Gameplay is ****ed Up

[Carnage the 1]

Ya, I'm not flaming, I'm just saying that this is far from the best that can be done.

 

[KarrdeKNR]

And keep in mind, the ppl who really liked 1.1 started out playing then. 1.1 is so very inaccesible to new players since the learning curve is just nuts and it would drive many ppl off. Sure, you mightlike it better, but you'll be playing with the same ppl forever because most ppl would drop it right away since they couldn't even hit anybody once.

 

[Kama]

Ya, I'm not flaming, I'm just saying that this is far from the best that can be done.

So take it upon yourself to do better instead of *****ing if it's so simple.

 

[Grega]

And keep in mind, the ppl who really liked 1.1 started out playing then. 1.1 is so very inaccesible to new players since the learning curve is just nuts and it would drive many ppl off. Sure, you mightlike it better, but you'll be playing with the same ppl forever because most ppl would drop it right away since they couldn't even hit anybody once.

Basicly you cant get rid of this

There is lots of people who still complain how har it is to learn this game.

Althou i like this version more than 1.1 i still agree with Carn on 1 thing. Simple melee is to easy to pull of 2 hits and the limit isrediculus.

So i suggest putting the distance and speed of 1.1 to teh blow so itll be harder to perform, make teh hit limit to 3 and replace the rolling with sliding wich can only be hit from 2 directions up and donw so it cant be abused.

As for new people i think they wouldnt mind about simple melee since 99% of them use advanced melee.

 

[Carnage the 1]

So take it upon yourself to do better instead of *****ing if it's so simple.

Heh, wish it were THAT simple, but what would you know about what happens in esf anyway? As far as I know you only play in closed beta sessions and the only info you get is through these forums.

Speaking of that, the only 'team' member I've seen is prozac and cold steel, even that was only once. Then how can you know what bothers people?

Yes, 1.1 is too hard for most, I started at 1.0 so I got a headstart. I'm not that idiotic to keep my view on that. You probably have already seen some of my suggestions to make both parties somewhat happy. I've even contacted several team members to get my suggestions through or at least discussed. So far, I didn't get a negative response but I still don't know if anything is used or not so I'm still left in the dark.

So I'd appreaciate it if you would be less of an *beep* tyvm

 

[Devion]

Heh, wish it were THAT simple, but what would you know about what happens in esf anyway? As far as I know you only play in closed beta sessions and the only info you get is through these forums.

Speaking of that, the only 'team' member I've seen is prozac and cold steel, even that was only once. Then how can you know what bothers people?

Yes, 1.1 is too hard for most, I started at 1.0 so I got a headstart. I'm not that idiotic to keep my view on that. You probably have already seen some of my suggestions to make both parties somewhat happy. I've even contacted several team members to get my suggestions through or at least discussed. So far, I didn't get a negative response but I still don't know if anything is used or not so I'm still left in the dark.

So I'd appreaciate it if you would be less of an *beep* tyvm

1.1 wasnt hard, it was hard when you played against pro.

I remembered some dude got you and Lynx(If I remember correctly) in his server, I was stunned by the speed of the game (And angry of the Buu cookie combo, which made it impossible to kill you ;x)

 

[Kama]

Heh, wish it were THAT simple, but what would you know about what happens in esf anyway? As far as I know you only play in closed beta sessions and the only info you get is through these forums.

Speaking of that, the only 'team' member I've seen is prozac and cold steel, even that was only once. Then how can you know what bothers people?

You're joking right? I'm on the team, I attend the meetings, I talk to the rest of the staff. Indeed, what would I know about what happens in ESF.

 

[Carnage the 1]

did you read? Do you ever join public servers? do you actually fight clan leaders or something? hmm?

 

[DJ-Ready]

Speaking of that, the only 'team' member I've seen is prozac and cold steel, even that was only once. Then how can you know what bothers people?

im playing on public servers frequently aswell >_>

 

[Carnage the 1]

Oops ^^, sorry bout that, yes I have actually dueled you once. Still, I hardly see you around nowadays as well...

 

[harSens]

Excuse me, but you call this balanced?

Without turbo your melee damage is minimal (probably how it should've been) but with turbo it's almost rediculous. Throwing is unblockable as soon as it's initiated and costs hardly any ki. Adv melee doesn't have a nomeleehittime. Beamjumping is unbalanced and hurts quite a bit with turbo. Buu is unbalanced, trunks is unbalanced, rolling exploit is unbalanced, ceiling exploit is unbalanced, the uuh... "stop-roll" glitch is unbalanced and adv melee glitch is.. well... somewhat unbalanced (as it is still blockable to a certain degree), PS char switch is unbalanced, kiblast damage is unbalanced (actually it's the turbo that causes lots of trouble).

A lot of that stuff will be, or is already changed in the inteam:
The turbo pl increase is the same as in 1.1. The melee system will be looked into whenever Joe finishes up his fx script stuff. Beamjumping does not increase your speed with turbo anymore, the beamjumping explosion radius is reduced. Characters with few attacks, like Trunks and Gohan gets some new attacks. We will re-balance the characters features for the next release. The kiblast is exactly the same as in 1.1. The other stuff you mention is bugs (I think). Feel free to post them on the bug forum if they're not in Mantis yet.

Speaking of that, the only 'team' member I've seen is prozac and cold steel, even that was only once. Then how can you know what bothers people?

So we're supposed to keep in contact with whoever in the community wants that? Some of us do. I personally hate having to deal with people that I don't , know nagging about stuff I need to do according to them, especially at times I'm doing non-esf stuff. If you have suggestions, use the suggestions forum. (Same for testers, if you want your ideas considered, show up at the once in a month shared meeting with the team).

 

[Carnage the 1]

Ugh, I'm not saying you should be best friends with ppl that play esf, but you could ask them for something they'd rather see different or new or whatever. The suggestion forum is hardly used by people that play esf regularly and most actually agree that 1.2 is way too slow and and restricted to stay interresting.

The turbo is far from the same. That's one thing I mean, anyone who plays esf knows that anything + turbo = huge damage. A kiblast for instance can do 20 hp just with turbo on, not to mention a fully charged generic beam.

Second, with trunks I meant his melee, not his lack of attacks and you THINK they are bugs? I suppose this proves my point that you don't get enough info there to work effectively seeing as you're also a coder. I don't know if PcJoe knows all this and I don't think you are doing a bad job, you just need to get of that chair that makes you think what you are doing is perfect.

I'm not even blaming you all, some individuals (not gonna mention names here) seem to think that they are gods and can whipe their butts with the suggestions that they don't like (of course there are a few that I would do the same to ^^). Anyway, my point is to snap out of it and actually listen to the community instead of locking yourself in mountains and assume everybody will love the next release. Or you could at least give us some hints on some what you are going to be using, keeping everything under the covers until you're nearly done is one way to get a nice excuse to not listen to criticisme.

I'm not trying to start a war here, but I am getting kind of fed up with some po0 po0 that we're given when we cricitise something.

 

[-Kai-]

Heh.. ESFTeamers..
I doubt any of you even know what are the bugs we are talking about ..
Maybe Dj-Ready knows because ive shown him some of them.
If you are so lazy and dont want to work.. why dont you take people who actually want to make ESF better and do care.
how about making 1.2.4 before 1.3?
unless you are going to release 1.3 in 1 month or less.
many people might quit this game cause of annoying exploits/bugs.
HarSen .. your reply to Carnage's saying about Trunks only proved what you know about the game you are making.
Anyway it seems to me like the ESF team leaks some Coders..
one coder cant do anything ... right?
You all know.. responds like "IT WILL BE DONE WHEN IT WILL BE DONE" wont really help you keeping this community alive. especially when you are counting on the noobs to continue this.. after all pros will leave this game cause of the annoying explots..?
It will end when both Pros and Newbies will stop playing this game.
Anyway.. i dont know how 1.3 is going to look but i believe combining 1.1 with 1.2 will do the best.
removing those idiotic exploits which you all dont even seem to care about.
.. Anyway.. <--- [email protected] // 62115710 i could offer you some Great coders.. that will even do the job faster than you think.

Even though this MOD is great.. youll have to keep it alive

Kai.

 

[Laguno]

Althou i like this version more than 1.1 i still agree with Carn on 1 thing. Simple melee is to easy to pull of 2 hits and the limit isrediculus.

sry for my bad english still learning it ..

ok exactly thats the reason why i started this damn tread :S

and pls dont tell me im too dumb to learn a ****ing game i would describe myself as a hardcore gamer i spend a few hours every day in playing ... and i play every genre im a god in bf 2 and not bad in warcraft 3 ...

and im not scared of learning this but playing a db mod only to abuse simple melee should not be the point of this game ...

ive played this mod 3 days and thats enough for me to pawn a few noobs and to learn nearly every move but the block skill youve added to the mod is useless againt simple melee ... even if you block the first simple melee strike your enemy will port and hit you again and the 2cond one will knock ya back for sure

and i know that i only can block attacks that are infront of me im not stupid ...

perhaps you should add some stun time for the attacker :

if you block a simple melee strike the attacker should get knocked back by hisself for 1-3 sec ? or just make both simple melee attacks blockable i rlly dunno but atm its just *** abusing ...

you will never see one of these (i call them "freaks") using adv melee cause theres no need to for them and they arent using any beams either ...

if youve created that game for ppl that only use simple melee you should perhaps just remove all other skills cause they wont use them anyway ..

anyway without simple melee this game would be more interesting cause adv. melee is a rlly cool feature and the defender has always a chance to block some attacks ...

even throwing your enemy with adv. melee is a good idea ...

however im sorry for my bad english im not american and not from england hopefully some of you understand my point of view

 

[harSens]

Ugh, I'm not saying you should be best friends with ppl that play esf, but you could ask them for something they'd rather see different or new or whatever. The suggestion forum is hardly used by people that play esf regularly and most actually agree that 1.2 is way too slow and and restricted to stay interresting.

So basicly you say the people that play esf regularly and don't like it, just whine and don't have constructive suggestions to make . If you have constructive suggestions, use the suggestions forum. That's what it is there for. If we don't move to the mountain, move the mountain to us.

The turbo is far from the same. That's one thing I mean, anyone who plays esf knows that anything + turbo = huge damage. A kiblast for instance can do 20 hp just with turbo on, not to mention a fully charged generic beam.

I did not intentionally change the turbo damage increase, so this might be a bug or some kind of mixup. I'll look into that, or get a tester to look into it.

Second, with trunks I meant his melee, not his lack of attacks and you THINK they are bugs? I suppose this proves my point that you don't get enough info there to work effectively seeing as you're also a coder. I don't know if PcJoe knows all this and I don't think you are doing a bad job, you just need to get of that chair that makes you think what you are doing is perfect.

I said Trunks will get new attacks, and the player characteristics will be worked through. Joe is responsible for the advanced melee, I don't know its glitches by head and I'm to lazy to go through Mantis for this now. I do know there are some glitches in it that are serious enough for us to consider another small patch between 1.2 and 1.3.

I'm not even blaming you all, some individuals (not gonna mention names here) seem to think that they are gods and can whipe their butts with the suggestions that they don't like (of course there are a few that I would do the same to ^^). Anyway, my point is to snap out of it and actually listen to the community instead of locking yourself in mountains and assume everybody will love the next release. Or you could at least give us some hints on some what you are going to be using, keeping everything under the covers until you're nearly done is one way to get a nice excuse to not listen to criticisme.

http://home.student.utwente.nl/h.vanwelbergen/esf/powerstruggles.pdf
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=52573
I agree we should update this stuff more often though.

I'm not trying to start a war here, but I am getting kind of fed up with some po0 po0 that we're given when we cricitise something.

Most of that poo poo is from other forum members or some over-protective testers and not from the team. Most of us like honest, constructive critisism more than the usual butt-kissing.

You might want to consider this is a beta which is well, to try stuff out. Also this is still a learning process for the team. Some of our ideas work out, some of them don't. One of the things we learned from 1.2 is to write down our ideas precisely before creating stuff that would be somewhat of a waste of effort to throw away. Another thing we learned is to get more feedback from the testing team (which should be a representation of the playing community).

If you want to help out esf, you can actively do so. If you see glitches or bugs that are not known or documented yet, post them on the bugs forum. There is no way we magicly know all bugs, and no matter what we make, there is always someone finding a glitch in it that the team and the testers never thought of. If you have suggestions, post them on the suggestions forum, as I said before.

 

[Nuttzy]

if you were the one winning would this thread even have existed in the first place laguno?

 

[Carnage the 1]

So basicly you say the people that play esf regularly and don't like it, just whine and don't have constructive suggestions to make . If you have constructive suggestions, use the suggestions forum. That's what it is there for. If we don't move to the mountain, move the mountain to us.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that most dont even bother to read the forums because they think they can't make a difference anyway.

I did not intentionally change the turbo damage increase, so this might be a bug or some kind of mixup. I'll look into that, or get a tester to look into it.

you dont need a tester, just join the average public and you would've found out a year ago

I said Trunks will get new attacks, and the player characteristics will be worked through. Joe is responsible for the advanced melee, I don't know its glitches by head and I'm to lazy to go through Mantis for this now. I do know there are some glitches in it that are serious enough for us to consider another small patch between 1.2 and 1.3.

That might actually be a good idea, I know it'd make us happier in any case. Some of these bugs are really killing the gameplay here and there (especially blocklaming). And it's no news that some of you are too lazy to do stuff as I've found out one way or another.

http://home.student.utwente.nl/h.vanwelbergen/esf/powerstruggles.pdf
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=52573
I agree we should update this stuff more often though.

Exactly, an outline doesnt handle the melee or anything close to that. Nor do silly videos of walljumping and showing off animations. That doesn't make us think about suggestions, only asskissin

Most of that poo poo is from other forum members or some over-protective testers and not from the team. Most of us like honest, constructive critisism more than the usual butt-kissing.

Doesn't show, youre friend kama apparantly doesn't like me posting something that might offend him.

You might want to consider this is a beta which is well, to try stuff out. Also this is still a learning process for the team. Some of our ideas work out, some of them don't. One of the things we learned from 1.2 is to write down our ideas precisely before creating stuff that would be somewhat of a waste of effort to throw away. Another thing we learned is to get more feedback from the testing team (which should be a representation of the playing community).

No kidding sherlock, of course it's beta but I think you don't see where your mistakes are (besides getting a huge amount of newbies to play the game).

Sorry to say, but the beta testers don't represent the team in any way possible (except the beginners maybe). ALL of the bugs found since 1.2 were found by players and new ones are still being found. It's inevitable and I'm glad you hired more betatesters, but still, I HARDLY if EVER see them in a server. Even then, they usually have the skill of an average newcommer. I suggest it would be smarter to get some clanleaders or something, those who actually play esf on a regular basis. That way you'll get lots of feedback and also establish contact outside of the beta sessions.

If you want to help out esf, you can actively do so. If you see glitches or bugs that are not known or documented yet, post them on the bugs forum. There is no way we magicly know all bugs, and no matter what we make, there is always someone finding a glitch in it that the team and the testers never thought of. If you have suggestions, post them on the suggestions forum, as I said before.

I did post suggestions and I don't recall anybody saying they were crap but I think they were long forgotten. Most of the bugs have already been posted, but again, you would know ALOT more if you had some people that know what they're talking about instead of saying "omg I got owned by someone who did this and that"

Eeh and no, I don't mean me by that ;P but clanleaders usually get involved with losts of stuff and will problems alot easier than betatesters. You don't need every clanleader in the world, but a few that are known and some unknown to get a view from several sides.

 

[Grega]

@Carnage
Haveing a team of pros is 2sided -_- They nead people who find stuff thats wrong not 1337 players but they can be trusted more than people who want in just for the sake of a new version.

@harsens
O.O washt the PS outline said to be forcepit material after it was removed a couple of weeks after it first surfaced

@Laguno
You still say you cant block the second punch O.O I dont get it. Thats only a problem if you are blocking Trunks. Or if you get hit my advanced melee as soon as you block simple melee. If you are talking about 2 simple melee punches than you can just teleport out of the way or something like that. Remember nothing is impossible.

 

[Carnage the 1]

#$@#$ You peolpe are all so lazy, you can't even read

quote myself:

You don't need every clanleader in the world, but a few that are known and some unknown to get a view from several sides.

With unknown I obviously mean the... newbies that haven't played for an eternity >_>

 

[Grega]

I know what you said but that isnt my point.

My point was just that you dont know how good people can see things. There is a chance you get a clanleader in and he will find some bugs. But there is also a chance that someone that isnt known gets in andfinds even more bugs. It isnt about whos side hes on its what he does thats important. And noone knows if he will preform good or bad.