Vegeta vs. Kid Buu - SSJ or SSJ 2 ?

[Phatslugga]

Umm, those four pictures... they look the same, the only difference is the color of the hair, but that's do to atmospherical conditions (him about to do the final shine). His hair is always in different places becuase of the wind, not becuase of different forms in those pics. I beleive goku did fight kid buu and SSJ2 becuase he wanted to extend the fight so vegeta could get a chance, then vegeta said that he wouldn't last so goku had wasted his opportunity to kill kid buu. He asks vegeta to hold buu off for a minute so he can recharge, but it still doesnt work, so he resorts to a spirit bomb. Later they wish his energy back so he can throw the spirit bomb back at kid buu after he succesfully deflects it (even though that should NOT be possible).

 

[Skiwan]

MrTrick jr: your argument is full of contradictions, as far as i know vegeta wasnt as strong as goku, when they go to babadi's ship, and vegeta says "Well, at least you're stronger than your son was against Cell" so he knows goku goes ssj2 from the yakon incident! When goku turns into ssj2 he has less bangs, and his eye's are narrower, thats what happens when he fights yakon....... vegeta does fight buu at ssj2 befor he fuses with goku, the reason every1 started to doubt him fighting kid buu ssj2 is because he didnt have enough power left, and he hasnt used any of his power at that time, and he tries his best against gohan buu! you can tell he's ssj2, cuz of his hair, and u say "where's the lightning" where it has already been established that there isnt always lightning when they become ssj2 in this thread..... and i've said that you cannot forget how to go a different lvl of ssj, and the power decrease from not having the majin power makes no difference, its not a question of how much power you have its about the need for power, and if you recall vegeta had enough power to become ssj2 before he ever became majin, but he just didnt know how! and he didnt have the determination to turn ssj2 until he tried to fight babidi's control! how you can say that he doesnt turn ssj2 when not majin is just stupid denial of all the facts ive pointed out, and you cant say i dismiss your points, i didnt understand what you were trying to prove.......

 

[MrTrick Jr.]

sorry, but.....LOL
you haven't understand what i was trying to prove? that's so sad....what is this thread all about??

well, i'll try to stay calm, but it's very hard for me, not to go insane of this pure ignorance i've never seen before!

Vegeta's hair is no proof for any SSJ stage!
and he says: "Well, at least you're stronger than your son was against Cell!" after Goku powered up to SSJ2!
and DBZ is no fanfiction! Akira Toriyama surely didn't want ppl to speculate about events in the series! so, when you see an SSJ2 it is clear when you see one! for Vegeta the only way to show that he's SSJ2 is lightning, since his hair always goes straight up! adn there is no lightning anywhere after he lost Majin!
and he could go SSJ2 because of babidi's control! he clearly says that in the fight with Goku! he saw Spopowitsch and Yamu had incredible power and they were just human-beings!

Goku wasn't SSJ2 against "Gohan"-Buu and so was Vegeta! there's a pattern in DBZ....and even YOU should have recognized that....

 

[Skiwan]

"and he could go SSJ2 because of babidi's control" wrong, he went ssj2 fighting against babidi's control. in the buu saga ssjVegeta was stronger befor he turned majin than ssjgohan was against cell, right? but he just didnt know how to become ssj2 right? do you follow this train of thought? when he went majin, all of his rage inside him and his fight to keep his pride turned him ssj2, but he had an extra powerup from majin, right? majin has nothing to do with what level of super saiyajin you are, right? gohan never forgot how to become an ssj2 after the fight with cell did he? so why would vegeta forget how to turn ssj2? did he have amnesia or something? and anyway you said he didnt have lightning....... he did in the manga? and thats whats caused this doubt, because sailor alea said in the manga he didnt have enough energy left to go ssj2 with his fight with kid buu.........

here's the difference:

its a lil quickly drawn, but notice the hair.......
ssj1 on the left, and ssj2 on the right............

 

[Galst Vic]

David is right man Mr.Trick stop trying to be the smart ass because David is saying the truth.

 

[Vegeta]

David, I think we have misinterruptated what SailorAlea has been trying to say. I could careless about what Trick has been saying because of his attitude but, I can understand what SailorAlea has been saying. After the upgrade from Babadi Vegeta was able to transform into a SSJ2, He could have used the ability as long as he was alive. Vegeta could care less about the power he had gained after the fight with Goku because he thought he won it. After dieing Vegeta still had the ability to go SSJ2, but when he arrived back to earth he didn't have enough ki to transform and to make it worse after battling Buu in his head, he was weakened. Which stunned his ability to go SSJ2. They are right there is hardly a difference between SSJ1 and SSJ2, with Vegeta that is. You can tell from the SSJ1 pic I posted because he was fully a SSJ1. In the Buu saga he may not be SSJ2 but he is an ascended saiyan. His power was probably abit higher than Dabura and Cell's. Overall I honestly think SailorAlea has quite a knowledge of DBZ, and his information has striked me as "Correct". I am a Vegeta lover, I am sure you all know that but Sailor for the least part is defending Vegeta's honor. If he were to say Vegeta was SSJ2 in the fight with Kidbuu then it would be kind of weird right? Well put it this way Goku at SSJ2 fought Kidbuu almost equally(even tho Kidbuu was warming up/toying around). While Vegeta fights him at SSJ2 and he's also dead which makes his body more durable. So if Vegeta was SSJ2 then he would have stood against KidBuu alot easier than Goku did at SSJ2.
Put it this way. Goku was ALOT stronger than Vegeta was in the Majin Buu saga. Goku had an equivelent of 25 yrs of training in the other world while Vegeta only trained 7 yrs on earth. If Goku had not died in the Cell Saga, He probably wouldn't level Vegeta as much as he did while training in otherworld. If Goku was still alive I'm guessing he would have only gotten to SSJ2, if he's lucky. "SSJ3 comes from the heart" or so SailorAlea calls it, which makes sense. A half-breed saiyan cannot become SSJ3, as for Vegeta. An arrogent but pride soul like Vegeta's can easily measure up to other fighters, but he will NEVER be as powerful as Goku. Goku and Vegeta are 2 totally different characters, you will never be able to compare them. That's about all the things I need to say. 1 more thing I'd like to mention, as SailorAlea says " Vegeta didn't have enough Ki to go SSJ2" that is correct, but if you watch the movies:

Movie 12 The Rebirth of Fusion, Goku and Vegeta!
Movie 13 The Past of Tapion/Dragon Fist Assault

You clearly see Vegeta was a SSJ2, check the pics I posted earlier. Vegeta had enough ki to go SSJ2 in hell.
Vegeta had enough ki to go SSJ2 on earth in the Tapion movie. (watch the film he looks exactly like he did when he fought Goku in his Majin state.)
He couldn't have possible been SSJ1 simply because he put up a better fight than Mystic Gohan did against Hildegarne.

Well that's about all I need to say.



BTW: Nice drawings David. 1 thing tho, the SSJ2 hair looks kind of weird. I know he's drawn like that at SSJ2 in a few episodes, but do you think you can draw one of him looking like this:
Majin Vegeta (Majin Buu Saga)

SSJ2 Vegeta (Tapion Movie)

 

[SailorAlea]

Thanks, Xsl.

The only things I disagree with in your post is that Vejita was SSJ2 -definitely- in the Tapion movie. He isn't shown to be one over the other. He is SSJ, but whether it's 1 or 2 is not clearly shown, though 2 is most likely.

Just as a side note-Mystic Gohan had a _lot_ more power then SSJ2 Vejita ever did.

 

[Vegeta]

Well yea I can understand that but do you agree Vegeta is a better fighter? You mentioned earlier Gohan is a 2nd to Vegeta's finesse? Only reason why I ask because Vegeta put up a better fight at SSJ2/1 whichever than Mystic Gohan did against Hildegarne in Movi 13.

 

[SailorAlea]

Well..

In general, Vejita is a superior fighter to Gohan, but I believe Mystic Gohan fights with more finesse then SSJ2 Vejita.

Also, the movies don't -REALLY- hold any water over the real series, as they don't necessarily have to include or exclude anything from the story.

They could attribute it to anything, even luck.

 

[MrTrick Jr.]

well, david, do we finally agree, that Vegeta wasn't SSJ2 against kid buu?
that was my only concern.....
btw nice drawings!
but you really can't tell Vegeta's SSJ stage just by looking at his hair! (in the well drawn episodes he always looks like your pic on the right) I believe in that lightning thing and if it isn't there, for me it's not SSJ2! a pity that almost nobody has unterstood, what i've said, because actually it makes sense and i KNOW it's right.......but maybe i just can't find the right expressions, i'm just a fu**ed up german.....
i apologize for everything that sounded rude! wasn't meant that way!
i leave everyone with his opinion now.....


i just said that, because i had a wonderful evening

 

[Skiwan]

yeah i agree, sorry if i sounded rude as well

 

[SailorAlea]

I believe Vejita was SSJ2 when fighting KidBuu, in the manga. In the manga, his energy wasn't wasted by fighting Buu inside of his own body.

I believe Vejita was SSJ1 when fighting Kidbuu, in the anime. His energy was wasted fighting Buu inside of his own body.

 

[MrTrick Jr.]

fine, i'm satisfied with this, since i only watched the anime.....

 

[Pain]

isnt the anime based on the manga, so wouldnt they just make him ssj2 in the anime to match the manga?

 

[Vegeta]

isnt the anime based on the manga, so wouldnt they just make him ssj2 in the anime to match the manga?

No manga can be slightly to massively different to the anime sometimes. Have you read Shonen Jump? Look at the YuYu Hakusho section, there's things in there that don't even happen in the anime.

 

[Skiwan]

as i sed befor ALOT of the things in the anime arent in the manga

 

[SailorAlea]

A lot of things in the manga don't happen in the anime, and some things that happen in the anime aren't in the manga.

However, the manga does provide some background info on what isn't said in the anime, which makes it a very useful read.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Thank you once again, Alea.

First of all, when Vegeta is SSJ2 (while he's Majin), the power is SEETHING off of him--he is giving it every ounce of juice he's got!! When he fights Buu he doesn't even have a particularly noteworthy aura, nevermind the insane muscle mass.

You should also take note of some front view shots of Majin Vegeta SSJ2 -- his hair is WIDER, and not always necessarily spikier. Also SSJ2 has a much paler skin tone; Vegeta's remained fairly consistent during the Buu "Minute of Desperation" fight.

To say he's SSJ2 during that battle is just nonsense. He is very clearly SSJ1. No lightning, no massive aura, no sick beams, no complete and utter destruction during the transformation...and do you honestly believe that after the violent, effort-filled SSJ2 transformation he performed WITH the Majin power boost, within 72 hours or so of that happening, with no additional training or knowledge, Vegeta somehow magically can hit SSJ2 instantly? Because when he fights Kid Buu, he doesn't even hardly transform (somebody's balls are huge, huh? lol). When he finally DOES transform, it's an instant transformation...obviously a very well-practiced one.

Gohan and Goku still had to make a minimal effort to hit SSJ2 after they've been able to do it for a long time...and you say that Vegeta perfected it in a couple of days? I doubt it.

He was SSJ1 during that fight. His hair was wavier, his skin was more close to normal colored, the seething strength just wasn't there.

And I don't really care what the manga said...as far as I'm concerned, we're talking about the show. And in the show, he wasn't SSJ2. He just couldn't have been. It's completely inconsistent.

 

[Vegeta]

To say he's SSJ2 during that battle is just nonsense. He is very clearly SSJ1. No lightning, no massive aura, no sick beams, no complete and utter destruction during the transformation...and do you honestly believe that after the violent, effort-filled SSJ2 transformation he performed WITH the Majin power boost, within 72 hours or so of that happening, with no additional training or knowledge, Vegeta somehow magically can hit SSJ2 instantly? Because when he fights Kid Buu, he doesn't even hardly transform (somebody's balls are huge, huh? lol). When he finally DOES transform, it's an instant transformation...obviously a very well-practiced one.

Yes we all know and have agreed on it that Vegeta was SSJ1 in the battle with KidBuu. Let me show you a pic of what SSJ2 really looks like, or I should say should look all of the time.

Although his hair looks VERY SSJ2 here:

But here is your typical SSJ2 Vegeta:

 

[SailorAlea]

You can't really judge based on animation style alone, but the evidence leans to Vejita being SSJ1 in the anime, and SSJ2 in the manga.