Trunks: Was Ussj the end?

[Herms]

This was in a convo with DT:

Herms says:
When Trunks and Cell are talking they say THIS meaning the pumped up mussles that trunks has at the moment

~Dark Trunks~ says:
I see

Herms says:
Well it makes sence beause Trunks says Vegeta could do THIS transformation but he knew what whould happen.
no way Vegeta was as strong as Trunks or he whould have used Ussj not just Sssj

Herms says:
Because everyone knows Ussj is a speed increase

Herms says:
It's funny because vegeta sucks

~Dark Trunks~ says:
Yea definately


So this means I have Proof I bet even Raven whould back me up and he contradics everything I say.

 

[X-boy]

It's Offtopic, but it's kinda funny.

 

[Herms]

what? (I have to sign off now so ill answer this tomorrow)

 

[X-boy]

Bye see you tomorrow.

 

[Grega]

Time for another 2 cents from me ^^

How about this i read an interwiew with the maker of Dragonball. And in that interwiew he clearly stated that toe original stages are SSJ, SSJ2 and so on.

But he also said that in the Cell part of DBZ there are certain powerups wich have no names. Ofcourse the fans started the name Ultra Super Saya-jin or Super SSJ (that didnt sound to good thats why they called it USSJ) based on Vegeta calling himself Super Vegeta. Wich was nothing more than what he achieved throo training that made him strong (but Vegeta asumed he is now the strongest in the universe and called himself super).

Herms if what you are saying is true then anwser this if its a transformation and not a powerboost how come Goku and Gohan were a lot stronger in normal SSJ form that Trunks and Vegeta in the "USSJ" forms.

Basicly all that Gohan and Goku trained was to get faster and stronger. In the fight against Cell the powerd up to the minimum so it was barely wisable. Unlike SSJ2 the power increased far past Cells.

 

[Ravendust]

Has it ever occured that powerups and transformations are the same thing?

Transformation - Changing of the physical form to increase power.
Power up - Increases power.

 

[Grega]

Yes but by a transformation your power is multiplied by a powerup its just added

 

[X-boy]

For Ravendust I'll try to make it more simple as possible, Pumping their muscles or Powering Up is not a Saiyan Transformation because most of the DBZ Characters that is not Saiyan has been able to do it.

It's more of a Technique like Kame Hame Ha. Gohan, Klylin and others has been able to do it. You cannot call it Ultra Super Saiyan(USSJ) Transformation if some Human Android or Nemic people has done it. It's just Fan names.

And I am not really against Dark Trunks(Hyuga) I am just saying that it's not a Transformation it's just a Power Up. And I still want it in the game because Trunks use it in battle and it will balance him in the game and that's why I suggested in Hyuga's thread that there must be no too much model change because it will cause lag.

 

[Herms]

Herms if what you are saying is true then anwser this if its a transformation and not a powerboost how come Goku and Gohan were a lot stronger in normal SSJ form that Trunks and Vegeta in the "USSJ" forms.

I'd be happy to answer your question Grega:

Through my research I've come to the conclusion that what Goku and Gohan did was get to a perfect tranz (very ovious) so basicly they get more for there money.
Im sure everyone know's that being a super saiya-jin requires enegry but Goku and Gohan trained so it didn't.
So in turn they are able to put more power into the fight and raise there PL higher after powering up. But you should know (it was stated in both english and japanese versions that trunks is stronger then Perfect Cell just not as fast)

As to your comments about the Ussj not being a "REAL" Trans your right it's a hybred Tranz like Ssj expanded thats why they call it "Ultra Powered"
It's just Ussj and Sssj for short

And they do have names in the Japanese version it actually says Trunks has "Ultra Power"

 

[SupaFighta]

Goku knew that transforming to a Super Saiyan takes a lot of energy. So Goku decided that him and Gohan stay Super Saiyan even when they do not train so that it feels natural to be a Super Saiyan. Meaning it feels like they've been a Super Saiyan all their life. Once they got used to it, they were able to power up while transformed, Vegeta even explained it in episode 154 when Goku and Gohan went to Korrins. In which Goku powered up (while a Super Saiyan) so Korrin can see if he matches Cell.

Tien: Ok when Goku and Gohan came out of the chamber they were Super Saiyan right? And yet they seem so... so different... Don't you think so Piccolo?

Piccolo: From what I've seen I think their still Super Saiyans. But it appears they learned how to stay powered up in their daily lives without creating a strain on their energy supply.

Trunks: That means... they can transform into a more powerful body when they fight.

Vegeta: Your missing the point. It's not about powering up. The point is they won't have to power up when they fight. They can use all the energy it would take to transform to increase their stamina. And then only go higher if they need to. Darn It's soo ingenious.

Trunks: How come I didn't see that. I wasted all my energy because I transformed too early into a high power level. And that's the reason why I wasn't able to beat Cell... Why was I soo stupid?

 

[Herms]

Isn't that what I said?

 

[Spunky Man]

I'm not exactly sure if this has anything to do with this topic, or if indeed this is a true fact. I was watching the ep where Gohan beats Cell, or somewhere around that time, when Trunks gets his arse kicked, and gets a hole blown through him. Anyway, I remember Vegeta going absolutely mad with rage at seeing his son being tossed aside like no more than a dog trying to hump his leg. Vegeta goes CRAZY and starts blasting him with all his strength, and I think that in his anger, he achieved SSJ2 for a second. I'm only saying this based on how much energy he appeared to have used. I doubt this is true, but I posted it to entertain you all.

 

[Herms]

No he wasn't Ssj2 he just got in a lucky shot that was unexpected by Cell.

Kinda like the Ussj speed increase that cell wasn't expecting.

 

[Spunky Man]

USSJ doesnt give a speed increase. When Vegeta became "Super Vegeta", he merely powered himself up dramatically in an attempt to impress and frighten Cell. He didnt actually become USSJ, just got a hell of a lot stronger.

DOUBLE EDIT: Trunks was an example of USSJ, he was slow and couldnt land a single blow on Cell. Goku and Vegeta saw the flaw of speed decrease in USSJ, thus they didnt use it. Trunks didnt see it, and thus he got whomped.

 

[SupaFighta]

USSJ doesnt give a speed increase. When Vegeta became "Super Vegeta", he merely powered himself up dramatically in an attempt to impress and frighten Cell. He didnt actually become USSJ, just got a hell of a lot stronger.

DOUBLE EDIT: Trunks was an example of USSJ, he was slow and couldnt land a single blow on Cell. Goku and Vegeta saw the flaw of speed decrease in USSJ, thus they didnt use it. Trunks didnt see it, and thus he got whomped.

Correct. Throughout the whole time period of "USSJ" none of the Characters in Dragon Ball Z ever stated that "USSJ" has a speed increase. Only a power increase has been stated along with decrease in speed.

When Cell and Vegeta were fighting as Vegeta was "USSJ"; Cell wasn't very powerful or fast compared to when he achieved his final form. Vegeta could've beaten Cell without "going USSJ". Vegeta let his pride take over once again.

 

[Ravendust]

Yes but by a transformation your power is multiplied by a powerup its just added

There is absolutley no way you can clarify that. It would appear to me that you made up that claim.

 

[wheres_]

I concur to your logic Mr.Ravendust.

 

[Grega]

There is absolutley no way you can clarify that. It would appear to me that you made up that claim.

I did. You are right there is no point. But i took that from knowing that when Vegeta powerd up his power went up but not as dramaticly as when Gohan went SSJ2. Gohan in SSJ didnt stand a chance against Cell but in SSJ2 he kicked his ass. Vegeta SSJ had a small chance against imperfect Cell and USSJ Vegeta took Imperfect Cell apart

So we have:
Transformation (big gain)
powerup (small gain)

 

[~Dark Trunks~]

listen i dont wanna start this **** all over again but look u all should kno that they are all transformations through the whole dame perfect cell saga they kept sayin transformation transformation transformation. they are not gonna say transformation every damn time unless it is one.

they are all fightin at a level higher higher then a super saiyan. they have ascended past a regular super saiyan which in turn is a transformation. regardless if u wanna call it bulkin up his muscles that is considered a transformation because he is changing his physical form.

now about ussj/super and ussj 2/ussj bein slow let me try to explain. in the form vegeta went to he became stronger and faster. u should realize this because no regular super saiyan could beat normal form cell or keep up wit him for that matter simply because they couldnt even touch the androids at a regular super saiyan.

cell absorbed 17 thus makin him faster and stronger. wen vegeta transed he was faster and stronger then imperfect cell with 17 absorbed into his being he had cell on the run the whole time an none of his attacks even phased him.

trunks ascended one level higher but wut alot of u are failing to realize is in that form his power and speed increased as well he was whippin cells ass until he started lettin cell hit him so krillin could take vegeta away. after that then he started pumpin up his muscles more for the power increase.

if he wanted he coulda continued to fight cell in the form he was in b4 he started pumpin up his muscles. but cell edged him on to powerup more. and of course we all kno he gets slo and gets taken advantage of.

they are transformations damn jus face it. like i said b4 if u dont consider these transformations then answer me this why do u consider gohans a trans but not trunks and vegetas? i would like some examples too. good ones at that

 

[X-boy]

I will explain it again as simple as possible,

Saiyans has only 4 Stages of Transformation it's SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3 and SSJ4.

Most of them has been able to do the pumping muscles(Power Up) thing. The only reason Trunks became more powerful using that Technique is because he is a Saiyan, and we all know that Saiyan People are very strong, Like when Gokou used it he too became more powerful.

And about the regular Super Saiyans cannot beat the Normal Form Cell, If you're really paying attention about the Story you should know that Cell came from the Future that's why he's so powerful and if Trunks haven't warn them then they all should be dead by now. For example imagine Majin Buu travelling back to time to the Cell Saga then the Saiyans will really be outmatched and they will have to train again to be more powerful.

And again USSJ is just some Fan names to define the Power Up. Like when Vegeta is called super, it's because of his ego that's why he call himself super because he knows he can beat Cell(second form), but did he ever call himself super again when Perfect Cell beat the hell out of him. And Trunks said that why is he so stupid that he did'nt realize it.