Dropping adv. melee?

[KYnetiK]

Adding more features creates more work in sustaining balance, and hence usually leads to a greater average imbalance than there was before. I dont think anything in 1.3 thus far is imbalanced, but it could quickly become a mess if more and more features are implanted and we're not careful about it. Im just saying keeping features as simple and functional as possible is in our best interests, which im sure we all agree. ^_^

 

[)v(ajin Vegetto]

agreed
but (example) replacing a tackle with a throw would not be fair for everyone as ppl like the throwing feature and others would like a tackle implention.. so why not keep both and aprove apon

 

[KYnetiK]

I think we should have both, i figured out a system to have both tackle and throw, as well as a meatshielding grab, so it can be done.

 

[Zeonix]

Devising a system to make all full-contact systems work isn't difficult. I just don't know that the team thinks there's even anything wrong with throw. If that's the case, I'd rather just have it removed than have a "**** you" button. If throw is going to work, it needs to have a shorter duration, it needs to consume more ki, and the opponent needs to be able to fight back. In 1.2, that's actually how it was. Holding left click meant you were able to stop the thrower a lot of the time. I'm not sure why that changed with the patches.

 

[KYnetiK]

I thought struggling against throws was getting more and more pointless. I agree here, the throw should be much quicker and have a better struggling system. Having stamina in the equation should make it more of a sacrificial technique. How would a pumping method work in a throw do you reckon?

 

[Zeonix]

The way it was described in the 1.2 manual, I'd imagine. There's a bar on the side divided between red and blue. As you're being thrown, the throwee pumps ki into the struggle to escape. If the indicator bar goes to the blue side, you win. If the bar goes to the red side, the thrower wins. If the thrower runs out of ki during the struggle, the throw is cancelled. If the person being thrown runs out of ki, he's ****ed.

 

[KYnetiK]

Amping the ki cost and shortening the animation duration would please me really. Perhaps holding RMB down as well could consume your stamina as well to make the throwers ki burn even faster? This way you could choose to struggle harder but sacrifice your stamina to do so. Just an idea, but the 1.2.0 system would be enough.

 

[Zeonix]

Amping the ki cost and shortening the animation duration would please me really. Perhaps holding RMB down as well could consume your stamina as well to make the throwers ki burn even faster? This way you could choose to struggle harder but sacrifice your stamina to do so. Just an idea, but the 1.2.0 system would be enough.

I'm not completely sure as to what is affected by stamina at this point, so I'll hold off on that for now. It's a good idea though.

 

[Snowm@n]

I have been thinking in a possibility, please comment:

How about advanced melee be a combination of basic melee? I'll explain:

You can do the usual thing, wile pushing RMB you will give a puch or kick to the opponent and the swoop again to make another basic hit and so on....bla bla bla.

But, how about if you have a quick "combo making time" every time you do basic melee to the opponent? For example, you hit the opponent with basic melee, and wile he does not recover wile going back, you can do a super fast combo.

In game experience would be like this:

I hit the enemy with basic melee. The enemy is flying back stuned and depending on his stamina i will have a depending time to make a quick combo (not with arrows, you choose the combo if you know what it will result in). If the enemy is low on stamina he will take more time to recover giving me more relaxing time to make the quick combo. SO THE guy is flying back stuned, and wile I point the cursor to him I push "RMB+LMB+SPACE", and the combo could result like a teleportation to the back of the enemy and give him with the elbow on the neck making him to go down. Other combo could result on the same teleportation but with a diferent attack like a kick in the face. Other combo could even result on the same teleportation but followed by a quick vaporation beam. Other combo could result in a ultra fast swooping to the direction of the enemy (not controlable direction wile in this swoop) and hit him from the front. And every time you hit him he would go back stuned giving you an oportunity to make another combo. This way the game would have variety of movements, unfortunately not those ultra fast punches like 5 in one second, but since people are giving more importance to the basic I think this could work.

 

[KYnetiK]

I kind of like this. Almost reminds me of hypermode in ECX. Should drain your ki/stamina dramatically. The specific move used need to be more controllable though imo. Perhaps a direction should be pressed as well as LMB+RMB+SPACE or something.

I dont like this bit though;

"ultra fast swooping to the direction of the enemy (not controlable direction wile in this swoop) and hit him from the front."

You should have to do this manually yourself, like a standard basic melee combo. Personally i think you should be able to easily swoop after enemies for sequential melee hits instead of teleporting, or maybe i just need to practice.

 

[Zeonix]

How about:

2 clickers, one for regular simple melee, the other for simple melee with combos. The first remains as is, the second would allow you to hold down the clicker, essentially charging the combo. The less the bar is charged the weaker the combo. I'm thinking maybe we have a bunch of animations for the 3 types of hits, those being weak, medium and strong. When you're within hitting distance and you let go, rather than knock the character away at high speeds, you do your little combo thing hitting the opponent for x damage, where x varies between the 3 types of damage. While performing the combo, you'd be covering essentially the same distance as a regular simple melee hit and within the same amount of time. This gets rid of the feeling that you're just waiting around.

If both players do the charged melee thing, the one who charged it the most would do full damage, but would receive half or a smaller fraction of the damage. I don't know, make a counter animation and have the guy transition into his combo. If both are fully charged, or they both charged the same amount, they could do that thing numerous people have suggested, where they fight the way Majin Vegeta and Goku did in that one episode. I guess you could turn that into a mini-game, in the same vein as 1.2's HOWs (while the combo animations are going, both players are inputting the appropriate directional keys).

I don't know why a person would choose the secondary simple melee over the primary melee, though. The idea obviously hasn't really been thought out. Anyway, is it worth thinking about and expanding upon or should I try something different?

 

[KYnetiK]

Wow i like this...a lot. Charge system would work well imo. Gives melee that bit of animation variety with dynamic damage. I imagine full power could be the vaporisation ki blast. Not sure what role directional keys would play though (variating animation or controlling direction enemy is knockedback, if knocked back or stunned) Does need a bit of sussing out with animations and effects, but i really like the principle behind it.

 

[Damaera]

It sounds like a pretty good idea so far. I like it.

 

[Snowm@n]

.....
"ultra fast swooping to the direction of the enemy (not controlable direction wile in this swoop) and hit him from the front."

You should have to do this manually yourself, like a standard basic melee combo. Personally i think you should be able to easily swoop after enemies for sequential melee hits instead of teleporting, or maybe i just need to practice.

It was just an example of move get it? It would be a super fast swoop so it would not be just another normal swoop, and the it could be a head hit to the enemy. Still i would really like the teloportation + vaporation beam.

And the charging wile making combo.....that is a bit more complex for a simple mele system i think.

Still I think we could get some were with this

 

[Zeonix]

And the charging wile making combo.....that is a bit more complex for a simple mele system i think.

Still I think we could get some were with this

...all you're doing is holding down the clicker.

 

[kam!]

I like that idea, so I'll work with it a little:

You'll have to make the "combo clicker" special (as in useful) enough to be used, but add a drawback so it isn't chosen over normal simple melee.

So I thought it could work this way:
Weak charge would cause less damage than LMB hit, but would also cause weaker knockback, making it easier to
chain another attack. Charging the combo would make it stronger (slightly exceeding simple melee hit
medium charged, more considerable damage increase for full charge) but would also make you swoop/move progessively slower.

That way, strong comcos are not abusable, since you are more vulnerable, but they also inflict more damage/stun/knockback(?) than safe simple hits.

 

[Snowm@n]

Why are you guys complicating things? Cant you swoop charge before you hit someone? so you swoop charge to the maximum PL, make some sequences like I suggested and hit again once more, you dont need to recharge again after you basic melee someone because basic melee does not decrease all that was charged in 1 second. So measuring the swoop charge that you have when you hit the enemy it will make more damage. Of course if you dont swoop charge befor going to melee or just go dash you will have always the same power hiting all the way.



I think all it is missing now is a way for the attacked can defend him self "instead of just trying to regain his senses". Perhaps clinking RMB and LMB one at a time but very fast would give him a 20% possibilites of automaticly dogde the attack. Or wile making this click session also click the direction to were you want to escape.

 

[Toxen]

Well personally ive never been into those "a chance you might escape/dodge" or "a chance you might do that". To me it makes the game random just like advanced melee is. And personally I think thats something that should be avoided. The game should be put down to skill alone... And remove as many luck factors as possible.

but thats just me i guess..

 

[Snowm@n]

humm you're right, probability should not be a melee factor. But how to create a way of dogding so it does not allways work, or hard to make, without having any kind of arrows sequences?

 

[Zeonix]

Well personally ive never been into those "a chance you might escape/dodge" or "a chance you might do that". To me it makes the game random just like advanced melee is. And personally I think thats something that should be avoided. The game should be put down to skill alone... And remove as many luck factors as possible.

but thats just me i guess..

Agreed .