HOWing, what's your take?

[SailorAlea]

Not that I'm a HOWer or in defense of it, but why do you call it cheap, if you admit it's not a threat?

That's like saying Kiblasting someone while they're trying to melee you is cheap, even though it poses little to no threat.

 

[ForeverZero]

Not that I'm a HOWer or in defense of it, but why do you call it cheap, if you admit it's not a threat?

That's like saying Kiblasting someone while they're trying to melee you is cheap, even though it poses little to no threat.

It is a baby's move. Much like if you see someone who is upset over losing throwing a bunch of kamehameha's or special beam cannons. HOWing is the melee equivalent to that. You mean to tell me a newb's angry kame has no chance to hurt you if you get careless? It is something that requires attention and contempt.

 

[SailorAlea]

I'm just saying, that you claimed the HOWing isn't a threat.

Your comparison to a 'newb's angry kamehameha' is flawed, because that kamehameha can kill you, because it's a threat.

You're saying something is no threat, yet saying it's the same as something that is..

Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

[ForeverZero]

I'll repeat myself. Like any of these moves that require no skill, it's a threat if you are careless. There's no reason that you should seriously lose to an expert beamer or an expert HOWer.

 

[SailorAlea]

Well, an expert beamer is a little different from an expert HOWer, In my opinion..

It's very easy to choose Gohan as a char, and transform with him.. As SSJ Gohan, you've got a very strong Kamehameha, and it requires less energy then Goku's, so you can use it more times in a short period of time.

If you're fighting (melee) with another person, it's pretty easy for that SSJ Gohan to blow you both up, if they've got any skill..even if it is cheap.

 

[sub]

um at the risk of being called a noob, im gunna have to dissagree with u zero. im a decent player im not bad, but a hower that has no skill is not really a problem for me (maybe occasionaly) but one that is a "skilled" hower maybe be able to beat me. thats from my experice, i dunno if its my fighting style but i find it extreamly hard to beat a hower that knows how to how right unless you how them back which i would not do becuase well, howing is ***. i think howing should be accecpted if your not trying to how but u hit them once maybe twice head on my accident, but if thats ur fighitng style i look down on u. the sad thing is if i lose to a hower, the hower calls me a noob which makes me even mader. :\. heh dont u think its strange and unfair that a fighting style with no skill can beat a fighting style that requires skill and hard work to pull off. head ons should be taken away from the game somhow imho.

Edit: i forgot to mention, forever, if you dont think that howing is hard to beat, then u havent fought a "good" hower. howing is a threat if done correctly.

 

[SailorAlea]

What I find extremely amusing is that so many people think "HOW" is a problem, a bug..

Most people didn't see the -extremely- unfair situation in 1.0, being your Ping determining victory in head-ons, as that much of a problem.

Sure, some people complained, but not nearly as many people who complain about 'HOW'ing.

At least HOWing requires some measure of skill-ki management, whereas in 1.0, your ping? It's a big improvement, but it seems to have sparked so much trash-talking.

The fact is, if you know how to manage your ki, you can always beat HOW'ers, and there are several stragies to get around people who use LSM..

 

[ForeverZero]

The fact is, if you know how to manage your ki, you can always beat HOW'ers, and there are several stragies to get around people who use LSM..

That's what I have been trying to say. I've gone toe to toe with the best of them and come out on top.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

It isn't cheap because it's a threat, it's cheap because it forces you to use a lot more effort to hit them than if you were both swooping and teleporting around each other. Either way it's just a technique. You can look down at it all you want, but once you start throwing out insults and talking trash about it all you've accomplished is showing people that you aren't in control of your anger or you can't figure out what to do. This thread is composed of people that:

A.) Can't figure out how to get around people who abuse the ki system.
B.) Rebels without a cause who sit back and talk trash about players they don't know.
and C.) People that take this game far too seriously.

Well alright, there's D.) the people who are neutral about it like I am, but there aren't nearly enough of them.


"Head on whoring" is a lame title to begin with, but if I have to refer to it that way to be understand, than know that "head on whoring" is going to be around until and possibly even after 1.2's release (in simple melee). Know that complaining about it might make you feel an ounce better about yourself but it wont change anything until the next patch comes out, and the issue was being addressed even before 1.1 was released, which means the comments stated in this thread were outdated before they were placed. Know that you are only going to spark further arguments and crash more trains of thought if you continue to restate commonly held viewpoints about a feature that isn't going anywhere for at least 3-4 months.

Go on and keep going off about if that's what it takes to make you feel like you're assisting the community in some small way, but the truth is you're just begging for other people to come in and start the room on fire over a part of the game that no one but the designers can change. Just a warning.

 

[ForeverZero]

You just spent a whole post ranting about the pointlessness of this thread. Why are you posting in it? Do we really need to hear from you how meaningless you think our arguments are?

 

[Pain]

i find howers easier to beat and take less effort than a "skilled" player. just my opinion tho... i say let them how. one more frag for me.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

You just spent a whole post ranting about the pointlessness of this thread. Why are you posting in it? Do we really need to hear from you how meaningless you think our arguments are?

Well excuse me for trying to stop a war over nothing glazed over with the empty oppinions of people who think their cause is so rightous that they should risk flame wars and rile up the community over it. Not to say that the oppinion of the people in this thread aren't valid; just to say that it isn't going anywhere because there is no final destination. There never was. You aren't going to change the world, all you are going to do is piss peple off. This thread isn't a legitimate suggestion because the team was planning to remove it from before it was implamented (it was a quick fix), and it cannot possibly be changed in any way or form before beta 1.2 rolls around.

To more directly answer your question, yes, I do think you need to hear, as obviously people are still taking it upon themself to post potentially offensive oppinions in this thread, judging others for a technique built into the game. This isn't cheating, it's exploiting, and you don't have to like it, but I for one do not approve of stereo-types and labels. Threads like this breed hatred in the community and give new members a label to throw onto people they don't like. It is not supportive of what we are trying to do here.

I'm just telling you people not to start fights over a totally lost cause. Keep posting your oppinions if you want, just know nothing will change, and we're still giving out warnings for flaming.

Now get back on topic.

 

[Lilum]

Head on Whoring should be accepted, for this reason.

As it stands, people do not accept it, and they have a grudge against people who do it. People who play to enjoy themselves for the most part, as the melee players do. The melee players then proceed to do whatever they can to make the HoW players have an unenjoyable experience, and do whatever they can to make them quit the server. I would say that is fairly bad sportsmanship, especially from clans who speak of how they wish to play and enjoy themselves.

HoW'ing has been said to be fairly simple to beat, yet it is such a big deal apparently that people will spend a good deal of time ranting about it and doing their best to ruin other people's time for doing it. All of this while saying that their playing experience was ruined due to one or two players who play a certain way.

The excuse that they do this, then after killing you call you a n00b, and as such you are justified in hating HoW players, is just that. An excuse. If they're being ****y and arrogant, regardless of playstyle, they are being ****y and arrogant. It doesn't matter how someone plays, if they are a jerk, they are a jerk. You could be the greatest melee player ever, you could not only swoop in a circle but repeatedly swoop in a globe around the player, but if you do this then after killing a player call him a n00b and insult him, you're still just a jerk.

This whole argument stems from a mindset that ESF should only be about melee'ing, and that a choice by any one player to melee should force the other player to melee. Only under a certain set of rules though, and only with certain tactics. You'll always have people who are melee purists and believe in no other form of play then that, and you'll have players who play using all the techniques available to use, and all the strategies they wish.

If someone is playing a certain way, they are playing that way. If they're being annoying, that's completely different. HoW'ing should be accepted so that it isn't an excuse anymore. It doesn't matter if you're beaming people repeatedly, using headon's repeatedly to kill someone out of spite, or swooping repeatedly to kill them out of spite. You're not playing the game for your own fun, you're playing to get rid of their fun. If someone's being moronic and shouting off n00b and 0wn3d after every kill, feel free to kill them and tell them to stop being a jerk.

HoW'ing and the way many melee purists use it lumps people who play defensively into that arrogant status, while at the same time using an arrogant tone and speaking about how you want to spend your time making other people unhappy with their ESF time.

~~melodramatic finishing touch~~
If it bothers you that much to take their fun away, why don't you just crash the server like devil? I see no difference between you playing to make another person unhappy and to ruin their experience, and what he does to ruin your experiences.

 

[Lynxy]

Let's try and harden the point:

People who HOW just suck, accept the fact that they do. No way around it, they just suck. If you really play to win, therefore can't risk health and use ki and headons as your weapon, you suck. I believe you're seeing HOW pretty lightly. I'm not talking about ESFn00bs who joined ESF a day ago and love to headon, I'm talking about players who play since 1.0 and know ESF inside out. It really isn't just standing still and waiting for someone to come, that's too simple to express it. I know players who use it, and it's HARD to get around it.

Really, is isn't that hard. If you're destined to use HOW, and actually like the way to bore people with that nonsense, go for it. Noone's holding you back. There's nothing to accept, if you see a HOWer somewhere you can beg for him to stop, they don't, ta. Also you can't forbid anyway to stop HOWing, it's common nowadays, don't bother trying to get ahold of playing skillfully.

It's quite amusing to see this though, some people actually standing up for this HOW crap. Like I've said before, if you truly believe it's skilled and fun to play like it, by all means, go for it. It's just pathetic to see it.

Anyway this is me, just another ESF player,
-Lynx-

 

[ZTiMaStA]

as for me i hate howing and i still hate it but there are ways to get around it .... im still practising on my anti how moves but if ur really a good player you can avoid being howed like lynx but this is just me sometimes i got annoyed by getting howed and sometimes its just so boring to avoid being howed so then i stop playing...

 

[GMan]

As I read this I realize that many of the people who have said HOWing is easy to avoid are extreme HOWers themselves.

 

[ZTiMaStA]

do u think i am on that catogory? i can assure u i am not a hower... i just say that howing can be avoid unless ur ping is verry high

 

[sub]

Im going to repeat my oppion. Howing is a problem in that it takes no skill to use, but skill to beat (call me a noob if you want, i dont care) unless u resort to howing yourself, but thats *** and then it would just be a waiting game. There are ways to get around it, but they take skill to use compared to howing. I had my friend over and i told him how to melee and on his first time playing, he had a very good record howing. Tell me now that howing is not a problem. If poeple there first time playing can come up with a positive record, somthing should be done. I think for a quick fix, maybe they should do what forever zero suggested and make it so that whenever somone head ons another person, they both just boucne backwards and no damage is done.

Sonic Boyster, the reason this thread is here is because howing is unfiar. Thats nice that your neutral on this and you want poeple to stop making threads that bring up hatread, but this thread doesnt bring up hatred. This thread was made to express poeples oppion on howing, i think we all know that 1.2 is going to change melee, but comon, all this thread is asking is poeples oppionions.

 

[ZTiMaStA]

you readed my mind hybrid... thats exactly my point....

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Sonic Boyster, the reason this thread is here is because howing is unfiar. Thats nice that your neutral on this and you want poeple to stop making threads that bring up hatread, but this thread doesnt bring up hatred. This thread was made to express poeples oppion on howing, i think we all know that 1.2 is going to change melee, but comon, all this thread is asking is poeples oppionions.

The whole point of my posts was to tell you people that your oppinion is already noted and has been since before the melee system was released. They knew this was going to piss people off but they couldn't think of anything better at the time, and the windows version was released accidentally before further changes could be made. They *know* it's unfair, so whether or not a few of us think so isn't going to change that. Instead, it'll just start arguments over a topic that was dead before it was started.

"Head on Whoring" is unfair to those of you who can't get around it (and I know it's hard to get around from time to time) and the team thinks so too. Asking for each others' oppinions about it is like asking if people think President Bush should have been elected. The truth is he already was elected, nothing can change that, but you can still start fist fights over it.