Melee on main page.

[[SoB]-Bones-]

I think current Melee system is cool , but could be better , may these changes make the game different , dont know ... may better , may not ~ we will see ...
my opinion is : melee is ok in 1.1 but in head ons the could start a struggle and so on , may with different techiques ~ throw or stun or put a stick in ass or something ~

 

[Cold Steel]

Phew..after reading heaps of posts that where made in one night, i couldn't find this anywhere, If you hit someone in the face or crutch, will it do more damage then when you hit someone's shoulder or arm?

 

[RaVe]

Nah atm 12 dmg at any part of the body or something....dont know much because I just skimmed through the main page hehe....

BTW you idiot-proofed melee and made it high-ping friendly?? woohoo! Now I don't have to worry about being pweened....much

Now I can use HLs server-side client-prediction to cause mass mayhem!

As for what Darktooth said....I think you're gonna throw me into 'Gimme 1.2 asap mode' soon....my mouth is watering already....

EDIT : I knew it....that video just showed the early phases of melee....I really need to lay off the premonitions thing....

 

[ScavengeR]

Autopuching was designed the way it was to accomplish 3 things.
1. Set up the next stages of melee
2. In short, Idiot proof melee.
Long: Allow less skilled players who can't figure out advanced melee (or RTFM) to still use melee. The damage they inflict will be nowhere near what it would be if the whole system is utilized, but it's better than nothing.
3. Allow people who don't feel like using the full melee system to just "hit and run". This can be considered a weaker version of beta 1.1 melee.

So its a combo system, which is good
But what i dont get is if advanced melee is something that will take skill, i don't see how slowing things down for the disadvantaged 56kers can help things. Mb im wrong and i cant see the whole picture, but isnt that why Me's bots-of-much-good r there for?

 

[Darksun]

I don't know how that could be added without throwing in 3 more buttons that would make keyboard uncomfortable

maybe, It would probably be better to stick to 2 main types of melee. (the 2 mouse buttons) But I definately think there should be an escape move like legends. Basicly: while you are being hit or blocking a combo, you can press a teleport and a direction, and your character will teleport a very short distance, out of the combo and knock away the attacker (far away). This attack would use TONS of ki. I'm thinkin at least HALF, maybe it would automaticly leave you with a tiny bit left. Or maybe whenever the attacker does the final knock-away manuever, the defender has a chance to escape if they time it right & have enough ki. I dunno.

Hitting mouse1 would make you swoop in a certain way, but mouse2 would make you swoop in another. Once the player was close enough, you could see which way they're trying to attack so you could hit the right button.

Interesting. I would make the diference pretty obvious. Like the shape of the aura or something. Because when someone is whizzing around you, you can't tell jack. Also, what would these 2 swoops do? Are they basicly diferent ways to start a Combo?

The one thing I can't come to a conclusion on is: how to switch from one type of attack to the next, in the middle of a melee, so that you can make a combo, but it won't be cheap. I would love to start punching somone really quick, send them flying, follow them, hit them with a couple of hard "stunning" hits, then slam em into the ground.

 

[Eekhoorn]

I read the main page and the new melee worked just as i expected it would (the first part anyway) after carefully examining earlier released footage, except for the charging swoops that is

I like to throw in my 2 cents now:

-If you want things to slow down, why not make the swoop slower? instead of charging it.
-And why not make it so that you have to hold primary to swoop and subsequently autopunch, releasing it will make you stop swooping/autopunching.
-For the advanced part, you need buttons, which my ideas dont really provide right now I have come up with the following: press secondary+direction x to pull of fancy @ss move nr. x that way you can have a lot of advanced moves.

I hope this made sense, if not i'll try elaborate.


Good Job ESF Team! :yes:

 

[Halorin]

I guess I must have not been too clear with something.

It's like this, Darksun. Say if there were two different kinds of swoop, like I said. Mouse1 would be the chain-combo swoop, and Mouse2 would be the knockback.

Say if you hit and held down Mouse1 and you attacked someone, you'd start punching them like the ESF team referred to with auto-punching (I just think chain-combo is a much better word than auto-punch). You'd be able to hold this attack for a moment or so and push them back with it, doing a small amount of damage. There'd a struggle bar that could quickly start to turn in the favor of the attacked, so the attacker would have to get off it quick or face getting countered. I guess this is where you'd far teleport thing could come into play. Within these chain-combo thing is how the deeper combos start. After you stop CC'ing, and if nothing got countered, the player would be stunned, and here's the part where either you could start CC'ing and do more damage, with say a different animation, or you could go for a throw or grapple. I'd assume these attacks would be unique to each player, but maybe dev times wouldn't allow for that.

Mouse2's swoop would cause knockbacks on attack, but it wouldn't be like how it is now. It would just send someone back say on 1/3 or 1/4 the distance, and there'd be no delay in recovery time for the player, or if anything, just that little air flip thing that you do now if you don't hit a wall.


I just thought that you could use these in combination with teleports and that whole boosted swoop thing people had in mind to create some deep and exciting melee styles. With my melee concept, it would be possible to do that little series of attacks that you came up with, Darksun, that is if you're not countered in some way. Chain Combo, Knockback, Boost Swoop in to Chain Combo again (the stronger style if you could catch the player while he was still being knocked back or flipping out of the momentum), then your throw into a cliff. Ownership?

So basically, Mouse1 = CC'ing swoop that opened up to deeper combo's and throws. Mouse2 = Knockback swoop. I figured this would be best for keeping a player at bay while you were focusing on another.

I think the beauty of the defense system is that it would open up some more hand-eye coordination in seeing what your enemy is trying to hit you with. It also balances out most attacks so that everything has a purpose. No unneed ed attacks, just enough variety to feed someone's imagination in offense or defense.

 

[Rick Hunter]

With a little bit of Eekhoorn in mind ...

How about if you make swoop not chargeable but let's say

You map it to a key ... and whenever you use it, you swoop for as long as you hold tbat key OR as long as you have ki left ... and while holding it your KI consumes hmm let's say as Final Blast consumes ki.

That way you can't use it way too many times without gaining ki again and you can control or do short swoops or one long swoop but then be at the mercy of whoever is close to you.

 

[Pcjoe]

So its a combo system, which is :yes:
But what i dont get is if advanced melee is something that will take skill, i don't see how slowing things down for the disadvantaged 56kers can help things. Mb im wrong and i cant see the whole picture, but isnt that why Me's bots-of-much-good r there for?

We arn't "slowing it down", we just planned it so people with fast reactions on 56k can do just as good as a time as someone with 70 ping.

I should probably post more, but I read harolin's post along with this one, and i completly lost my train of thought... I'll post when I get home...

 

[Dalte89]

PcJoe what about sprite explosions for when hit into ground and when hit into water (big splash)


Also waht about the walljumps ? DO you have any pics or info on that?

 

[Darksun]

K, I see. The one thing I'd be careful of is making sure the knock away (KA) swoop does less damage than the CC. Don't want to get stuck in the same rut again.
Also, the KA Head-on should start a power (grapple type) melee struggle. whereas the double CC Head-on swoop could start a flash (high speed hit type) melee struggle. and if you have 2 different types of swoops head-on, how about both take equal damage and knock-back?

After you stop CC'ing, and if nothing got countered, the player would be stunned, and here's the part where either you could start CC'ing and do more damage, with say a different animation, or you could go for a throw or grapple. I'd assume these attacks would be unique to each player, but maybe dev times wouldn't allow for that.

How would you initiate the throw/grapple?

sprite explosions for when hit into ground and when hit into water

definately... the game need DBZ style big dust clouds.

 

[Crackman]

I just thought of a cool idea, but it would take time. How about when you trans, you gain an extra melee move. For example for fanatics goku could quickly change ssj3 and do dragon fist for the finisher of a combo. You could change trunks so he does normal melee, but his finisher would be using his sword. Frieza could use his tail and I'm sure there are other melee moves that could be thought of for the other people. Just a thought, but it could be pretty cool.

 

[!XxShAdOwxX!]

This is my suggestion on the charge, I think it is a balance between what we have now and what we will, what do you think?

How it Works
If a player hits Mouse1 they start flying fairly fast. As the bar makes its way up the faster the player moves although loses more ki.

How it stops
You stop swooping when, you either hit Mouse1 again, run out of ki or the bar gets to the end. If that player wants to start swooping again they will have to start slower again and work their way up.

Optional Feature

Teleporting
Maybe if you want you can add stuff like teleporting during a swoop, like in DBZ, for each time you teleport the bar gets a chunk higher, say 1/3 (can be changed). With the teleport in there it would be cool because if they want to start fast then they hit the Mouse1 then teleport, they will go faster, but at a loss of more ki and loss of swoop time.

Why this is good
Well this is good because it would be what PcJoe said he wanted, a medium in between beta 1.1 and the charge swoop that so far is going into 1.2. Why this is a medium, because you swoop like beta 1.1 (instantly), and like 1.2 because the bar can limit your speed, ki usage and length of swoop. Plus adding the teleporting would add even more skill and make it like the show where when they swoop they teleport to pick up speed. As you can see its not that complicated like you wanted it, because its just some tweaks of the beta 1.1 swoop with some things that are already used ingame (beam charge bar, teleporting).

Final Thoughts
Anyways thats just my thought on the swoop, I know it would just be getting used to it and it would be fine, *looks at Hibiki * and it probably would do, I think this would be a lot of fun. Although since I have never tried it I wouldn't know if it would make it unfair and maybe hard to hit, but I'm sure you skilled players out there would be able to, but this system is supposed to help newbies too. Any suggestions, errors in logic or comments?

Woh long post :tired:

 

[sub]

@!XxShAdOwxX!
That would need to be tweaked a little. For example, what if when im in the middle of a swoop and i let go becuase i want to go that speed, but then somone swoops towards me and i want to increase it. You would need to have a way to continue to increase speed again. Also, being able to somhow slow down would be great and add a lot more strategy to the game. Another thing is when the bar gets full, you stop swooping? I think when it gets full, you shouldnt be able to go any faster, but you shouldnt stop swooping. Its a nice idea and i like it better then the other swoooping idea suggested. :yes:

 

[imported_Mystix]

@Darksun: Dust clouds = FPS problems, there enough FPS problems with ESF as it is, so I don't think it would be such a good idea, unless there is an option to turn it off and on, then, I guess it will work. :smile:

I've decided to have faith in the team. I'm pretty sure they will make the best choices and i'm pretty sure that they will considering taking out charged swooping.

 

[!XxShAdOwxX!]

@!XxShAdOwxX!
That would need to be tweaked a little. For example, what if when im in the middle of a swoop and i let go becuase i want to go that speed, but then somone swoops towards me and i want to increase it. You would need to have a way to continue to increase speed again. Also, being able to somhow slow down would be great and add a lot more strategy to the game. Another thing is when the bar gets full, you stop swooping? I think when it gets full, you shouldnt be able to go any faster, but you shouldnt stop swooping. Its a nice idea and i like it better then the other swoooping idea suggested. :yes:

It isn't like that, once you hit mouse one the bar keeps going, you can't stop at that speed. But I guess it could use tweaking as in maybe it should be like that, so that you can stop it... just off the top of my head I can say that maybe hit Mouse1 (once) to go, the bar goes higher, the higher it is the faster you go, once you hit Mouse2 you go at that speed and it finishes the bar with the intervals that that speed goes. But thats a good point . I'll try to think of a fix for that later.

 

[sub]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hybrid
@!XxShAdOwxX!
That would need to be tweaked a little. For example, what if when im in the middle of a swoop and i let go becuase i want to go that speed, but then somone swoops towards me and i want to increase it. You would need to have a way to continue to increase speed again. Also, being able to somhow slow down would be great and add a lot more strategy to the game. Another thing is when the bar gets full, you stop swooping? I think when it gets full, you shouldnt be able to go any faster, but you shouldnt stop swooping. Its a nice idea and i like it better then the other swoooping idea suggested.
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It isn't like that, once you hit mouse one the bar keeps going, you can't stop at that speed. But I guess it could use tweaking as in maybe it should be like that, so that you can stop it... just off the top of my head I can say that maybe hit Mouse1 (once) to go, the bar goes higher, the higher it is the faster you go, once you hit Mouse2 you go at that speed and it finishes the bar with the intervals that that speed goes. But thats a good point . I'll try to think of a fix for that later.

Sry, i must of read it wrong. Anyway, great idea and i hope they use it in the next version.

 

[Halorin]

Darksun:

In my melee concept after you CC'd someone and if you stopped before they could bring the bar in their favor, they'd be stunned for a moment. Tapping Mouse2 would knock them back, and holding mouse2 would do whatever throw/grab thing a character would have.

Head ons: I suppose what you suggest would be alright, there's really no other way to handle head on's without it having the possibility to become abusive. Maybe the ESF team has a better suggestion for that to nullify the problem. However, if you think about it, if someone was preparing to knock someone back with a single blow and the other person was trying to CC them, the player trying to knock back the other would do a little more damage than the CC'er would, even though they both got knocked back. I don't know. Talk to me on AIM about it. At least you have good questions to ask me.

 

[ShiftyOliver]

The new melee sounds pretty cool, but I have a couple of questions and suggestions.

1. In order to make ESF have more of a DBZ feel, I strongly urge that the ESF team, do actual blocks. For eg, if goku punches vegeta on the left, vegeta would use his left hand to sweep it away, or something like that, but at a faster pace.

2. It would be cool, if instead of doing all punches in the auto-sequence, the character does kicks as well. But it would be randomized, so that one auto sequence would be kick,punch,punch kick, etc etc......

3. Will Trunks some how use his sword for the auto-sequence? Or will he kick and punch.

4. When meleeing with someone, I think that you should enable outside damage. Cause then what would be the point of beams then? Unless you incorporate your melee to allow more than one person. So if one guy was fighting one guy, another person could join in. That would make for some awesome battles. The fight with Krillen, Piccolo, Tien vs Nappa comes to mind.

Anyway, the new screenshots of the new melee made me run for the bathroom, so keep up with the updates! And great Job!

 

[!XxShAdOwxX!]

The new melee sounds pretty cool, but I have a couple of questions and suggestions.

1. In order to make ESF have more of a DBZ feel, I strongly urge that the ESF team, do actual blocks. For eg, if goku punches vegeta on the left, vegeta would use his left hand to sweep it away, or something like that, but at a faster pace.

2. It would be cool, if instead of doing all punches in the auto-sequence, the character does kicks as well. But it would be randomized, so that one auto sequence would be kick,punch,punch kick, etc etc......

3. Will Trunks some how use his sword for the auto-sequence? Or will he kick and punch.

4. When meleeing with someone, I think that you should enable outside damage. Cause then what would be the point of beams then? Unless you incorporate your melee to allow more than one person. So if one guy was fighting one guy, another person could join in. That would make for some awesome battles. The fight with Krillen, Piccolo, Tien vs Nappa comes to mind.

Anyway, the new screenshots of the new melee made me run for the bathroom, so keep up with the updates! And great Job!

1. They can't do that because:
A) Too complicated
B) To boring because they would have to make 1 button perlimb then one button block per limb (unless it is that you look in the direction, but then that attracts whiners).

2. They only gave us the start to melee, not the end! They may have kicks in it (I personally hope the do ). And it probably won't be randomized

3. Trunks I think does have something special, I thought I remember PcJoe saying that sometime back, but just recently he said he wanted to try to incorperate Freiza's tail, so my bet would be yes.

4. Thats iffy, maybe they should do a cvar, because if you are locked in battle then some guy on the sideline ****s you up because he gets all the time to power up and create a big ass beam. Although maybe it will be reduced damage like when you are in a power struggle, with the fact that nobody can disk or melee you.