Vegeta vs. Kid Buu - SSJ or SSJ 2 ?

[MrTrick Jr.]

when they have an aura, it's there most of the time! and when Vegeta fights Kid Buu, there is no lightning at anytime! he isn't SSJ2!
and dave, you said you can't read japanese.....Sailor Alea can and he said that it's stated explicitly that Vegeta can't go SSJ2!
also Vegeta lost the extra power of Majin! so he hasn't got enough power to go SSJ2 anymore! there are more things that lead to the point that Vegeta isn't SSJ2!
everything is logical, you just have to observe and then think about it!

 

[Vegeta]

when they have an aura, it's there most of the time! and when Vegeta fights Kid Buu, there is no lightning at anytime! he isn't SSJ2!

Ok, why don't you have a heart attack. I think he's SSJ2. The majority of the vote says he's SSJ2, so why don't you just shutup. Even if he really is SSJ1, he's the strongest damn SSJ1 i've ever seen, even if he was dead, no one can take a beating like that and keep getting up. I know for a fact if SSJ1 Goten and Trunks were to fight Kid Buu they would be dead in 1 hit.

 

[Skiwan]

"also Vegeta lost the extra power of Majin! so he hasn't got enough power to go SSJ2 anymore!"

Not true, think of it this way then, if vegeta cudnt go ssj2 anymore then why didnt king yemma send picon (i cant spell it) to earth instead? because he's more powerful than ssj vegeta, because he cud kick cell's ass! and as i said, it is nothing to do with the power that you have to go any lvl of ssj, as goku said it is just the need for the power that makes it happen! it doesnt matter if vegeta is majin or not, as soon as he went ssj2 he cud do it forever afterwards!!!! and i dont think Sailor Alea is right (he may of misread or sumthing), because vegeta did LESS fighting than goku did scince they were unfused inside buu, yet goku cud go SSJ3 and there for logicaly, vegeta would of had the power to become ssj2........ so logicaly, he had lightning, he had enuf power, he knew how to go ssj2, and vegta isnt the kind of guy that goes into a fight half arsed..............

 

[MrTrick Jr.]

everything is logical, you just have to observe and then think about it!

:S
Vegeta can stand Kid Buu's attacks BECAUSE he is dead! dead ppl have much more endurance!
and it's ridiculous to compare Goten and/or Trunks to Vegeta.....really.....
it's a pity, that you haven't understood anything of DBZ....


i'm tired of trying to explain logical things to you.....i'll give it another try later....

 

[Skiwan]

vegeta actually took more of a beating when he was alive in his normal form, it was on TV today (in the uk)

BTW: did ur read my other post?

 

[Pain]

Ok, why don't you have a heart attack. I think he's SSJ2. The majority of the vote says he's SSJ2, so why don't you just shutup. Even if he really is SSJ1, he's the strongest damn SSJ1 i've ever seen, even if he was dead, no one can take a beating like that and keep getting up. I know for a fact if SSJ1 Goten and Trunks were to fight Kid Buu they would be dead in 1 hit.

did u also know the majority of people dont know as much about dbz as the minority?

so you know for a fact that a fictional character will die in 1 hit from kid buu.
but how can u possibly know that, it never happend in the storyline, the FICTIONAL storyline.
you have no way to gauge how much damage one hit from kid buu would do to the little tykes. maybe its 2 hits!! OR MAYBE ITS 3!!!
or maybe, just maybe goten and trunks wipe the floor with kid buu in their normal states, theres no way to tell.
MAYBE THEY HAVE A SUPER ULTRA SECRET HIDDEN POWER THAT NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT.
yea.. all fiction anything could happen.
goku pulled the ssj3 outa his ass so maybe if trunks and goten had to fight kid buu they would have went super toddler oozaru or something....

 

[Wangster]

Xsl>|< : your post is the right one, i just wanna say, ssj1 hair is just yello hair standing up.
ssj2 hair is way more pointy then ssj1

 

[MrTrick Jr.]

oh dear....
when Vegeta fought Buu before the fusion, he was SSJ and he didn't look different when he fought Kid Buu!

 

[Orz]

I side with MrTrick Jr. here, everything he says most of you counter with "No way, he's SSJ2 because Vegeta is cool and he'd go SSJ2 and totally beat down Kid Buu because he's SSJ2!"

The lightning is no proof at all. That lightning aura isn't always around SSJ2 Gohan or SSJ2 Goku, and Cell had that lightning aura himself when he returned from the dead. It only means that there is a lot of power in the air. It's not SSJ2 specific, it just means that there is a lot of power. SSJ in the Buu Saga would generate a lot of power as well.

There is more evidence to show he ISN'T SSJ2 than that he IS, so I have no idea the majority says 'He's SSJ2'. He's no longer Majin, and simply being angry and about to die doesn't push Vegeta into a new stage of SSJ - if it did, don't you think he'd have done it against Cell? That's Gohan's trick, not Vegeta's.

Finally, until somebody else translates the Japanese, I think it's easier to believe it says that he isn't SSJ2 than the alternative option, which is "he might have misread it because Vegeta is SSJ2 and Vegeta is so cool." How can you even be in a position to say such a thing unless you can read it? It's better to have one semi-informed opinion than one that is totally based on guesswork and Vegeta-SSJ2-coolness.

 

[eaz135]

xls>|< a long time a go the majority of people thought that the earth was flat... majority doesnt mean nethign. and of course ssj1 goten and trunks would be dead in 1 hit from kid buu, ssj3 goku was barely a match for kid buu so how can ssj1 goten or trunks even stand a chance. comparing them to vegeta is stupid.

and electricity doesnt mean ssj2. it just means alot of power. vegetto has electricity around him while he was in normal form at times and then he got ALOT of electicity zapping around him when he went ssj1 and mystic gohan had electricity when he was going mystic on kaioshins planet.

but vegeta was definantly ssj1 everything points towards it :|. and in the series ( i dunno what happenedi n the manga ) vegeta took a huge hammering before he transformed, i would be extremely supprised if he could have the power to go ssj2 after he took that huge hammering , i mean he could barely walk straight. And yous are saying he could go ssj2 when he was extremely battle damaged when he couldnt even go ssj2 when he was in 100% health when he was facing off super gohan buu.


sigh here is some more pics

SSJ1 !!!

notice how the seem of the hair seems to be going accross ways. like there are many spikes of hair pointing sideways rather than up.
SSJ2 !!!

now notice that the seem of the hair in his ssj2 form is all going upways. like every spike is pointing up and they are all very stiff and spikey.



now look at the pics on the left of this

now look at his hair as when he was on kaioshins. many of the spikes are poiting outwards and arnt very stiff and spikey. they are more dangally and bent.

 

[MrTrick Jr.]

lightning is (without long hair) an indicator for being SSJ2! no "normal" SSJ in the series has that kind of lightning a SSJ2 has....
and if Vegeta had been SSJ2, at least he would have had lightning around him ONE TIME....but he haven't had lightning around him at any time, when he's activated his aura!
and if he had gone SSJ2, there would have been at least a small power up sequence, like when goku went SSJ2 against kid buu....but there's not!

and Vegetto had lightning around him, because he WAS SSJ2 !
and if Vegeta was able to go SSJ2 against kid buu, he also would have been able to go SSJ2 against "Gohan"-Buu (right before fusing with Goku)! but he didn't...

i'd like to know, how could anybody convince you ppl, that Vegeta wasn't SSJ2!? (feel free to answer, but no ridiculous answers, plz)

 

[Vegeta]

I side with MrTrick Jr. here, everything he says most of you counter with "No way, he's SSJ2 because Vegeta is cool and he'd go SSJ2 and totally beat down Kid Buu because he's SSJ2!"

Ok I think you are taking everything the wrong way. No one said He'd beat the **** out of Kid buu. Ppl are just saying they think he was SSJ2. Ok I am not gonna state "HE WAS SSJ2!!" anymore. I "think" he was SSJ2 and that's in my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own.


EDIT: Eaz you can't just assume with those pics. He's drawn differently alot of the time. The ones near the bottom you cant tell because in the episode "Final Atonement" he didn't even really look SSJ2, his hair was drawn all weird, not that many spikes either.

 

[Orz]

Yes, everyone IS entitled to their opinion. That's why you shouldn't try to intimidate others by saying that they should go with the majority, or imply that they're somehow stupider than those who believe that Vegeta was SSJ2. Personally, I see no evidence to show that Vegeta was SSJ2 and there IS evidence showing that he is SSJ, so right now it should be fairly clear. But I have no problems with those who believe he is SSJ2.

I do have a problem with those who have problems with those who believe he isn't, however.

 

[Vegeta]

Ok end of discussion for me. He was an ascended super saiyan. Not SSJ2, but Vegeta is more than capable of taking down Cell or Dabura in his present state. That is my opinion.

he was just SSJ2 as Majin Vegeta and when he was "part of" Super Vegetto

I think I should point this out. Vegito wasn't SSJ2. He was only SSJ1. SSJ2 or higher wasnt needed atall. They could have gone SSJ3 easy if they had to. Vegito was even to Gohan Buu in his normal state.
BTW, Vegeta is SSJ2 in DragonBall GT and the Movie timeline.(Rebirth of Fusion: Goku and Vegeta! & The DragonFist Assault!) Though i'd just point that out.

 

[SailorAlea]

Koko ni..sanjou!
You just knew I'd have to show up here,
Sorry to contradict you, Orz, as we're almost friends now, but you've made a mistake.

You said..

"There's also the matter of him truly believing that he was more powerful than Trunks after the Time Chamber training, when Trunk's raw power was incredibly high. He just lacked the training and finesse to correctly use SSJ2 instead of USSJ.
Vegeta surely would have sensed Trunks' greater power if he wasn't so blinded with his own ego and new achievements."

Vejita knew what Trunks was doing, and that Trunks thought he was stronger then Vejita.

Trunks made a mistake, and continued to pump his training into pure strength, whereas Vejita balanced his training between strength and speed, as he should have.

Trunks never outclassed Vejita in any way, and in fact, if they had ever truly faced off against one another, the same thing that happened to Trunks when fighting Perfect Cell, would've happened against Vejita--Vejita was faster in his 'Super Vejita' form, then Trunks was in USSJ.

After Vejita is healed by Kururin's sensu bean, and returns to find Perfect Cell gone, and Trunks standing there sulking, he comments to him, in both the english and japanese versions, 'You were foolish to think you could beat him, silly boy.' (To that effect)

Vejita may act blind and arrogant, but he's also a very intelligent warrior, such as outbluffing Android 20. He does make mistakes, but this isn't one of them.


As for what Death Biscuit says about the animators having inconsistencies, he is definitely right. There are many instances of mistakes regarding the SSJ forms, such as in the #4 movie about the SuperNamek, they refer to Goku as being SSJ, but his hair isn't golden. He has the gold aura, but his hair is in his normal black form, and the SSJ aura noise isn't present. (I believe this movie also takes place before the end of the Frieza saga, so he couldn't have been SSJ anyways.)

 

[SailorAlea]

By the way, Vejita is never shown specifically as SSJ2 in the Tapion movie (Dragonfist assault). No lightning. No change of the hair, from normal. In fact, he's only shown in the movie for a very short time..

Your mention of GT is laughable--

Nothing in DBZ is true, or false, based on whether it's true or false in GT, because GT is animated fanfiction, nothing more.


As for people saying the lightning ISN'T a factor, is both right and wrong.

Saiya-jin who are SSJ2 don't -ALWAYS- have the lightning, but when they're powered up (as in surrounded by an aura) they -usually-have a lightning aura, if they are SSJ2.

It boils down to this:
If a Saiya-jin is SSJ, and has the lightning aura, they ARE either SSJ2, or SSJ3. (Goku and Gotenkasu, as SSJ3, had lightning occasionally, Gotenkasu's was purple, Goku's was blue)

Just because one is SSJ2, doesn't mean they HAVE to have the lightning.

For the people who say that Vejita can't go SSJ2 after losing Majin, that is false.

If you had to think of it as something along those lines, you COULD say that Vejita couldn't go SSJ2 -BEFORE- becoming Majin, so you could surmise that being Majin enabled him to access SSJ2, and he was still able to, after he was no longer Majin.

Hope this clears up something for someone.

 

[Vegeta]

Wait 1 question, you state he wasn't SSJ2 fighting Kidbuu, what about fighting Gohan Buu when he first got back from otherworld, he surely had enough Ki to go SSJ2 when he got back right?

 

[eaz135]

probably not because he diddnt go ssj2 and he knew that he wouldnt win in ssj1. even after gohan buu beat the crap outa him he still didnt go ssj2. showing that he cant go ssj2 :|.

 

[Just-a-guy]

kid buu only ever fought goku ssj3

NOT TRUE!!
I saw it yesterday, cuz here in Holland they're broadcasting the kid buu saga (AGAIN??!!) and he was fighting kid buu as ssj2 and then powered up to ssj3!

 

[Skiwan]

just a guy, you didnt read my other post then....
NOBODY seems to understand me when i sed that vegeta MUST be able to turn ssj2, otherwise king yemma would of sent Pikon (whatever his name is) to earth instead, because pikon was more powerful than cell at 100% dead (dead means more powerful right?) not to mention after that pikon trained for 7 years in other world, but King yemma said that vegeta is the most powerful warrior they had! so clearly, if vegeta cudnt go ssj2, then it wud mean he was stronger than cell at ssj1, which in my mind isnt right! all this stuff about not being able to transform ssj2 cuz he wasnt majin cannot be right because, as goku said it isnt about how much power you have, it is the need for the power that makes the transormation possible, and people forget, vegeta would be more powerful when he's dead, because he had obtained alot of damage when he fought fat buu, and recovering would make him more powerful, plus he is dead, and a dead persons body is much more powerful and durable than an alive persons body.......

he did as much fighting after being unfused from vegetto as goku, and goku went ssj3, so how cud vegeta not have the power to turn ssj2? what people are saying is not logical......

look at goten and trunks's hair when their ssj..... the style for drawing ssj hair DOES NOT CHANGE in the buu saga's, even look at goku's hair in the episode where he fights yakon, when he goes ssj he looks like he did in the cell saga, but as soon as vegeta turns ssj2 the way his hair is drawn is NOT ssj, i've drawn/seen enough pics in my time to know the difference....... any questions?