a cvar for everything (excluding the damage values). Prepuches too slow? No problem, just set the cvar to a lower value.

Halorin, the main reason I went off at you is because your whole post was just you whining and *****ing about "autopunches". Don't get me wrong, you're a nice guy, I like you, it just gets me agrivated.

It says for up to a maximum of 3 seconds. How quick are these auto-punches supposed to be?

Each prepunch takes 0.2 seconds, so 1.2 seconds to throw 6 punches. Like i said above, too slow for you? Set it to 0.1 or something.

how it sounds to me when I see the term 'auto-punch.' Perhaps you should have a swoop hit start this auto-punch thing for a stun somehow.

Oh, so it gives you a sense of accomplishment if you have to hold onto secondary fire? Sorry for making life easy, it won't happen again

Pain...

yea pcjoe i guess im retarted for commenting on the slight bit of material that was released for the purpose of.... not commenting on right?

I'm not a people person, which is probably why i never get e-mails . It just pisses me off when people talk **** and can't back it up. You see "autopunch" and
1) Think that's the whole melle system
2) Then have the nerve to say "autopunch!! yea lots of skill needed there!!!"
You have some selective reading,

Tonight I will introduce you to the first couple stages of advanced melee

First = 1, beginning, start. Don't think i really have to go on..

Back to Halorin...

If it all starts with something that's more or less automatic, then how skilled could it be? I also don't like it when people use, "Well they didn't say everything" as an excuse. I'd rather not know anything at all than to know one quarter of it which makes it -all- sound retarded, in my opinion.

Like i said above, do you really want to hold onto secondary fire that bad? I could have that arranged for you, make another cvar called "sv_halorin_melee" or something -_-. Sorry for trying to share some information about the melee system, we'll be sure not to update the main page for months

If there's a possibility of me being stunned for 3 seconds off of an automatic attack, I won't play. It's that simple. How fun would Budokai be if whenever someone got so close, magically one person would be able to punch them without a button press to stun them for a max of 3 seconds with 6 punches, and a max of 12 punches.

Assuming stuff again. You said that you're not acting like you know everything about it, but you're sure as hell talking like it. I'm rather upset not too many people speculated on the melee system. Maybe you would figure "Hey, maybe I can do more then get the **** kicked out of me in my stun time", but i guess not.

I just want to help make the game better, but let's just wait and see how fun it is to have choices taken away from you with who you want to hit, and Lord knows whatever other bull**** that's still behind the curtain.

You just want to make the game better? You forgot the [sarcastic] tags The closest thing to "help" is telling us we should make the players press secondary fire, instead it attacking by its self. And like I said before, if you're that bent on using a button, I'll have that arranged just for your won ID.
And yeah, it's great, after you're stunned
[goes into halorins frame of mind with not as good grammer ]You just sit there and take it like a *****[end of halorins frame of mind]
I'll tell you strait out, you dont just sit there and take hits like a *****. What CAN you do? You'll figure that out when we release more of the melee outline. For now you can speculate on the possibilities, I wont get mad at that

Hyperblade...

Bummer, why didn't you leave the melee of 1.2 as a suprise
Like, when the installer released you would add a readme too it about the new melee systeem.
You would also reduce the comments

So you're also for us not updating the page? I guess you must like thinking we're dead

SSJ Shin Carl...

Joe, Harsens. I see where you are going with this.

Not trying to take glory, but I'm the only one working on the melee system, HarSens is working on other things (l33t **** too).

The one thing I wanted to cut down on, randomness. If we wanted to do that we should just code in roll the dice and let that pick the winner of the fight.

Back to Halorin

Charged swooping: I don't really remember someone stopping to charge up ki to swoop in DBZ for any longer than about .0000000025 seconds. People would seemingly travel the globe off one swoop, even back in the Saiyan Saga. So if I have to wait the time it would take to fire a fully charged generic ki blast to get a full swoop as it is now, I'm going to be highly upset. I don't see a reason to have it be charged anyway, it's fine like it is. No targetting is double-edged in that I won't have to go through cumbersome steps of clicking on someone to get around, but also when I'm in a serious melee competition with someone and there's a lot of people in the server, it will be that much harder to see my 'target.' So I don't know how I'll feel about that.

Much better post then before . I don't remember goku taking 10 seconds to go ssj, hell, i dont remember fights finishing in less then a minute in DBZ either. W need to change things for gameplay purposes. Along with the charged swoop, I'll admit, i dont like it too much, i really want to find a better alternative. The old beta 1.1 swoop wont do because this melee system is based on close combat, not swooping action. We want to make the swoop a little harder/slower, so if you want to use beams, you won't be pounded by a meleers overwhelming speed. Old way of swooping is too fast, new way is too slow and annoying. We need to find a nice inbetween...

UltraPerfectCell...

If you watched the video (as I know you did), then you saw how fast the punches were. After that he got thrown... I still don't like the idea though. Me and scorcher were gonna close off his server and practice to become some of the best.. but now it looks like I'll just have to goto PT's server, play for 5 minutes and I've got it all down pat! -_-'

I like how you think
"Hey, maybe prepunches is linked to throwing/other things?"

Dalte89...

PcJoe, When you are doing a combo and then knock away the person and then you follow then up will it be teleporting or a faster swoop?

I don't know, didn't implement it yet What do you think?

Also when you block, will it be the standard block or will it be a accordingly block. Like a right arm will block a right punch and so on?

I cant really say anything on that yet, sorry.

Also are you guys thinking of releasing a video for this new melee?

Videos/pictures should come later as we release information about the later phases of melee.

Sonic Boyster

The issue is that the "real" melee takes place while one opponent can't move. Wow, isn't that just great? Sure, it'll probably look really cool, but it's frustrating enough watching your character fly across the level. Watching him get pummeled in some fancy way will lose appeal over time.

Who said the oppenent cant move I guess the name "stun time" is kinda deceiving, but like i said to Halorin, you just dont sit there and take hits like a *****.

Majin_You, I completly agree with your post.

i dont see why some people are saying that the autopunch melee is too simple. think about the current melee, target, swoop and hold right click, if youre close enough you hit him. WOW thats really complicated. but when you get good at it you can do things that are indeed magical. so just wait until you know everything about it until you critcize it. mastasurf even said that theres lots more so why is there so much criticism about a small portion of the whole dilly.

thanks (not just quoting this because you said good job), i like the fact that you read the "there's a lot more to come" part, and not judging it like melee is going to be a bunch of automated punches. Like I said before, I like to stay away from randomness, but I also like to stay away from automated stuff (when possible). When we release information about the next phases of melee, feel free to suggest/comment. Don't just ***** and whine though, since I will get pissed and flame you back. Mastasurf, Darktooth, and myself have spent a lot of time and effort in this melee system. We don't appreciate people calling it **** and not comming up with anything better.


Woo, think that's it... If I missed anything / you would like any questions answered just post...

 

[Darksun]

Anyway, I gave my opinion on how fighting should be, and I have yet to see someone really respond to it. What does anyone think of my ideas?

Charge Melee: yeah, It doesn't make a whole lotta sense in terms of the show (they never really "charge" to GO anywhere) But maybe it will work like this: tab button, swoop short distance. Charge, swoop longer distance. THAT might be interesting.

Auto punch: I think a lot of "experts" are over critizizing this move. the only REAL difference is that you aren't holding a button down. THAT'S IT. I mean, when I found out that I was supposed to hold the button down for melee attack, my friends and I referred to it as "auto melee".

Also, it is true that there may be MANY ways for people to get out of a melee attack. Again, if it's anything like Legends, you will be able to counter a melee & counter a counter (all in less than 2 seconds) I think that would ROCK. I think it's good that they simplified the initial melee encounter & added another set of skills you will need in melee. I would like to be good at close combat and ok at long distance melee, instead of being stuck in the "You don't have THIS skill, you can't win". That way people can have a much wider veriety of fighting styles, since beams don't really cut it. (I mean, I'm no expert, and still use melee to counter beams. with good results!)

Anyways, those are things to consider.

 

[Pcjoe]

"You're telling me to wait until all the information is out, basically, when it seems the ESF team doesn't even have all the information together yet. I just gave my opinion on what I've been given."

"I also don't like it when people use, "Well they didn't say everything" as an excuse. I'd rather not know anything at all than to know one quarter of it which makes it -all- sound retarded, in my opinion."

Since some people aren't astute readers, I'll go ahead and re-emphasize things off some of my posts. If you want to give the impression that you don't want people commenting on how melee will work because not all of the information is there, then don't bother posting any information at all. Are you saying that we shouldn't respond at all? Or that we shouldn't speculate? Another thing is, they said it was all subject to change, so we SHOULDN'T give our opinions on what they've shown so that we can help shape the new melee into something we all might like?

Because if that's the case, then don't bother showing us anything, ESF team. Simply just release 1.2 in whatever fashion you want, but don't be surprised if you get chewed out about changes that could have been made in the development cycle if you opened your eyes to things you might have wanted to hear.

When I make music, I take people's opinions, good and bad. I'll send someone the first verse to a song and ask them what they think, and they'll give me opinions about how not only the first verse should, but also how the rest of the song should be, that is if they have any problems with it. I think the same principle works here.

If they haven't laid all the groundwork out, then shouldn't people try to help them by giving them their opinions of how it should be entirely? Maybe they'll take someone's idea and change it to something even better that no one's thought of. Did anyone ever think of that?

Oh well, ignore sensical suggestion if you want. What do I know..

Main emphasis on

Are you saying that we shouldn't respond at all? Or that we shouldn't speculate? Another thing is, they said it was all subject to change, so we SHOULDN'T give our opinions on what they've shown so that we can help shape the new melee into something we all might like?

I want you to speculate, and if possible, give suggestions. What I DON'T want is your first couple post with you *****ing with your random assumptions.
Yes, it is all subject to change, you SHOULD give your opinions. I do get angry when people don't give opinions, then say it's complete ****.

 

[Halorin]

I gave my opinions. Have you given any sort of response?

 

[Pcjoe]

Charge Melee: yeah, It doesn't make a whole lotta sense in terms of the show (they never really "charge" to GO anywhere) But maybe it will work like this: tab button, swoop short distance. Charge, swoop longer distance. THAT might be interesting.

Yeah, the only cool thing about charge is that the longer you charge it the further you go ( maxed out it goes further then the beta 1.1 swoop ). Still kinda annoying, but like I said before, the beta 1.1 swooping action is too fast. We don't want this melee system based on people swooping around in circles. We also want it to be easy to come up to someone and swoop them.

 

[Pcjoe]

I gave my opinions. Have you given any sort of response?

Sorry, I probably skipped over them by accident. Post them again please.

 

[GMan]

There should be no 'fanbois' for this news. The entire concept so far is disgraceful. It's a good thing they told us about it before they released it, maybe they will listen to some of us and not make 1.2 melee boring and rediculous.

If there is another news release later and it has the word 'automatic' in it someone's gotta die. Simple.

P.S. - joe, I was kidding on aim -_-