Goku SSJ Kai-o-ken stories on the ESF forum that are WRONG!!!

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there are a lot if suggestiong about Kai-o-ken in the suggestions topic, and almost evrybody says than: No he is a SSJ and that would render the kai-o-ken useless.

BUT when he is fighting PIKKON (the strong green guy in Otherworld) Than goku uses the kai-o-ken again WHILE he is SSJ.
he is than SSJ and says SUPER Kai-0-ken

after pikkon attack him from above with the tornado attack, goku pulls himself out stand on the ground and says SUPER kai-o-ken
his aura turns red and goku attacks.

i just wanted to let you guys know, so now many people are wrong!!!

eps 184 - Goku vs Pikkon :cool:
 
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Except that part was invented by Bird/Shueisha and not Akira Toriyama. Thus it is not DBZ cannon, simply something made up to pass the time.
 
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What? Parts of DBZ were added by other people? What else?
 
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Originally posted by Cucumba
Except that part was invented by Bird/Shueisha and not Akira Toriyama. Thus it is not DBZ cannon, simply something made up to pass the time.
ah damn you gotta be kidding me.
but he it is DBZ

what is DBZ cannon?
 
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Originally posted by Gohan-san
there are a lot if suggestiong about Kai-o-ken in the suggestions topic, and almost evrybody says than: No he is a SSJ and that would render the kai-o-ken useless.

BUT when he is fighting PIKKON (the strong green guy in Otherworld) Than goku uses the kai-o-ken again WHILE he is SSJ.
he is than SSJ and says SUPER Kai-0-ken

after pikkon attack him from above with the tornado attack, goku pulls himself out stand on the ground and says SUPER kai-o-ken
his aura turns red and goku attacks.

i just wanted to let you guys know, so now many people are wrong!!!

eps 184 - Goku vs Pikkon :cool:
It was a filler series. Something to buy the creators some time for the Saiyaman saga.
 
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There is still no reason why Goku couldn't use the kaioken while SSJ. I mean honestly, why not...? There's just no need to use it, but I don't see any reason why it CAN'T be done.
 
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HI I HAVE A QUESTION: How can I get SSJ with one of the characters in ESF??? is there a difference between the characters how to get it? please answer!!!
 
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Fighter, check out the Help Forum next time - it exists for newbies like yourself.

To transform, you need a certain amount of PL (Power Level). How much you need depends on the character: when choosing a character, it will tell you how much you need in the text. PL is the number on the Ki bar. When you have enough PL, press z (default). You'll begin to transform. :)
 

Orz

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Originally posted by SaiyanPrideXIX
There is still no reason why Goku couldn't use the kaioken while SSJ. I mean honestly, why not...? There's just no need to use it, but I don't see any reason why it CAN'T be done.
SSJ works just the same way Kaioken does. Think of it as "Kaioken times 100", if you like. Just as Goku can't say "Kaioken times four!" and then "Kaioken times four!" again to get Kaioken times eight, he can't use Kaioken and SSJ at the same time. Both provide extra energy but are exhausting to the body.
 

CM

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Kaioken x4 and Kaioken x4 is Kaioken x16...
 

Orz

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I'm not talking in multiplication... 4 x 4 is 16. 4 + 4 is 8. Kaioken + SSJ is what a 'Super Kaioken' would be, not Kaioken x SSJ. If this was the case, Goku would have exploded.

Besides, 1 x 4 + 1 x 4 = 8.
 
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Originally posted by Orz
SSJ works just the same way Kaioken does.
Are you sure about that? I'd always thought of Kaioken as a form of super power-up (turbo) that increased power for very short periods of time (although I think he must have been using it for much longer periods against Frieza, prior to transforming).

SSJ, on the other hand, is more of a physical metamorphosis, which allows Goku to draw upon and control phenomenal amounts of power. If this were the case then I'd see no reason why Goku couldn't use Kaioken while transformed, unless the nature of Kaioken is simply incompatable with SSJ; the ability might drain power too quickly or cause some kind of catastrophic injury as you suggested.
 

Orz

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Originally posted by Death Biscuit
Are you sure about that? I'd always thought of Kaioken as a form of super power-up (turbo) that increased power for very short periods of time (although I think he must have been using it for much longer periods against Frieza, prior to transforming).
You have the answer right there in your reply - he used Kaioken for a long time period of time against Frieza because, like SSJ, he became used to it. SSJ is less exhausting than Kaioken for a higher power gain, because it's natural - Goku has the blood of a Saiyan and is the most powerful of his race. Kaioken was a technique that had much the same effect, but was harder to maintain because it was unnatural.

As King Kai pointed out on Namek, Goku was permanently in Kaioken for much of his fight as a regular saiyan against Form 4 Frieza. Every time he moved, attacked, or dodged, he was using kaioken at levels King Kai had not thought possible (remember he warned Goku not to even go as high as 4x...)

Of course, there is no official source on this, as it's hardly a science. But this is the way that seems most logical. Kaioken is simply a transformation state, much like SSJ. No Saiyan can remain in SSJ for long (though Goku and Gohan attempted to do so, with incredible results).

Think of Kaioken early on as Goku's SSJ3 as it is now. Huge power increase, limited time, exhaustion - sound familiar?
 
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There is a theoretical limit to how much Kaioken can do . . . King Kai even says it can't be pushed further, thus doing it while SSJ would be useless.

Cannon is a way of saying "established rules", the way preists behave, for instance, is cannonical.
 
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Originally posted by Checkplease
EXCEPT THAT I LOVE CHEESE
Checkplease, please do not spam here or anywhere else on the forums...next time is fair game for a warning.
 
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Okay, here's Alea to the rescue! ^_^

Goku can't use SSJ with Kaioken at the same time, because, as Orz said, he can't handle all the energy--while alive.

Goku uses 'Super Kaioken' while fighting Pikuhon in the Afterlife Budokai.

He is able to use Kaioken and SSJ simultaneously because his body is dead, and as is explained in both the anime and manga, your body is much more durable while dead.

If Goku used Kaioken+SSJ while alive, his body would explode from all the energy. He can use it only while dead.
 

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