The -whoever- versus -whatever- thread...

[Vegeta]

i'd sad kuura...becuz he said he can able defeat frieza's full power with just one arm(in final form)...... but goku had so much trouble to defeat frieza....... guess the answer is too obvious...kuura win.

Aye. I'm pretty confident Cooler would have this one. But hey, this is Goku right?

 

[Vegeta]

When that wasn't the argument at all.

It was my argument, as I stated before. Usually when I see a 'VS' title thread made by Bunker I only assume it's related to a one on one battle. Just to clear it up, Gohan's SS strength made no difference in his battle with Cell regarding the 'fighting back' aspect, though I do understand that without having reached 'Perfect SS' he may not have been able to go SS2, and as most of you fans saw during the Cell Sagas, all of the transformations weren't solely about strength, but trading power in exchange for speed. (Perfect SS, and visa versa: 'USS2'). Forgive me, I don't expect you to understand what I'm talking about, I deal with this exact argument all the time, and admitting Gohan was stronger was one thing, but I'd have to place my beliefs on the table, regardless of the obvious debate.

 

[uncover bunker]

I'm sorry but if you have played Tenkaichi everyone knows that Freiza beats Cooler.

tenkaichi is piese of crap..... it never follow the real story line... frieza 100% can beat ssj4 goku like ****(in tourment mode he can take vegeta and goku in one time O_O)... i dont surprise that cooler defeated by frieza.....becuz frieza is too powerful in that game

 

[KidMan]

I think it's based on the anime sweety, not some game
*pets Kidboy17*

*purrs like a walrus*
Umm the Game is exactly like the anime. Everything that happend in the game, happend in the show. 100% true!

 

[Optimus Prime]

I could have sworn Sauza was tequila...

 

[|Overlord|]

i'd remind u guys that perfect cell's goal " not to believe the power!! speed is everything!!" trunks is stupid then vegeta.

trunks's ussj2 cant match vegeta....simple, becuz u cant hit vegeta!! trunks sacrifice his speed to reach more power....i don't see any point that trunks can win..

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doesnt transformation takes entire episode?

I have a different outlook on this altogether. When trunks first started the fight with 3rd form cell, as a ussj2 he was able to match cell pretty well. Vegeta was taken by suprise by third form cell & Vegeta's strongest kick as ussj1 was nothing to third form cell. Trunks only screwed up with ussj2 when he started powering up to much and losing speed, & when Cell realised this he started to outclass Trunks in speed.

 

[Vegeta]

I have a different outlook on this altogether. When trunks first started the fight with 3rd form cell, as a ussj2 he was able to match cell pretty well.

He took Cell by surprise during the first few minutes of the battle--for some reason his speed seemed to have increased after powering up to USS2, but don't be deceived by the appearance, Cell only caught on shortly after that Trunks' speed was actually far worse. USS2's obvious flaws were picked up by Goku & Vegeta; Vegeta training and pumping up to USS was good enough for him I suppose, but he didn't completely disregard its disadvantages, and so he trained in the USS form & didn't progress any further passed it, and Goku, who actually picked up on both form's flaws simultaneously, formulated an entirely new strategy to gain power; train as an ordinary Super Saiyan without descending. Miraculously this kind of stuff always works for the heroes. In any case, Trunks was naive. I blame Vegeta for this.

Forgive me, I believe Trunks' first burst of strength came with the label 'USS2', and then he just kept adding fuel to the fire by pumping up his muscles even more without a second thought. I used to think that'd definitely work in a boxing or wrestling match. But this is not a wrestling match, it's Dragon Ball Z, and there's no excuse for that. Even Krillin could've figured out something like that.

For some odd reason, after two Time Chamber visits, Vegeta wasn't able to figure out how to ascend to Goku's level ("Perfect SS"), nor was Trunks. Don't ask me why, Toriyama had to keep the tension going, I suppose.

Vegeta was taken by suprise by third form cell & Vegeta's strongest kick as ussj1 was nothing to third form cell.

Trunks only screwed up with ussj2 when he started powering up to much and losing speed, & when Cell realised this he started to outclass Trunks in speed.

^Null.
USS1 & USS2 are two completely different forms.

I just thought I'd point this out to anyone who's reading, really now, with all seriousness, don't ever be fooled by an animation's inconsistencies, if you're having a hard time understanding characters, powerlevels, skills & whatnot, then read the manga and use your imagination for anything else. I'd prefer not having to read exaggerated remarks from delusional fanboys. =d

 

[Vegeta]

Umm the Game is exactly like the anime. Everything that happend in the game, happend in the show. 100% true!

If that ever happened, it either ended in a draw, or it wasn't to the death, obviously, simply because we never saw it. Not in 291 episodes or 13 movies.

 

[uncover bunker]

for that case, goku was attemp to turn ussj3......he was talk about ussj3... ussj2 is much increase in power but speed still in ussj's level. in ussj3, the power will be raise to the limitbut the speed would be sacrifice. so he would try not to go ussj level(beside that ussj form would cost a lot of body energy.)

there's ussj stage:

ussj: much increase in power and plus the extra speed.
ussj2: more power and muscular in body but speed no increase
ussj3: ur body would turn into the hyper muscular but speed much decrease.

i dont know which form trunks used to fight cell......but in the final round he did turn to the last form.

 

[uncover bunker]

there's the powerlevel during the namek battle:

frieza1: 200,000(he was bluff all the time)
frieza2: 530,000
frieza3: 830,000
frieza4: 2,000,000 (25%)
frieza4: 4,000,000 (50%)
frieza4: 8,000,000 (100%)
frieza4: 5,000,000 (wound)
frieza: 500,000 (cyborg)
king cold: 910,000
cold's soldier:100~500
goku: 200,000
2,000,000(kaioken 10X)
4,000,000(kaioken 20X)
gokussj: 8,000,000(before power up)
gokussj:11,500,000
gokussj:15,000,000(movie5)
gokussj: 20,000,000(movie6)
vegeta: 120,000(after killed jeese)
vegeta: 300,000(after injure by krillin)
vegeta: 15,000,000(movie 6)
vegeta: 16,000,000(ssj, fight android 19)
trunks: 3,000,000(ssj, in future)
trunks: 8,000,000(ssj, in early android saga& frieza arrival)
trunks: 11,000,000(ssj, after 3 yrs later)
gohan: 15,000,000(ssj, in future)
koola1: 5,000,000
koola2: 13,000,000
koola: 22,000,000 (matel form)
nail: 25,000
nail: 40,000(power up)
piccolo: 30,000(before fuse with nail)
piccolo: 550,000(with training cloth)
piccolo: 800,000
android 17: 12,000,000(future)
android 18: 11,900,000(future)
android 17: 22,000,000
android 18: 21,000,000

i'd said koola would destroy goku...

 

[Ravendust]

Unless you're going to post official powerlevels and their source, you may as well not bother. Those numbers mean nothing.

 

[uncover bunker]

It was my argument, as I stated before. Usually when I see a 'VS' title thread made by Bunker I only assume it's related to a one on one battle. Just to clear it up, Gohan's SS strength made no difference in his battle with Cell regarding the 'fighting back' aspect, though I do understand that without having reached 'Perfect SS' he may not have been able to go SS2, and as most of you fans saw during the Cell Sagas, all of the transformations weren't solely about strength, but trading power in exchange for speed. (Perfect SS, and visa versa: 'USS2'). Forgive me, I don't expect you to understand what I'm talking about, I deal with this exact argument all the time, and admitting Gohan was stronger was one thing, but I'd have to place my beliefs on the table, regardless of the obvious debate.

my thread was talk about who's the stronger, especially powerlevel. than is melee skill. only in bean struggle that goku would totally outmatch(power). for speed, gohan can easily dodge any cell's attack but goku cant(speed). in melee and battle experiense, goku more beyond then gohan, that's the only trump card that goku used to fight cell(since he get beaten all the time...), but in gohan's case, gohan got beaten by cell becuz he refuse to fight back...

than the proof is obvious, goku tried his best to fight cell, and gohan only dodge and run......i'd said gohan is the stronger(he can dodge...until cell attack by surprising).

 

[uncover bunker]

Unless you're going to post official powerlevels and their source, you may as well not bother. Those numbers mean nothing.

u mean the link?

 

[Ravendust]

There is no 'USSJ3', also 'USSJ' doesn't increase speed.

The first stage of 'USSJ' ('Super Vegeta') increases strength and decreases speed a bit. The second stage 'USSJ-2' (Trunks vs. Perfect Cell) increases strength and decreases speed a lot.

However, both Vegeta and Trunks used 'USSJ' after training for a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, their speeds were so much higher that the small loss caused by USSJ wasn't such a big deal.

 

[Ravendust]

There is no 'USSJ3', also 'USSJ' doesn't increase speed.

The first stage of 'USSJ' ('Super Vegeta') increases strength and decreases speed a bit. The second stage 'USSJ-2' (Trunks vs. Perfect Cell) increases strength and decreases speed a lot.

However, both Vegeta and Trunks used 'USSJ' after training for a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, their speeds were so much higher that the small loss caused by USSJ wasn't such a big deal.

 

[uncover bunker]

There is no 'USSJ3', also 'USSJ' doesn't increase speed.

The first stage of 'USSJ' ('Super Vegeta') increases strength and decreases speed a bit. The second stage 'USSJ-2' (Trunks vs. Perfect Cell) increases strength and decreases speed a lot.

However, both Vegeta and Trunks used 'USSJ' after training for a year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, their speeds were so much higher that the small loss caused by USSJ wasn't such a big deal.

dude....that was in tv-series....he looks like brolly.......

 

[Ravendust]

Broly was never in the TV series...

USSJ/2 = Muscles swell, hair turns blonde, eyes turn turquoise, aura turns gold, increase in power, decrease in speed.
Legendary = Muscle swell, skeletal structure grows (approx 2 or 3-foot size gain), eyes lose their pupils, hair turns lime-green and gold, power increases dramatically, speed increases, power constantly increases over time, body gets increasingly unstable over time, aura turns lime-green.

It's not the same.

 

[Vegeta]

u mean the link?

Nothing about those powerlevels are official, even if your source says they are. They are 100% assumption because Toriyama stopped releasing character powerlevels after the Namek saga.

 

[Ravendust]

Correct, with the exception of Trunks' reading of 'five' (Frieza's squad member with scouter) when he was suppressing power. Toriyama stopped with the powerlevels because they had too much dominance over a fight situation - and with the Z fighters being able to raise and lower their powerlevels at will, they didn't really have a lot of use, as the number could change at any moment. Even the Daizenshuu, the 'official' source, contains mistakes and can't be taken as truth.

Manga > All. It's fine if you want to work out and guess powerlevels, but don't use them in an arguement.

 

[Kasey]

tenkaichi is piese of crap..... it never follow the real story line... frieza 100% can beat ssj4 goku like ****(in tourment mode he can take vegeta and goku in one time O_O)... i dont surprise that cooler defeated by frieza.....becuz frieza is too powerful in that game

er... That's so the game is balanced like ESF and not "because im SS4 Goku I get to beat you (kid gohan) with one punch11!!!!ONE!!!!!" SSGoku didn't have too much trouble beating frieza on namek. In the end Goku had way more power than frieza he was just ****ing with him for most of the time. I think Goku from namek would beat cooler because cooler went to namek at least three years after the first saga on namek so he was probably as weak as frieza at the time that Goku beat frieza. Otherwise Cooler would have shown up sooner.