Vegeta SSJ2 before Majin?

[Deverz]

Majin is not a transformation. Its a power up. Same as Kaioken or 100% Fireza.

It also triggers his first SSJ2 transformation

I SPLIT THE THREAD TO ALLOW THE DISCUSSION OF THIS DEBATE RATHER THEN SQUASH IT IN ITS ORIGINAL THREAD

 

[Grega]

It also triggers his first SSJ2 transformation

First seen transformation. Speech indicates he may have learned it beforehand though.

 

[hleV]

the ki rings vegeta uses to keep goku in place

It also triggers his first SSJ2 transformation

Aside from Vegeta not being surprised that Goku has SSJ2, the official sources (being Daizenshuu and possibly Super Exciting Guide, all supervised by Akira Toriyama) state that both Goku and Vegeta learned SSJ2 through training.

 

[Deverz]

YOUR FACE LEARNED MANGA THROUGH TRAINING

 

[vector]

yeah usually first transformations are long ... they both had already learned it. they were just hiding it from each other until they could fight. well and Goku had ssj3 hidden too. i mean cmon .... if u say that was vegeta's first time going SSJ2 .... then u would b saying that's the first time Goku went SSJ2 as well ... but we know thats not true since he's been working on SSJ3 the whole time.

 

[macdaddymario]

I always kinda thought we were lead to assume that Vegeta found out Goku was able to go ssj2 when he was fighting Yakon, thus Vegeta allowed himself to be mind controlled to close that gap, gaining the power needed to use ssj2.. unknowing that Goku was WELL beyond ssj2.

 

[hleV]

I always kinda thought we were lead to assume that Vegeta found out Goku was able to go ssj2 when he was fighting Yakon, thus Vegeta allowed himself to be mind controlled to close that gap, gaining the power needed to use ssj2.. unknowing that Goku was WELL beyond ssj2.

WELL, YOU WERE WRONG!
Once Goku went SSJ2 against Yakon, Vegeta realized that his own SSJ2 wouldn't be enough against Goku.

 

[mutsu]

WELL, YOU WERE WRONG!
Once Goku went SSJ2 against Yakon, Vegeta realized that his own SSJ2 wouldn't be enough against Goku.

Sounds interesting and I didn't knew that. Could you pls show me your source hlev?

 

[macdaddymario]

WELL, YOU WERE WRONG!
Once Goku went SSJ2 against Yakon, Vegeta realized that his own SSJ2 wouldn't be enough against Goku.

I see no proof showing me otherwise.

 

[hleV]

Sounds interesting and I didn't knew that. Could you pls show me your source hlev?

Well, a perfect proof would be a scan of said Daizenshuu and a Japanese text which you could copy to a translator, but unfortunately I can't provide you with any of these. I know what I'm saying, though, and I doubt I ever gave a reason to doubt me when talking about Dragon Ball.

I see no proof showing me otherwise.

So we both agree that I'm correct?

In any case this is going way too off-topic. If you're really into DB, join Kanzenshuu, as it's kinda troublesome to explain things for people who are mostly only familiar with English-dubbed anime. And searching for proof in Kanzenshuu phpBB's ****ty search feature is a pain.

EDIT: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15336

 

[macdaddymario]

I always kinda thought we were lead to assume that Vegeta found out Goku was able to go ssj2 when he was fighting Yakon, thus Vegeta allowed himself to be mind controlled to close that gap, gaining the power needed to use ssj2.. unknowing that Goku was WELL beyond ssj2.

WELL, YOU WERE WRONG!
Once Goku went SSJ2 against Yakon, Vegeta realized that his own SSJ2 wouldn't be enough against Goku.

Don't read what you want to read. Read what is really there. I see no proof showing me that what you said was correct. And don't pull that english dub line. I've read the manga as well. It is not stated that Vegeta felt his own ssj2 wasn't strong enough. Just like it is not stated what I said. It's open to interpretation.

 

[Shadi]

Umm ... I believe Goku was the first to fight Yakon? Been pretty long since I read the manga but... he just kept going super saiyan while that dude was consuming immense amount of light and energy leading to his own death.. Vegeta didn't care about that? He did do it to close the gap and fight Goku, which by the way lead to the resurrection of fat buu? I think Vegeta could finish Yakon easily tbh..

 

[macdaddymario]

That's not what we are talking about Shadi. During the fight with Yakon, Vegeta is able to get a sense for the depths of Goku's power, and he realized that he (Vegeta) wasn't as close to Goku in strength as he had thought. The debate is to if Vegeta could go ssj2 at that point. As it's not stated or shown anywhere.

 

[hleV]

Do we really have to continue this DB discussion?

Don't read what you want to read. Read what is really there. I see no proof showing me that what you said was correct. And don't pull that english dub line. I've read the manga as well. It is not stated that Vegeta felt his own ssj2 wasn't strong enough. Just like it is not stated what I said. It's open to interpretation.

You've quoted me and added "I see nothing to prove otherwise", meaning that you see nothing which would deny what I said. Anyway, you can either get the guidebook and see for yourself, or just keep interpreting it your own way (which is not the way to go, TBH). I just corrected you, but if you feel like your opinion is correct only because I didn't bring any proof (I told you where to look for it, though), then it's fine with me. At least I know for sure that you're wrong.

Umm ... I believe Goku was the first to fight Yakon?

Goku was the only one to fight Yakon.

Been pretty long since I read the manga but... he just kept going super saiyan while that dude was consuming immense amount of light and energy leading to his own death..

Goku went SSJ - Yakon sucked it in - Goku went SSJ again - Yakon tried to suck it in - Goku went SSJ2 - Yakon blow up - Vegeta commented that Goku had now surpassed the SSJ wall as well.

 

[macdaddymario]

You corrected me with another fans guess. It clearly states in that link "It says these pages are "based on training data supervised by Toriyama", though just exactly what this means is unclear" showing that, you have not corrected anything. All you have done is shown another persons interpretation of what happened.

 

[hleV]

Again, I was just correcting you because I believe I know better than you. I don't mind if you choose to stick with your opinion or go by what's official. I really don't.

Herms (which was quoted in the thread) translates DB stuff directly from Japanese. The simpliest way to check if he's reliable would be to go see one of his many guides and compare his translations to someone else's you believe is reliable. So until you do that and prove that I'm wrong about something, let's just get back on topic.

 

[Deverz]

Enjoy your thread guys, Keep it civil please

 

[macdaddymario]

Civil?!?! HELL NAW! We is gunna burn this motha' down!!

 

[IFlip92]

Im of the opinion that Majin is a transformation too and not just a power up. If you think about it technically, Vegeta's alignment is changed from Good (well...anti-hero really) to Evil, or was supposed to anyway but Vegeta is too strong mentally to be controlled so he ended up sacrificing himself. A transformation doesnt necessarily imply a change of the xterior.

To add to the argument, the amount of power Majin gave Vegeta would also be a good justification as to why it should be added in ESF Final, because compared to Kaioken which is overshadowed by SSJ1 therefore rendered useless in a short time in the game, Majin would be permanent and a last transformation. This can also close the gap between SSJ3 Goku and Vegeta and it would also be easy to implement as you could use the same xact model and animations for Majin, just put that fancy M on his head. His signature attacks are the only thing that would be an argument to not putting him in the game.

 

[mutsu]

Well, a perfect proof would be a scan of said Daizenshuu and a Japanese text which you could copy to a translator, but unfortunately I can't provide you with any of these. I know what I'm saying, though, and I doubt I ever gave a reason to doubt me when talking about Dragon Ball.


So we both agree that I'm correct?

In any case this is going way too off-topic. If you're really into DB, join Kanzenshuu, as it's kinda troublesome to explain things for people who are mostly only familiar with English-dubbed anime. And searching for proof in Kanzenshuu phpBB's ****ty search feature is a pain.

EDIT: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15336

That's everything what I could found:

http://i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/452/dragon-ball-71644.jpg

and i can't find sth else (that he realise his ss2 is not enough against goku). In the german dbz he said the same.