ESF is broken

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ESF, from a gameplay perspective, is broken. This is coming from someone whose been playing ESF since 1.0 came out. 1.3 needs to bring some major changes to the table and I honestly doubt that it will.

Let's cut to the point though. Why is ESF broken?

The main reason ESF is broken is because of the learning Curve. This is by far the biggest problem with ESF, but it's infact caused by a mixture of other problems.

Let's face it, the learning curve is huge. You might say to yourself that this is ok, but when 99 percent of the people playing quit because it's too hard to learn, there's a problem. There is no safe place where people can go to learn to play the game. They can't learn ingame, they'd get killed before they even got a hit off. There's no place outside of the game, the only outside reference people have is the ESF manual, which doesn't help much. We can't even say the "secret melee combos" on the forum.

The next big reason is melee. Melee is a load of fun, don't get me wrong, but it's incredibly unbalanced. It's also the main cause of the huge learning curve the game has, simply because it's so effective. I'm talking about Simple Melee of course. Advanced Melee is neither fun nor useful. There's a pretty steep learning curve for Advanced melee and not any return to the player for learning such a system. This is because the outcome of Advanced Melee fights usually relies on random hits.

It kind of creates a Paradox. Yeah, you can have a lot of fun with Simple Melee and it's a great system, but no one learns it because of how effective it is. If you look at ESF's playerbase in America, the majority of the people playing are the ones that got the game when 1.2 first came out. Why is this? Is it because that was the only time when people could play the game without being dominated? I think so.

Then there's SSJ. This is the one area in the game that I believe will actually be fixed in 1.3. The current problem is that upon transforming, you gain two times the speed, Ki, PL, and more attacks. It's completely ridiculous. You can travel twice the speed at half the Ki cost. It removes one key aspect from the game, Ki managment. From my understanding, in 1.3, there's a constant ki drainage once you transform. This is a perfect way to fix the problem.

Truth be told, the issue of PL all together is unfair. You're rewarding the good players by making the game easier for them. If there is one pro on a server (which is usually the case), he can get enough of a PL advantage that anyone dies in one sequence of hits (for example, three simple melee hits + Yellow beam = death). The entire server is essentially at the discretion of the one pro in the server. If he wants to beamspam, everyone in the server will die, a lot. It's unacceptable to have one player consistently get a score of 100 - 5 and everyone else scores like 2 and 20.

I'm sure i'm leaving a lot out, but that's enough to build off of for now. Anyway, do you think I'm completly wrong? Completly right? Discuss.

Btw, keep it civilized please.
 
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Your completely right.

People in ESF are too good, I mean too good, these are the people I hate fighting against.

You know, the players press teleport the button more then 200 times while fighting some one, some one who constanly basic melees you until you die, the people that are professionals at double swooping and the secret comboing. Everything about ESF is unbalanced, the beams and melee only because people get way to good at it.

These players teleport constanly, the teleport feature is so unbalanced that it's quite amusing, SSJ throws a big load of **** on you, especially if your not a good player, or if your not transformed.
 
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I can easily assure you that every aspect of ESF is being re-worked. Which is in-part why it's been taking so long.

Melee, Beams, PL, Transformations, it's all being tweaked to prevent such situations are you've stated.
 
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Well i agree that the gameplay is broken. But thats cause of the players.

People have began to abuse the roll exploit without even knowing its there.

Ling ago the 3 hit max rule was made due to the constant roll exploiting. This rule said 2 hits in the air but only 1 hit on the ground. Now the people who came after that rule was made swiched its purpouse. They say 3 hits and do 1 air and 2 on the ground or even all 3 on the ground.

They call that fair gameplay. That even anoys me. The competition in ESf became so drastic that everyone just wants to win at any price. The lamer and easier to win the better.

Personaly i cant bring myself to do more than 1 hit on the ground and also i like to use advanced melee. Allthough i mostly use simple melee. Beams are also a fun factor. But they are to strong and they take to long to charge.

Beams are fun when using minimum charge. Also the beam detonation can be anoying but isnt a big problem with minimum charge.

Basicly the gameplay is broken because the peoples ideas about playing it are broken.

That goes for new players aswell as for pros. Most of the people who start playing want to own from the begining and get totaly anoyed when you tell htem to learn the basics using the flash tutoreal or manual.

The few who actualy listen to you become better in a week or two. In such a short time they start standing up for themselvs and are actualy able to win most other people.

Anyhow im making an idea list wich ill post depending on the current (ESF 1.2.3) gameplay system.

I know i can make it for what ive seen of the 1.3 system but this way more people can coment on the ideas.
 
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There's actually a possible way to get over 5 hits.

It's really annoying if you are the one getting hit.

Just knock someone twice with basic melee, then hit the wall and bounce off, hit them 2 more times then they hit the ground then you hit them while they are rolling, that should really be fixed, know that you think about it, 1.3 might even be like 5 updates from 1.2.3 considering that it is taking so long.
 
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I dont think teleport is that much to blame, infact it can be the saviour. The other things mentioned, yes... very much so.

I know what you mean about the learning curve, but i hate to say it, there's something i like about it. It actually feels like you're getting more powerful the better you get at the game, it actually is like "omfg he's so quick and powerful". I understand completely what you mean, a lot of people are comepletely put off when they first start playing, but i really think 1.3 is going to significantly change that, things are being radically changed.

I see what you're saying about powerlevel, but its not a unique concept, look at natural selection, you get experience/upgrades in that, and it benefits you in various ways, same with other games like enemy territories. I really like some kinda experience/upgrading in online games, its another way of measuring your progress as well as enabling other options (such as transforms).

Overall, alot of the problem's you've discussed I do agree with, but many have already been resolved in 1.3. 1.3 is going to be a huge change, trust me.
 

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Davidskiwan said:
I dont think teleport is that much to blame, infact it can be the saviour. The other things mentioned, yes... very much so.

I know what you mean about the learning curve, but i hate to say it, there's something i like about it. It actually feels like you're getting more powerful the better you get at the game, it actually is like "omfg he's so quick and powerful". I understand completely what you mean, a lot of people are comepletely put off when they first start playing, but i really think 1.3 is going to significantly change that, things are being radically changed.

I see what you're saying about powerlevel, but its not a unique concept, look at natural selection, you get experience/upgrades in that, and it benefits you in various ways, same with other games like enemy territories. I really like some kinda experience/upgrading in online games, its another way of measuring your progress as well as enabling other options (such as transforms).

Overall, alot of the problem's you've discussed I do agree with, but many have already been resolved in 1.3. 1.3 is going to be a huge change, trust me.
I'd like to trust you guys, but everyone said the same thing about 1.2 and look at the topic we're in right now. Can you guys please give me some specific examples of how the game will be drastically changed?

Something I personally think the game needs is an ingame tutorial. I realize that the chances of this getting in are slim to none, but it would help the game out tremendously.
 
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Last i heard, we were working on an ingame tutorial. I'll give you a broad generalisation of the changes as im not sure how much detail i should go into. Swooping wont be at all like it is now, and everything will be a lot more closer range and completely unpredictable - especially with the inclusion of stamina, advanced melee will now be more real time and skill based. Not only that, but we've been going to lengths to improve and balance many energy attacks throughout the game, and we'll be using a new way to balance powelevels/transforms. There are more caps on damage and beam radi, as well as the new skill/tactical powerstruggling. There are just so many changes in 1.3 it wont be like the esf you know now.
 

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Davidskiwan said:
... Swooping wont be at all like it is now, and everything will be a lot more closer range and completely unpredictable...
dont do that.
 
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Why may I ask? Im not saying whether or not i agree with you, I just would like to know why.
 
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The funny thing is that you are wrong.
 
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OblivionKnight said:
lol the funny thig is version 1.3 will NEVER be released. Its all a joke.
And you know that why?

Sine im a beta tester i see the updates first hand. They are there. They are totaly difrent.

Heck the new swoop systemhad me a bit shorthanded due to the way its difrent than 1.2

Its something totaly new. And it isnt even perfectionalised yet.

Now tell me why would people be doing this if they werent planing to release it. It consumes way to much time to be a simple prank.
 
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... Swooping wont be at all like it is now, and everything will be a lot more closer range and completely unpredictable...
From what I remember it was said that the double tapping will be taken out, which is a huge improvement. Most people starting off have enough trouble swooping whenever they want to. Changing the swoop in that way should remove the most pathetic class of skill, when someone starts the game for the first time, they will at least be able to swoop back against other players.

But Im not sure what you mean by closer range and comepletely unpredictable. You dont actually mean "completely" unpredictable? like random arrows unpredictable -_-?

I also agree with david on the learning curve... I like the fact that one person can take on a server of 6 players and still own... all because of individual skill. I honestly dont think i have ever played or heard of a game where one person can aquire so much skill that they can beat someone that has been for a month or two, 10 to 0. Esf stands out like that, its what makes the game one of the best imo.

When I started playing in january of this year, it was one of the first things I realised. That you can really become known as "the best" or close to it. Thats what makes the game really cool, its a small community, where everyone knows each other at the higher skill levels, and how good someone is by reputation. As long as the basics of the game stay the same, there will always be side hits and there will always be people that master the game beyond others, and I hope that never changes.

Also I remember someone saying there was going to be a tutorial ingame actually, im really thinking thats gonna help a lot.
 
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to me, the most blaring problem is that there seems to be no advantage what so ever to playing unpredictably, i can pretty accuratly map out the general tactic most "pros" fallow while playing(more on that later) it gets to the point where i question why they don't just spend the time at work, i mean it just seems it would get vary mundane doing it over and over.

i disagree with the learning curve, its a lot easier when you actualy observe whats going on while your playing. prehaps the problem (for melee) is that the dodge arrows are all the way near the corner of the screen, it would be more obvious if it was closer to the center. yah the controls can be a little more obvious but once you get the hang of swooping and real melee(none of that pansy knock back crap) its all down hill

the avrage "pro's" script:
teleport to dodge
swoop and knock back
swoop and knock back
use ki blobs when enemy is on ground
repeat
 

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If skills are equal, one who plays unpredictably will be better than one who follows a pattern. But that's completely beside the point.
 
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evirustheslaye said:
to me, the most blaring problem is that there seems to be no advantage what so ever to playing unpredictably, i can pretty accuratly map out the general tactic most "pros" fallow while playing(more on that later) it gets to the point where i question why they don't just spend the time at work, i mean it just seems it would get vary mundane doing it over and over.

i disagree with the learning curve, its a lot easier when you actualy observe whats going on while your playing. prehaps the problem (for melee) is that the dodge arrows are all the way near the corner of the screen, it would be more obvious if it was closer to the center. yah the controls can be a little more obvious but once you get the hang of swooping and real melee(none of that pansy knock back crap) its all down hill

the avrage "pro's" script:
teleport to dodge
swoop and knock back
swoop and knock back
use ki blobs when enemy is on ground
repeat
The arrow system is being scrapped in 1.3.
 
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The main reason I am still loyal to ESF is in hope that it will one day return to it's 1.0 or 1.1 days, when the game wasn't as complicated or insane.

There were exploits/bugs back then, but the base of the game was fun, and not too much to deal with, which made it feel more like work, than entertainment.
 
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your right Sub, I realy hate it when a pro spam from teleport , he simple mele me like 5 times in air and 2-4 time on the ground and after i'v recovertd i had only 5 hp where is the balance in this
 
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john_volkov said:
your right Sub, I realy hate it when a pro spam from teleport , he simple mele me like 5 times in air and 2-4 time on the ground and after i'v recovertd i had only 5 hp where is the balance in this
actually I find it ok, I just think the victim should have more of a chance to launch a counterstrike.
 

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