It's kind of sad really...

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Raven is a coder lol
i know that he is a coder o_O so what??
i asked in another thread why the heck i dont get a answer....he suggested that i write a mapper a pm...so did i....i wrote to layne....but well if they dont want my help its not my prob
 
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i know that he is a coder o_O so what??
i asked in another thread why the heck i dont get a answer....he suggested that i write a mapper a pm...so did i....i wrote to layne....but well if they dont want my help its not my prob
You need to talk about Layne's mother in order to draw his attention.
 
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Marvel vs Capcom 2: 2000
Marvel vs Capcom 3: 2011.... 11 years before we got a new game. Played the old one til we got the new one.


Street Fighter 3: 1997
Street Fighter 4: 2008... 11 years before we got a new game. Played the old one at tournaments for the longest time til Street Fighter 4 came out.


Half-life: 1998
Half-life 2: 2004... 6 years before they released a continuation to this story.


We waited a good 15 years for Street Fighter X Tekken.
We have to wait another year for Tekken X Street Fighter.


Patients will get you far. So what if you have to wait.. People here have waited a good 10+ years for this final version of the game.
People come here to ***** about the game not being playable already or the game taking too long to be developed.
A lot of the Dev here don't get on the Forums as much. I think most of them use MSN for chats.

We get a post from Masta one in awhile. Here lately it has started to be a common thing. But people have stuff in real life that they have to take care of. Most of the Dev and Admin here are above the age of 20.
 
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i feel like what LSSJ is saying is perfectly justifiable. it seems absolutely ridiculous that a team member (doesnt matter what their role is) doesnt want a nearly completed (something that will b completed if requested for) ship model. like seriously, is communication really that lacking between the members? a coder cant just forward the message or even take a half a second to right click on the damn image and click "copy" or "save as" yeah sure u got a bunch of shit to do .... but this guy more than made up for that time lost by making the model itself. and u cant give 2 seconds to pass this along. ppl here keep defending the devs n what not (something i dont have a problem with) but i feel like its absolutely hypocritical and ridiculous that LSSJ b seen in the wrong here as MOST of you have an outcry whenever someone doesnt appreciate the dev's work .... now, here, u guys arent appreciating LSSJ's work

i ahve seen LSSJ's work ... its damn clean and damn good and deserves some recognition ... and heck he could b a valuable member of the team if there was better communication amongst the team members.

and as for the game taking 10 years + most good games take more than 10 years. the only reason why ESF team is getting such a hard time for it is, they publicized the making of it too early. when esf first came out, u didnt see ppl waiting on forums for it to b made, it was made then we found out about it. that for one is a big reason why all these big companies have been successful with their games, they didnt make their fans know there was something to wait for. but that doesnt really matter. the point is, good games take time so all ppl whining about release time ... **** off

ps. i hope you realize the team is doing what entire BIG companies, which hire thousands of ppl, in roughly about the same time; sure it may not b as pristine, able to play on 5 consoles & pc, n such; but its still pretty damn fukin good, esp considering u could count the members of the team on ur fingers n toes

*link to thread of the trunks time machine model* http://forum.esforces.com/threads/154296-i-was-bored
 
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wow i got a fan:D thanks dude that really means something for me!!!!^^ i am glad someone likes it

before the flaming starts: they wanted me to do a map...because of lack of time and stuff i started with some buildings and extras....so the time machine was born....my first questions belonging to some facts how stuff is done got a answer....but others didnt.....i even gave layne and mastasurf a copy of my files....i asked mastasurf in 3 mails to get a answer.....i dont wanted to force them to use it.i simply wanted to know IF they want it or not! thats all! i spend some time on that time machine and i really was fun and i learned a lot.it would be a honor for me if my finished model(i would finish it of course) with skin would be on a map somewhere hidden or somewhere else in the esf final.

mastasurf even commented my work.he liked it and wanted to see more.after i was about to finish it i gave him the latest screens.Because real life got me in its hands i only could provide some help in buildings or other stuff.i thought the time machine was a good example of my capabilities. i never got a answer to that mail.....some days later i wrote a mail again! simply asking for a statement if yes or no.in my third mail which i sended weeks after that i asked again for a statement and gave a link to download my work(WIP 95% model) aswell..... AGAIN no answer!!!

then i flamed a little bit here on the forum...raven told to write layne a PM....SO did i......and guess what? NO ANSWER
i still got the datas, and if someone wants it i gladly would give it to them.if someone wanna learn to skin or maybe for another game...it would be a shame if that thing gets no use.

its really ODD to ask for help and when that help is provided simply dont react on it!!!!!!!!!! or what do you guys think?
like told i only wanted a statement! i asked 2 people! over a whole month! and NO answer! NO RESPONSE! NOTHING!


nice aint it?




just for u victor:


i redid the chair^^ thats my latest version
 
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As real life got to you, maybe it got it's hands on them as well.
 
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Lanye isn't super active on the forum to begin with

Maybe DJ-Ready will be more help?
 
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u both are missing the point!!! IF they ASK US for HELP! THEN they should response to IT!

they cant ask for a helping hand and if they get one simple dont act at all! thats the point! real life got them? seriously...even if real life really came over them,you dont think its possible to make a short answer within 1month?
because they even asked again for help a few days ago like u can see on the frontpage.

also mastasurf is listed as contact.....i even wrote layne.....they want something from me dont they? DJ ready is as far as i know no current mapper....

even if this is internet.....such a behavior really pisses me off! i only wanted a ******* RESPONSE!!! is that to much to ask???
but u see this thread is also some days over "helping hands" and where are them? for me....i gave up waiting for this game a long time ago...if it comes out some year i gonna play it for sure....but still....really lame..
 
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Mister modeler sir, could you post non-smoothed version to that model? Because, even with normal maps, the mesh will not look as smooth ingame as it does in your render.
Also, a wireframe would be nice.
 
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They never asked for help with that map, That's the thing.

DJ is a mapper and he is active on these forums. Masta is busy and not active on the forum either.

You need to calm down and pick your battles
 
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u both are missing the point!!! IF they ASK US for HELP! THEN they should response to IT!

they cant ask for a helping hand and if they get one simple dont act at all! thats the point! real life got them? seriously...even if real life really came over them,you dont think its possible to make a short answer within 1month?
because they even asked again for help a few days ago like u can see on the frontpage.

also mastasurf is listed as contact.....i even wrote layne.....they want something from me dont they? DJ ready is as far as i know no current mapper....

even if this is internet.....such a behavior really pisses me off! i only wanted a ******* RESPONSE!!! is that to much to ask???
but u see this thread is also some days over "helping hands" and where are them? for me....i gave up waiting for this game a long time ago...if it comes out some year i gonna play it for sure....but still....really lame..
As I recall there was about a month delay for your last response too. The ESF team has had its fair share of run-ins with people that want to "help", but disappear half-way through a project. I took your last email to mean that you were going to orphan the unfinished model and wanted us to finish it for you. This isn't too helpful because UV mapping and texturing a model takes a lot more time than building the geometry. If you genuinely want to help out then completely model and texture the model.
 
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what it seems like is u guys need better PR. You guys should assign someone who handles these kinds of request, there are plenty of ppl here on the forum that would volunteer their time for sure. i understand that it is rough for the team to nit pick n check every message someone sends, but having someone designated to only doing that would help a lot on the organization and communication.

this person would have to maintain communication with team member in what ever source of messenger services/emails they use & forward anything that may b important or worth seeing to them. i know u guys have similar positions like that already, but it doesnt hurt to b more specific and makes things a lot more organized.

just a thought, shouldn't need to send 3 messages, make several forum posts, and then have a huge blow out conversation in that post just to get a response (like mastasurf just gave)
 
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just a thought, shouldn't need to send 3 messages, make several forum posts, and then have a huge blow out conversation in that post just to get a response (like mastasurf just gave)
Not to sound like an ass, but having devs who are on 24/7 just waiting to reply is any better?

Thing is if something gets forwarded to me i bring it up. I try to answer every question i can, be it facebook, moddb or random youtube vids i happen to stumble across when im bored.

But you also have to take a look from the other side. Yes it took 3 mails with a month delay before the last update. And we have experience with people who join wanting to help, show promising results, only to fall off the face of the planet a few weeks later.

Its all sketchy especially since only the core of the team is constantly active and communicating with each other. Others tend to fall of the communication grid only to resurface with an update on their progress every now and then. But thing is you cant blame them. They have legit excuses. We never had any problems with people saying "Sorry got exams in school, so ill be gone for a month". The problems always come from people just dropping off the grid with no warning what so ever.

As for the PR thing. Most he could do would be to redirect and establish communication with the needed person. In this case LSSJ was already talking with masta. The team is used to working self sufficiently and independently. Sure we talk about whats needed and so forth, but artists are free to do what they want. I guess that kind of mentality can cause an issue when someone who is applying wants a response.

But even for that we have a Team Speak 3 channel where someone usually idles. You can get in contact with people there. Even if its not the person you need the people there might still be able to help you out. So why not target the place we all hang out at first if you need to talk? Or are people kind of forgetting that we even have a TS3 channel?

I know PR is not perfect in ESF, mostly because everyone just does what they want (outside news and such stuff ofcourse). But its what we have.
 
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As I recall there was about a month delay for your last response too. The ESF team has had its fair share of run-ins with people that want to "help", but disappear half-way through a project. I took your last email to mean that you were going to orphan the unfinished model and wanted us to finish it for you. This isn't too helpful because UV mapping and texturing a model takes a lot more time than building the geometry. If you genuinely want to help out then completely model and texture the model.
not really...ok i had also a little delay so what? u maybe can imagine that doing that model also takes some time dont u?....and i didnt wanted to spam u full with pictures of every little 10%.at the time i reached like 95% i sended u the latest mail

Not to sound like an ass, but having devs who are on 24/7 just waiting to reply is any better?
of course that is bullshit...........but i think within a month a answer should be possible right?



and to the facts how the "PR" is done.............our first mail conversation started really well....then this happened:


day month
------------before we both didnt had to wait long for a response(like 3 days max)
20 09 mastasurfs last mail to me (cleared some stuff i needed to know and some compliments to my work)
20 09 i replied the same day with some suggestions how to use it and told again that i suck at skinning but that i gonna try it. and
that i was thinking about adding a animation and stuff
NO ANSWER
23 10 i wrote again...and told that my life had me in his hands....i spoke CLEARLY:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The model is like 97% done...my question is now: shall i do the other 3%? you would have to skin it!
i would do:

-the model
-a open animation which u sure can pull by trigger or something.


i attached a pic of my model so you can look before you download the pack i made for you.
it includes:

a .obj a .fxb a .trl
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SO where is the sentence that i simple give up??? that i let it be on 97%??? I SAID i am going to finish it(the model) i simply wanted a statement!!!
or is it that you dont even really read the mails u receive? tell me!


just btw.......NO ANSWER


after waiting for another 2 weeks i decided to speak on this forum about it!...............again no "real" answer......i should ask layne if he has use for it.....so did it.........and guess what!!! NO ANSWER

as u can see now...like i told in my last 2 mails to you! i suck at skinning...was tryed it and i asked you nicely if u still have use for it! i only wanted a yes or a no! is that to much to ask? EVEN if skinning takes more time dont u think doing that model takes also some time? i watched the episodes over and over...captured screenshots...compared my model on every little part to the time machine.Dont u think that also takes some time? maybe your modeller can do it faster that i did! i also suffered from a lack of time but i still enjoyed it like hell! so....i know modelling and skinning takes both time! if u do it right! that crappy time machine u guys had on the old esf_gero took for sure about 1hour to make....but i think we all are clear on this that my machine is on another level....it took me sure about some days with all together to built it to that level it is know. SO even if skinning takes more time shouldnt u guys be happy that the modelling part is already taken from you???

but to make some things clear! i know i was planed to make maps.....i know that is not a map...i know its not skinned.....but its a nice piece of work! and it deserves a statement! i deserve it!!! i reached out my hand to you and u let me down waiting....IF u dont want it SIMPLY SAY NO
BUT DONT simply ignore me! i know this is internet but thats a terrible behavior in both worlds!

mastasurf didnt answer my last 2 mails....i can imagine that i kinda annoys when someone the whole time asks some stuff! but u simple ask for a mapper....for modelling help without a clear list of the what and how!!! i had questions about how is the water done...how are the sounds done...(they dont use hammer anymore) so if u step on gras that u hear gras....and stuff like that...i know that annoys but why dont u simply do a list that helps on there if u got guys which simply ignore someone if it becomes to much??? and even if he gets the whole work sended....with a nice and gendle question: do you still got a use for this?

NO ANSWER

i dont want to flame around here....i give a shit! its just the fact that "asking for help" and such a "behavior" doesnt really fit together!
if u think its garbage or if u simple got no use then say it! even childs are capable of doing that!
and dont worry i take that as a NO and even if u still want it i wouldnt give u permission.

regards,
BANDIT



(if someone wants that thing pm me for link)
maybe still gonna finish it just for fun.




-------------------------------------------i really wanna know if they delete this post
 
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not really...ok i had also a little delay so what?..... blabla ....ay it! even childs are capable of doing that!

regards,
BANDIT



(if someone wants that thing pm me for link)
maybe still gonna finish it just for fun.




-------------------------------------------i really wanna know if they delete this post
You still haven't posted the wires I asked you.
 
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not really...ok i had also a little delay so what? u maybe can imagine that doing that model also takes some time dont u?....and i didnt wanted to spam u full with pictures of every little 10%.at the time i reached like 95% i sended u the latest mail



of course that is bullshit...........but i think within a month a answer should be possible right?



and to the facts how the "PR" is done.............our first mail conversation started really well....then this happened:


day month
------------before we both didnt had to wait long for a response(like 3 days max)
20 09 mastasurfs last mail to me (cleared some stuff i needed to know and some compliments to my work)
20 09 i replied the same day with some suggestions how to use it and told again that i suck at skinning but that i gonna try it. and
that i was thinking about adding a animation and stuff
NO ANSWER
23 10 i wrote again...and told that my life had me in his hands....i spoke CLEARLY:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The model is like 97% done...my question is now: shall i do the other 3%? you would have to skin it!
i would do:

-the model
-a open animation which u sure can pull by trigger or something.


i attached a pic of my model so you can look before you download the pack i made for you.
it includes:

a .obj a .fxb a .trl
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SO where is the sentence that i simple give up??? that i let it be on 97%??? I SAID i am going to finish it(the model) i simply wanted a statement!!!
or is it that you dont even really read the mails u receive? tell me!


just btw.......NO ANSWER


after waiting for another 2 weeks i decided to speak on this forum about it!...............again no "real" answer......i should ask layne if he has use for it.....so did it.........and guess what!!! NO ANSWER

as u can see now...like i told in my last 2 mails to you! i suck at skinning...was tryed it and i asked you nicely if u still have use for it! i only wanted a yes or a no! is that to much to ask? EVEN if skinning takes more time dont u think doing that model takes also some time? i watched the episodes over and over...captured screenshots...compared my model on every little part to the time machine.Dont u think that also takes some time? maybe your modeller can do it faster that i did! i also suffered from a lack of time but i still enjoyed it like hell! so....i know modelling and skinning takes both time! if u do it right! that crappy time machine u guys had on the old esf_gero took for sure about 1hour to make....but i think we all are clear on this that my machine is on another level....it took me sure about some days with all together to built it to that level it is know. SO even if skinning takes more time shouldnt u guys be happy that the modelling part is already taken from you???

but to make some things clear! i know i was planed to make maps.....i know that is not a map...i know its not skinned.....but its a nice piece of work! and it deserves a statement! i deserve it!!! i reached out my hand to you and u let me down waiting....IF u dont want it SIMPLY SAY NO
BUT DONT simply ignore me! i know this is internet but thats a terrible behavior in both worlds!

mastasurf didnt answer my last 2 mails....i can imagine that i kinda annoys when someone the whole time asks some stuff! but u simple ask for a mapper....for modelling help without a clear list of the what and how!!! i had questions about how is the water done...how are the sounds done...(they dont use hammer anymore) so if u step on gras that u hear gras....and stuff like that...i know that annoys but why dont u simply do a list that helps on there if u got guys which simply ignore someone if it becomes to much??? and even if he gets the whole work sended....with a nice and gendle question: do you still got a use for this?

NO ANSWER

i dont want to flame around here....i give a shit! its just the fact that "asking for help" and such a "behavior" doesnt really fit together!
if u think its garbage or if u simple got no use then say it! even childs are capable of doing that!
and dont worry i take that as a NO and even if u still want it i wouldnt give u permission.

regards,
BANDIT



(if someone wants that thing pm me for link)
maybe still gonna finish it just for fun.




-------------------------------------------i really wanna know if they delete this post
We don't delete posts just because you're being a d***

You obviously didn't see that Masta said you had to skin it or find someone else to because it's often more work than the model and they don't have time for that if we want to mod any time soon
 
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You still haven't posted the wires I asked you.
OH i am sorry i over readed your post! sure i can do that when i get home^^ u also can get the latest version for download if u like. in about 7hours i will be home. then i can follow your wish^^

HERE:
http://filesave.me/file/24751/TTM-rar.html
its no wireframe....i gonna do that by the time i get home but its a link to the latest version!
not finished....lot details still missing.

---------------------
obviously u all cant read or hope if you climb up their asses u get the esf final before it dies(no offense to the team)...........the fact is that i asked if they still want it! or not! read the god darn post! i know its long! he never said "we dont take unfinished models" i only asked for a yes and a no. there is nothing beeing a..hole about that. that sentence with:

If you genuinely want to help out then completely model and texture the model.
@deverz: that came some hours ago........what happend the last weeks i waited for a statement? that is the fact this is about! or do you think if u really read something or say anything against the team that u lose your mod rights? for real this forum is dead anyway-.-"
btw did u ever tried to skin on somewhere where u dont have the engine to check what it looks ingame? OR where u got other examples to match those? otherwise i spend hours on a skin which looks terrible different ingame.......so u maybe see that there is something wrong here dont u?

and i am speaking about deleting this because that really gives a bad shine on the team and the development. its way easier for people simple to evade such talk by ignoring or ban the user who did that OR delete the posts....

i tell them:
IF YOU GUYS want any HELP u should start giving that job to someone who cares and prepare yourself for the questions which may come up! you cant change the whole game editing and then expecting that no one has any questions!

its really sad....that the whole community stands on the site of the esf team(just ignoring the facts).maybe you should offer your help aswell and see by urself what happens?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to sound like an ass, but having devs who are on 24/7 just waiting to reply is any better?

Thing is if something gets forwarded to me i bring it up. I try to answer every question i can, be it facebook, moddb or random youtube vids i happen to stumble across when im bored.

But you also have to take a look from the other side. Yes it took 3 mails with a month delay before the last update. And we have experience with people who join wanting to help, show promising results, only to fall off the face of the planet a few weeks later.

Its all sketchy especially since only the core of the team is constantly active and communicating with each other. Others tend to fall of the communication grid only to resurface with an update on their progress every now and then. But thing is you cant blame them. They have legit excuses. We never had any problems with people saying "Sorry got exams in school, so ill be gone for a month". The problems always come from people just dropping off the grid with no warning what so ever.

As for the PR thing. Most he could do would be to redirect and establish communication with the needed person. In this case LSSJ was already talking with masta. The team is used to working self sufficiently and independently. Sure we talk about whats needed and so forth, but artists are free to do what they want. I guess that kind of mentality can cause an issue when someone who is applying wants a response.

But even for that we have a Team Speak 3 channel where someone usually idles. You can get in contact with people there. Even if its not the person you need the people there might still be able to help you out. So why not target the place we all hang out at first if you need to talk? Or are people kind of forgetting that we even have a TS3 channel?

I know PR is not perfect in ESF, mostly because everyone just does what they want (outside news and such stuff ofcourse). But its what we have.
thanks grega for the post...like told having a 24/7 guy around is bullshit....and there is ts3 and stuff of course....but what if i dont speak english that well........and i know that sounds strange but i dont have facebook and i hate it^^ and if i want to help you........you cant tell me its my job to run after you........that is a thing which has simply to work! i dont flame if a email took some time....but that took some time to much.i always knew that that guy sure has a real life and stuff like u all do. so i gave him every mail some time..mostly after about 3 days i had my answers i needed......well exept the last ones^^
what about u give that decission about mapping to a guy which.........well i dont know maybe DOES MAPPING? and the modelling decisson to a modeler? would make sense doesnt it?^^ prepare a list of needed stuff and maybe a example on which they can match their work on....like told above....i dont spend hours on a skin when i am 70% sure that it looks terrible ingame....u changed the whole way of editing for this game...u cant expect someone to simply know all and match your work without these terms
 
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Thing is. Mapping and modeling are pretty much one and the same thing now. Its either enviroment or character modeling, but its all modeling.
 
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then give that job to a modeler....or mapper or a guy which does both!
prepare a list of needed stuff....of stuff what he needs to know....and then someone who can really decide if its usefull and ofcourse someone who replies to questions
 

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Grega can reply to questions, he's most active dev. Will be here on forum a list of needed stuff?
 

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