ESF is broken

[Raeku]

Pain, do you even realize what the community is? The community I speak of isn't the people on this forum, it's the people that actually play the game.

You do not speak for all of us.

I understand the concern about wanting the game to be all it can be and all that. I also understand that maybe you would want to see "more" of the game before hand.

What I don't understand is how we are "locked out" and we "dont get anything" and all that. We do get a lot of info, videos, pics and we even get to see the disign documents. Now, I don't know if maybe you would like a complete video after every day showing exactly what they did (or as you would say it, DIDN'T do) and to then be able to break it down into peaces and tell us exactly why its wrong, but I would like some info and then also to have some held back. I want to play 1.3 and be "WoW, OMG, How the hell can I do that! Is that possible? What does this button do?" and have that element of surprise.

I also don't understand why the hell you guys are so biased (as stated in a thread at your forum) and why you guys want to forcefully tell the Dev Team that this is what you expect and that their previous work sucked and they better make up for it in the next release.

I also want the next version to be better and to balance out everything that might be wrong with 1.2.3, but I also know that me posting on the forum and asking everyone to agree with me isn't going to change all that. Maybe you should make an add on for ESF where you can finally get that perfect game you long for.

 

[Gon]

I don't know about you guys, but I see ESF turning into Tenkaichi.

Oh well, I'm just going to watch how ESF goes. Can't really play anymore since my computer broke.

I also think Sub has some good points and I want ESF to stay somewhat like it is, but people can't have everything they want.

Good luck on the developement of 1.3

 

[~*Logan*~]

Oh dear oh dear what a mess...

In spite of the current situation, I believe the ESF staff won't let us down. It's common sense to not waste years and years on something, knowing everyone will hate it. 1.2 was a big change from 1.1 and a lot of people hated the idea, yet 90% of them still played it anyway, even for a short time. And also, quite frankly, I've grown to like 1.2 more than 1.1

1.3 may very well be a huge change. I'll welcome it with open arms until I see a reason why it will be bad. I suggest everyone here to do the same thing.

Keep your hopes too high, and you might be dissappointed. However, keep your hopes too low, and you'll never find the courage to give it a shot at all. You decide what's logical.

 

[Super Veggeto]

You couldn't be more wrong.

1.) ESF is not a FPS.

Tenkaichi is not a FPS xD...

And I think (like many others) that ESF SHOULD pick up a different, more unique and closer to the show fighting system...maybe Tenkaichi is too much to compare with ESF but to be honest it has the fighting REALLY close the way they took place in the show.

Anyway...
If people have a hard time to master the game just play with bots.
When I first knew about ESF and played it for the first time (1.0) the only way for me to play was through Lan, against bots, couldnt play online from several reasons.
Untill 1.2.3 got released or so, then when I started joining servers I can say I was above avarage...I still get owned sometimes though =P

 

[Demonic Spoon]

I think this could be solved by one thing:

Put a "Single player" button that basically sets up a LAN game. When you get in, you get a message to check the manual (and the location of the manual) and the flash tutorial (and the location of that). It then tells you how to bring up the bot menu.

Problem solved, shouldn't be too much trouble. But since 1.3 is coming soon anyway, it's irrelevant.

 

[SaiST]

Add techs for throws and you have a fixed game.

 

[wheres_]

I think this could be solved by one thing:

Put a "Single player" button that basically sets up a LAN game. When you get in, you get a message to check the manual (and the location of the manual) and the flash tutorial (and the location of that). It then tells you how to bring up the bot menu.

That is acctualy a really, really good idea. The best part is it; wouldn't take all that much time or effort for the team to include.

 

[MC]

I think this could be solved by one thing:

Put a "Single player" button that basically sets up a LAN game. When you get in, you get a message to check the manual (and the location of the manual) and the flash tutorial (and the location of that). It then tells you how to bring up the bot menu.

Problem solved, shouldn't be too much trouble. But since 1.3 is coming soon anyway, it's irrelevant.

Well, ultimatly we'd like ESF to be easy to learn, yet hard to master. Training can be done against easy bots or the community could set up 'learning' servers. If we find the time, we might add a crash course like tutorial game.

The possibility of a tutorial hasn't been ruled out yet.

 

[Fire Phoenix]

I've been trying to avoid this thread for some time now. And, as history repeats itself, I'm sure you can understand why. But I'm going to say that, Sub, you are approaching the situation all wrong; with a hostile attitude, a closed mind and and being hypocritical in the sense that, you're doing exactly what you don't want the Dev team to be doing.

First things first, you say that you, and the community have absolutely no say in how the mod is shaped. If no one had any say, nothing would have gotten done. For example, you said Halorin got promoted to Beta Tester because of his views on ESF. You also stated he had saved 1.2 from getting basic melee removed. If what you say is true, and I'm honestly not sure if it is or isn't, then the same is true with you.

You can, if it applies to personal opinion, save this mod, if need be. For example, had you said "Here's why I believe ESF is broken, and how perhaps you should go about fixing it" things might have been different. Of course you'd have gotten feedback, with either agrees or disagrees. If everyone was agreeing with you, having the same mental image of ESF and liking it, the ESF team would probably take a look at it. You probably remember that one guy, I personally can not remember his name offhand, posted that enormous thread in the suggestions forum and even PcJoe considered it.

But what you are doing is saying "here is what is wrong with ESF, fix it." And I just think that's approaching it all wrong. And you're making problems worse by being closed minded and shutting out everyone else's opinion. And you're targeting Admins/Mods/PR because of that.

I used to be an active member of ESF, used to play all the time, used to be apart of your clan. So of course, through our differences, I can relate and understand where you're coming from, and I agree. ESF does need a lot of revision. You say people quit the game because it's too hard. That's not necissarily true. I quit because, well, I'm sure we all know why I no longer play ESF and have changed my name but that's not relevant to the matter at hand.

If, perhaps, people in the game, weren't like what Logan has suggested, people wouldn't quit so much. It doesn't take much to say "OMG YOU ****ING HACKER SUB, YOU'RE HACKING, STOP HACKING ******* I ****ING HATE YOU AND AM NEVER PLAYING AGAIN!!!" /ragequit. But it's also not hard to say "Hey hold on a second, calm down, let me show you the ropes, this is this, and that is that, it's not hacking, you can do it too."

Now, you're the pro, and with that you of course take a little more responsibility in the sense that you're right, a manual won't teach them everything, then again, neither will a tutorial, but when you sit down with someone and teach them how to play the game, then things become clear. If that guy gets better then he can help other people. And if everyone just stopped for a second, became mature about it, and said "Hey let me help you out" the community would be (1) nicer and (2) bigger.

And I understand the Zr clan tried to do something like that, but innactive members (myself included) and lack of maturity (myself included) didn't get us anywhere. And Hybrid, I want to congratulate you, you have represented ESF more than anyone here, always trying to help the community, always being neutral on both sides, and always trying to help while still being fun to talk to, and for some time, we had a great online relationship (it's wierd saying that ) but I think that this hostility isn't you, and it won't get you very far.

You have to do the same thing here; you have to be open minded and have a neutral discussion, taking into account what everyone says, and if you disagree with say Pain (because it's been heated with you two) then don't get hostile say "Pain, I respect your opinion, but I think that if so and so did this it would make this aspect better because.." and then Pain would of course reply with something along the lines of "That sounds better but I think this part of it might not work, let's build off from there.."

This is just my two cents, and I think you've done something great, and gone out of your way for a small community mod, just need to approach it differently is all.

Sincerly,
Fire Phoenix

 

[Omni]

Oh Brother.....
Learning Curve high? yes? bad thing? No.
You can learn the game in peace with bots or with friends in a server with a pass. So I dont see any problems with that.

Lets face it: ESF's average players age is is pretty low. Mostly players around a "low" a low age arn't going to be competitive. they find pac-man a hard game.

Simple melee to effective? God it so easy to avoid and block even if youre a mediocre player. A newb will get screwed time after time when he meet a pro. He doesnt know how to avoid simple melee and will get annoyed. He has 2 options.
1. quite the game and never look back
2. Try to improve and be a better player
Most will choose nr.1 because its the easy way. I won't miss them.

Now the question is the game really broken? In my opinion not at all.
It has its flaws ofcourse like any game but its impossible to balance it for both noobs and pro players alike. Most pro players dont use Buu or transform at all to keep them from totally obliviate everyone in a second.

Advance melee has it flaws,it has a learning curve of 5 min. After that you only get hit by randoms hit which are entirely based on luck. Also when transed beams have a explosion radius which IS almost impossible to avoid unlike melee. Transing in general makes noobs stronger even against pro players because there is no need for ki management at all! When I play i never transed because it actually bores me. Since 1.3 will be mostly a transform patch aka EVM, I dont really care if it comes out tommorow or in 10 years.

Good Day.

 

[wheres_]

Since 1.3 will be mostly a transform patch aka EVM, I dont really care if it comes out tommorow or in 10 years.

Good Day.

Have you not only been living inside a cave, under a rock for the past couple of years, but are also located on some far off planet?

Go look up what features 1.3 is going to include you silly ignorant little man.

 

[Omni]

Have you not only been living inside a cave, under a rock for the past couple of years, but are also located on some far off planet?

Go look up what features 1.3 is going to include you silly ignorant little man.

Actually you may want to read my sentence again in youre quote. Since you already pointed out you have problems with that i'll do it for you.

1.3 will be mostly a transform patch. I know there will be more features. and none really gets me excited, just a opinion.

You making a personal attack against me means as much as Paris Hilton getting a new dog. Now go play with a kangaroo or something. Choe! choe!

 

[Skiwan]

Hmmm it should bother you seeming as it will completely change how the game is played. The transforms are one of the lesser features.

Where's, the insult was a little uncalled for, i hope u ment it in a jesting way >_>

 

[wheres_]

1.3 will be mostly a transform patch. I know there will be more features. and none really gets me excited, just a opinion.

Transformation patch? You really are ignorant or just incredibly uninformed. 1.3 will be closer to a new game than a 'patch' and will include far more than more transformations, the list is seriously to large for me to be arsed writing right now. Go do some reasearch, you'll be pleasantly suprised

You making a personal attack against me means as much as Paris Hilton getting a new dog. Now go play with a kangaroo or something. Choe! choe!

No see, that was a personal attack. I was just joking/merely informing you of what your previous statement made you appear as considering what 1.3 will be and how differently you labeled it. Frankly metioning EVM in the same sentence as ESF is offensive enough, but to say 1.3 would be like EVM is just rude not to mention wrong.

Wait up;

You making a personal attack against me means as much as Paris Hilton getting a new dog.

What the hell does that even mean?

Where's, the insult was a little uncalled for, i hope u ment it in a jesting way >_>

Of course =P

 

[hiddenmist]

well hopefully 1.3 will not be like 1.2 which i know its not. so far the new vid thing is great. goku stands all different and stuff man looks cool. the models are great BTW.

well anyway hopefully in 1.3 the community will be willing to play and not be asses in the game. like spamm or lame oe pick on noobs. when there are noobs i try not to fight them i play the better players. but ppl like going after teh noobs to trans then spamm the living crap out of us lol. anyway hopefull 1.3 wont be like that. it all depends on the community

 

[Omni]

Transformation patch? You really are ignorant or just incredibly uninformed. 1.3 will be closer to a new game than a 'patch' and will include far more than more transformations, the list is seriously to large for me to be arsed writing right now. Go do some reasearch, you'll be pleasantly suprised

Again you don't seem to read or understand. So this time I will put one of my earlyer sentences in bold. I know there will be more features
You call it a new game I call it a patch V1.3. You can call me uninformed since im not a closed beta tester and dont read this forum every day.

No see, that was a personal attack. I was just joking/merely informing you of what your previous statement made you appear as considering what 1.3 will be and how differently you labeled it. Frankly metioning EVM in the same sentence as ESF is offensive enough, but to say 1.3 would be like EVM is just rude not to mention wrong.

You seem to be confused again. My statement was a joke and yours a attack.
Twisting things up like that doesn't make you look better. Where did I say 1.3 would be exactly like EVM? All I was referring to was that new transes and EVM had a link. Besides I hate EVM as much as you do. Since transforming totally unbalanced everything in 1.2 and more so in EVM.

What the hell does that even mean?

Nothing, like youre posts.

Of course =P

Not.

Now before you quote everything I say again, twisting things and telling me things I already know. Let me give you some advise and stay ONTOPIC.

 

[~*Logan*~]

From what I'm seeing here, Omni is saying something, people are correcting him, and he turns around and says he already knew that, then proceeds to continue his original "NEW FORMS ONRY" argument.

He'll most likely run in here and make a long, drawn-out argument about how I'm wrong too.

Omni, I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong. I know I know. It's impossible for you to be wrong. After all, you could never be wrong. Unfortunately, it's true. I'll let you take some time to soak that up a bit.

Now then. While you wildly and illogically claim to know everything about 1.3, let me ask you this. If this is just a mere "patch," then how about telling everyone what will NOT be changed in 1.3

After all, patches only add additions to the current gameplay. They don't completely change the game entirely. At least, that's what Omnipotent God Omni believes, for he is never wrong.

 

[Dokutayuu]

What other surprises does the ESF team have though? We don't know much (other than Pain having Heat-Vision, we found that out 5 updates ago, watch out thread spammers)

I'm hoping David releases the SSJ2 and SSJ3 Goku models, they're great. All the models look good so far aswell.

EVM will basically be wood if ESF is cheese on the plate of gameplay, good work team!

 

[Omni]

Omni, I hate to tell you this, but you're wrong. I know I know. It's impossible for you to be wrong. After all, you could never be wrong. Unfortunately, it's true. I'll let you take some time to soak that up a bit.

Now then. While you wildly and illogically claim to know everything about 1.3, let me ask you this. If this is just a mere "patch," then how about telling everyone what will NOT be changed in 1.3

After all, patches only add additions to the current gameplay. They don't completely change the game entirely. At least, that's what Omnipotent God Omni believes, for he is never wrong.

First of all you dont hate to tell me it. Secondly there is no good or wrong in this argument. Since you can interpretate it how you like. Besides I never claimed I know everything about 1.3, I even said im uninformed for the most part. So what made you think that? You probably backing-up youre forum buddy which is fine.

Also you basicly say to me, you think that a patch cant change the whole game! Where did you pick-up that part? I know perfectly well a patch can change the game entirely. I choose the word patch, you want me to use words like addition/expansion/new game? :]

Its funny to see how 1 sentence started all of this and even somone making a personal attack on me. While nobody even reacts to my whole story.
I quote: "Since 1.3 will be mostly a transform patch aka EVM, I dont really care if it comes out tommorow or in 10 years".

In my view the new transforms will be the 1 of the key stones of this patch. And some of the 1.3 features have something to do with it. Sure, there is alot more to it but it still doesnt make me excited. Just my view and my opinion. Now can we move on?

 

[~*Logan*~]

If you still think 1.3 is just a transform patch like EVM, you're just proving the rest of our statements true.

Also, I'm not backing up anyone. That's your assumption, as is pretty much everything you've said.

As far as being a patch goes, I restate my challenge. Name one single thing in 1.3 that will remain the same. A patch upgrades the current form of gameplay. It does not alter the game completely.

Take WoW or FFXI. Patches and Expansion packs add to the existing gameplay as well as fix errors and unbalanced content. They don't change how you fight monsters or how you go about doing quests or how you move and talk. The basic coding remains unchanged.

1.3 is changing EVERYTHING. It changes how you fight, how you move, and how everything reacts with one another. This isn't a patch. 1.3 is a complete remake from the ground up. New models, new forms, new sprites, new maps, and most of all...new gameplay entirely. The basic coding is redone from scratch. I ask you, no, I challenge you to prove me wrong.