Gameplay is ****ed Up

[Carnage the 1]

People who are better know more of the game than a n00b. Technically, a more experienced player will find more bugs than a newcommer. Besides, did you hear ESFn00b say "Omg I found this out" and everybody uses it since (sad but it happens lol). I haven't, but I'm not imnious so I couldn't know for sure.

 

[~Dark Trunks~]

i see where carnage is coming from wit all this it would be easier for someone who is steadly active on esf and has been around to point out more bugs then someone whose new to the game (sorry i dont say the word noob).

reason for this is the vet player has prolly been told some bugs from others and found some on his own or had some done to him/her. I also agree with him on the point of melee. It really does need some sort of change. IMO its way to easy to do melee in 1.2. Its alot of the reason why people who were never known can come on esf and become pro players and one of the best if not the best.

its quite simple if u ask me. My 8 yr old brother can pretty much do all the little expoits and moves pros do witout any problem (im not bein sarcastic im bein dead serious) so i do think melee needs to be changed for the better.

To me it seems like everyone has the same style of play , 2 simple melee hits followed by a generic ball while u cant recover or the infamous block-throw when u try to simple melee them. Also the roll exploit the ceiling exploit and the Adv melee exploit which some call "advanced speed" which is really pure bull**** if u ask me.

When 1.2 came out i thought adv melee would be a big factor in it but it seems more to me like the only way to win is to use simple melee with the same old two hits. Theres not any variety it more like fighting the same people except some teleport more or less or do more or less cheap things. Its basically now a game of who can out lame who to win.

Now about the trunks thing his melee is ok ive come to realize more attacks arent gonna make him any better (tho ive suggested many for him) but wut trunks needs most is speed, give him his sword back, then probably make his damage ratio higher on his melee attacks and his burning attack. His sword was really his only advantage in the first place.

And about turbo, its ecome unreal how much damage turbo does in all things now. Melee, beam attacks everything increases so much with turbo on its damn near impossible to lose with it on if u kno wut u are doing. I think its bull how strong gen beams get with turbo on. one semi charged gen ball as a super saiyan can take about 30-40 hp and its jus plain ridiculous.

There should be no way that a gen beam can beat a fully charged kamehameha with little effort. ive had it done to me and ive also done it.

So if u ask then yes i agree with Carnage on some things, some things do need to be changed immediatley b4 things really get out of hand

 

[Skiwan]

Sorry to say, but the beta testers don't represent the team in any way possible (except the beginners maybe). ALL of the bugs found since 1.2 were found by players and new ones are still being found. It's inevitable and I'm glad you hired more betatesters, but still, I HARDLY if EVER see them in a server. Even then, they usually have the skill of an average newcommer. I suggest it would be smarter to get some clanleaders or something, those who actually play esf on a regular basis. That way you'll get lots of feedback and also establish contact outside of the beta sessions.

I think you're mistaking that beta testers for "pro's" just because they're not amazing at the game and dont go and play it all the time doesnt mean they cant find bugs, and for your information i know for a fact alot of the people on the beta testing team do play esf on a regular basis, myself included. I'd like to remind you that the testing fever started only a few weeks ago, and scince then every cheap tactic/exploit has been brought up in the beta testing section its not on mantis to stop people from going on there and learning how to be cheap. The beta testing team are doing a great job so dont worry about that.

 

[Chakra-X]

I woudln't call exploits making a game unbalanced..Because using exploits CAN be stopped if the person just didn't use that exploit. If Buu started out with 2,000,000 pl and gohan 500,000, yeah that's unbalanced and it is beyond the player's control to fix it.

I don't really see what is so bad about trunk's advantages, i mean he is supposed to be a melee-savvy character.

As for trubo, yeah, I can kinda see a super saiyan in turbo using a full generic bal to take down 1/4 of someone's health (don't like it, but I can deal with it), but when somebody is in their normal state and in turbo, shooting a barely charged generic ball taking off about 20 hps, that is kinda rediculous. However, turbo should have a very notciable amount of damage plus to an attack so it has a purpose.

It is kind of sad that basic melee is practically the only way to be considered good in the game, but that's how it is right now, but i'm not single minded enough to stop playing just because the game isn't perfect :S

 

[nsw316]

Now I understand this is a Beta, and that you guys have lost interest in this mod since its long run of almost 4-5(?) years, but this is your game for the most part. Which means you shouldn't change take out things that you see are fair.

There are many beta testers playing, or atleast in America there are. I've played with Alea, Phatslugga, Draylock, KilledWithStyle, Sarutobi Sensei, Magus (havent seen him in a long while tho) Ravendust. Now with my small conversations with these few they've told me they put their input in on these 'bugs' and 'exploits' and that could appease my satisfaction for the beta tetsters. And for the most part these are players that I would consider some of the best, Saru can find bugs as fast as anyone, Phat Dray and Alea all have a sense of fairness to them and a levelhead to judge if something is an exploit or not.

~ Hey! I may not be a tester anymore but back in the day you had your fair share of time with me too and I made changes! - Boyster

The Beta Testers may not always be on, but this isn't their life. They play this in their sparetime or when they're bored. They don't do it religiously to find bugs all day long. They did apply for this, and the team did their job in accepting people who they thought could help ESF grow to a better mod.

Although some people may think this game is unbalanced, that is how DBZ is. There were never even terms with anyone, except maybe the final forms of the villian and the main hero- Goku. In the show melee took atleast a good 4 shows for a fight to finish so that would mean it's very weak right? But the special attacks of the players usually killed anything/everyone in one shot. If the ESF Team wants to be more realistic to the show and then try to balance it once they set that premise it is their perrogative.

-meh I'll start to ramble off if I havent already so Ill leave this alone...

 

[Skiwan]

Here's a couple of bugs that are not in Mantis (or maybe they are but theyre labeled differently...)

CENSORED!

All of those are either on mantis or the beta tester forums, because we dont wanna broadcast exploits in the game to the public. Some of them have already been fixed, and some have changed because things in the game have changed.

 

[KidMan]

The one thing I worry about is, when they release 1.3, will it be 100% bug free with no exploits or will they slack off a bit and have like 2 bugs in there and a couple exploits? If they do that then i don't want the team to release the game at all. If they are able to take out most of the bugs then why not take them all out? It makes the game play better and it makes it so people won't be cheap to use the exploits. I mean seriously, would you release a music cd to the public knowing that one of your songs has glitches in it and isn't playable? No of course not cause that would hurt your profit. Im not saying the team is getting paid but Im saying why release something thats not perfect?

 

[KarrdeKNR]

Perfection is impossible. That's all there is to it. We could test all day and not find something, only to have something found when it's released. That's where a lot of the current bugs/exploits come from. Once something's in the community, problems are found rather quickly since there's more ppl doing it.

 

[KidMan]

Perfection is impossible. That's all there is to it. We could test all day and not find something, only to have something found when it's released. That's where a lot of the current bugs/exploits come from. Once something's in the community, problems are found rather quickly since there's more ppl doing it.

But will the team do updates to get rid of them or will they wait for another release like 1.4?

 

[Rayos]

You sure ask quite a lot for a free mod...they will do what they wish and how they wish to do it...that is the end of the discussion i would beleive

 

[Chang Wufei]

70/2 stats doesn't mean anything in this game...beating beginners i can have a 100-0 record...don't mean i am good...

rofl..if anyone else had said that...i would laugh and agree..but since its Saru..im gonna go ahead and disagree..<_< cuz Saru is good <_< cheap..but good <_<

 

[Laguno]

To me it seems like everyone has the same style of play , 2 simple melee hits followed by a generic ball while u cant recover or the infamous block-throw when u try to simple melee them. Also the roll exploit the ceiling exploit and the Adv melee exploit which some call "advanced speed" which is really pure bull**** if u ask me.

It is kind of sad that basic melee is practically the only way to be considered good in the game, but that's how it is right now, but i'm not single minded enough to stop playing just because the game isn't perfect

:yes: :yes: :yes:

 

[|Overlord|]

there is nearly an exploit in someone somewhere , even most of us have some weak point to our fighting style (they will have a weak pint somewhere witch they may need to work on) you can't just say that everyone is cheap and does this , when there is always room for improvement for nearly anyone that plays the game.

 

[Sephize]

I believe that in 1.1 offensive was the only way to go and beat another. In 1.2, the best runner wins in most cases, unless the offensive player is a lot better. I like the freedom in 1.2's movements, but be real, a drop faster then a swoop? since when did that happen in DBZ?

Safe to say ESF isn't DBZ.

imo, the speed as it is, is easier to manage, I'll give u that, but they should reduce the speed of the fall accordingly and i dont mean gravity. Further more they should completely take out adv melee in all ways. Having it look like DBZ is well... impossible... thats for a beat-em-up like Tekken.

Further more I think they should take out the huge PL start differences and get the closer together, just like speed. A bit more speed and a bit less starting PL or something like that. Trade it off like that. It might not be DBZ style but ESF isn't DBZ

 

[Carnage the 1]

You sure ask quite a lot for a free mod...they will do what they wish and how they wish to do it...that is the end of the discussion i would beleive

Then they should just remove the suggestions forum then

More and more it is becomming clear that 1.2 has it's major downfalls, one being the melee system. I don't think they'll have the same amount of bugs/exploits in 1.3 seeing as they have alot more betatesters now.

Speaking of which, if they really do play in america, I have to apologize, it's just that I rarely see them on any server but they act like they know it all. Apparantly, they know more than I think but in europe there is hardly anyone around from the testing team so forgive my assumptions and ignore what I said.

Back to melee, it's obvious simple melee is now the most used type of melee in the average server and especially in the duel servers (there is even a simple melee only rule because it's more fun than anything else in this beta) so I hope the team focusses more on that part than altering adv melee.

 

[|Overlord|]

I believe that in 1.1 offensive was the only way to go and beat another. In 1.2, the best runner wins in most cases, unless the offensive player is a lot better. I like the freedom in 1.2's movements, but be real, a drop faster then a swoop? since when did that happen in DBZ?

Safe to say ESF isn't DBZ.

imo, the speed as it is, is easier to manage, I'll give u that, but they should reduce the speed of the fall accordingly and i dont mean gravity. Further more they should completely take out adv melee in all ways. Having it look like DBZ is well... impossible... thats for a beat-em-up like Tekken.

Further more I think they should take out the huge PL start differences and get the closer together, just like speed. A bit more speed and a bit less starting PL or something like that. Trade it off like that. It might not be DBZ style but ESF isn't DBZ

esf is "based" on dbz (just because you think it may lack a few features of dbz fighting doesn't just mean it's not dbz) , how is it not dbz , how can you call a game that has dbz related charcters not "dbz" ?. You also have to think of the balancing and how hard some things are to be implemented , & you wil find that sped was lowered in different situations through out dbz , ethier maybe they were stunned buy what their opponent was capable of or just when it was nessacary to go really fast or if they had to catch up to someone and slowed down to their speed if they were going slower then the speed they were to catch up to that person (i'll use goten and trunks as an example , if you revise dbz a bit you may very well know the scene i am talking of)

 

[Carnage the 1]

Seph is right tho, even tho it's only 'based' on dbz, it shouldn't just stay at the characters. For balance reasons it could be changed, but seph is right that a drop should never be faster than a swoop regardless of transformation. That reminds me of the EVM turbo swoop, I know this would just help out bigtime for something like that. The so-called runners of today are similar to the HOWers from 1.1 in one way or another. Both wait till you make the first move and dodge everything to get one hit on you, usually a fight with a runner will take about 90x longer than a normal fight and runners vs runner usually lasts a century or two. Fights can take long, that's ok, as long as they're fun. There is no fun in chasing someone all day only to get blocklamed at the end. I think that running is even worse than HOWing seeing as in 1.1 you could utilitize your speed to overcome them, but 1.2 is so... slower (lol) that you can't use that anymore. Figuring out other tactics basically ends up in becomming a runner yourself which means you might as well just not fight.

 

[|Overlord|]

but sometimes balance is tossed aside to add in an advantage (like with various charcters such as trunks , crap for pses but good for melee) & in the current situation you see people sayying that trunks is unbalanced , but at present imo , he is balanced enough , early transformation , new attack when transed and a sword. When you look at factors like that , it's what you have to think that gives a game it's balance

 

[Grega]

well i give you right on that but speed is still an isue with a fiew characters.

Lets say 2 people that heve the same level of skil.

1 is Buu and 1 is Trunks. I bet a lot that Buu will win cause hes a lot faster.

You can only play runks efectivly if the enemy is not as good as you.

But seeing to where this tal is leading i dont agree with Carn and Seph eather.

First its a game that is made in the free time of the peole making it.
Second its a beta with bugs that the team is fixing.
And third this thread is arguing from ONLY a fiew people whilst the comunity is thusands of people.

Its safe to say we dont know all facts but we still want to change evrything like we want it to be.

Remember the ending decision is allways up to the team.

 

[Skiwan]

Please realise carnage, that alot of the things you mention are going to be or already have been adressed by the team for 1.3.

As for the fall from swoop i agree it should be removed, though its an important part of fighting in 1.2, because it means you dont have to charge your ki quite so often, if it were removed i'd like to see swoop costing a bit less ki.

As for running, its just another tactic, and if you fall for it, its not really the teams fault, you could use it to your advantage. If anything this adds more to the gameplay than the only way to win is being on the offensive, trying to beat the other guys angle is all well and good, but i'd rather use everything i can to my advantage instead of jumping in headlong because i know there is less of a chance of winning if my opponent uses better angles. Its much more sensible to let your attacker try his best to hit you, avoid it, and when he's low on ki attack back, thats not cheap it's sensible. It wont work on some players cuz they get wise to it and start to be more defensive themsleves, so then again you have to change your tactic by putting pressure on them in a way that wont put you at risk. I see what you say about chasing somebody to get blocklamed, but in the end, you fell for it, you attacked them in a predictable enough way that they gained the advantage. I see no reason to blame the game for having a larger variety of tactics, the main reason i wasnt so keen on 1.1 was because there was less of the tactics, it was more about reaction time and "skill" therefore it became less about how intellegant you are and more about how use you are to the controls imo.