Take THAT Music Industry!

[Nuttzy]

like i said it only hurts the band if downloading the mp3 stopped you from buying the album in the first place,

most of the mp3s ive "acquired", are from bands that i wouldnt have purhased the album for. By downloading the song i dont hurt the band, in the fact that they wouldnt have gotten any money from me for the album sale regardless.

 

[Maistro]

Quit frankly i could care less, they make millions of dollars for just holding a mic and sing while people BUILD homes with their own hands and work their ass of way harder than RECORDING a song and they get payed way less,thing is well-known artist make way to much money as it is and they shoulnd start crying over some cd's now, see its a pain for starting artist i agree, but i never bought a single CD in my life and i can sleep like a rock at night

 

[Devion]

You're not paying for a piece of plastic with a lyric book and a case, you're paying for songs and the work that was put into making those songs. Just because someone's rich doesn't give you the right to steal from them. Is jealousy the issue here? Are you envious that the record label has more money than you? And where do you get off saying "they" don't do anything? They're the ones with millions of dollars, not you. Obviously, "they" did SOMETHING. Look at you. You must not do very much if you can't afford 15 euros. Of course, you really don't have to pay 15 euros. Like Majin_You said, their are plenty of sites where you could buy single songs legitimately. I think the problem isn't the price of the CD, it's just that you simply don't want to pay.

For buying mp3 you need a credit card, something which isnt regular in Europe, Netherlands. >_>

And yes I'm also buying the books included, thats the only reason why I buy an album, because I want the orginal CD of the band I like.

And 15 euro is not much?
Go wash your mouth.
I earn mininum wage atm, 2,62 a hour.
I need to work 6 hours, or one whole working day for 1 lousy CD.

You see it from the wrong side, they are asking way too much for CDs, especially for people who dont have a daddy and a mommy who pays everything for him.

most places that i go when i need photocopies such as the ones you speak of (the libraries round here) charge per page, and that money goes to some sort of royalties thing...

but since your up for that kinda discussion opti, why is it more right for you to steal music, than it is for you to steal food? if anything, you actually need food more. yet your more willing to pay for it... why?

Because they dont ask retarded prices for their products, you can decide which supermarket you wanna go, etc.

You comparing apples with pears.

 

[Jesus]

dude, ive been working since i was 13, money isnt in question... if you dont pay for something, it has no value to you, and if it has no value, you dont need it. simple as that.

and so you know, your 15 euro's is only half the price we pay for cd's here, so stop *****ing, europe has the lowest prices for just about anything, whereas england has the highest >_>.

and actually, they arent asking that much for cd's at all, considdering they dont just have to pay that $1 per cd, they actually have to pay all the people that work in the production facilities, they need the machinery, tech support, maintainence etc.

you can purchase mp3's with a debit card, something which is common among any netherlander over 16.

the fact is, you just dont WANT to pay. which is wrong, and i hold it against you as a personal issue, because thats what it is to me.

people like you took money from me >_> and i find that unacceptable. and while i cant physically do anything about it. i still hate you for it.

 

[Devion]

dude, ive been working since i was 13, money isnt in question... if you dont pay for something, it has no value to you, and if it has no value, you dont need it. simple as that.

and so you know, your 15 euro's is only half the price we pay for cd's here, so stop *****ing, europe has the lowest prices for just about anything, whereas england has the highest >_>.

and actually, they arent asking that much for cd's at all, considdering they dont just have to pay that $1 per cd, they actually have to pay all the people that work in the production facilities, they need the machinery, tech support, maintainence etc.

you can purchase mp3's with a debit card, something which is common among any netherlander over 16.

the fact is, you just dont WANT to pay. which is wrong, and i hold it against you as a personal issue, because thats what it is to me.

people like you took money from me >_> and i find that unacceptable. and while i cant physically do anything about it. i still hate you for it.

Hate me all you want.

Your life story isnt a excuse for making CDs that expensive, also you cant work in Holland unless you are fithteen.(Unless you do papers, which even pays worse)

The machinery isnt that expensive to burn cds, the people that sell it, only need to sell like 5 cds a hour and then they already break even incost of maintence, loan etc.

And yes I dont want to pay, what you going to do about it, I sleep perfectly fine.

Maybe I would buy your album if you made 15 good songs instead of 2.

Also you cant buy with a debit card online, unless the bank allows it or you asked for it.(And I cant because I have a save account which you cant spent more then 50 euro a week and cant pay online)

And last but not least, in Holland we pay for each writeable CD 10% extra because of lost to illegal burning/ripping.

And that 10% goes to label companies, so they are whining about nothing.(Everyone pays 10%, no matter what you do with the CD)

EDIT: About whining part http://www.tweakers.net/nieuws/37642 for dutch people, also read comments.

 

[Ravendust]

For buying mp3 you need a credit card, something which isnt regular in Europe, Netherlands. >_>

No...you need a bank card, which you get with most bank accounts in the UK (in Europe :O!!!) nowdays. I got a Solo card at the age of 14 which i've used to buy off the net many a time.

Are you sure 2.62 Euro is the minimum wage? The minimum wage is £3.60 last time I checked, and due to inflation it's probably risen. £3.60 is like 5 Euro. 2.62E is £1.75 :shocked:

 

[Devion]

No...you need a bank card, which you get with most bank accounts in the UK (in Europe :O!!!) nowdays. I got a Solo card at the age of 14 which i've used to buy off the net many a time.

Are you sure 2.62 Euro is the minimum wage? The minimum wage is £3.60 last time I checked, and due to inflation it's probably risen. £3.60 is like 5 Euro. 2.62E is £1.75 :shocked:

http://www.svb.nl/nl/regelingen/pgb/minimumlonen/index.jsp

So mine mininum wage is now 3,03 Euro.

That means I have to work 5 hours for a CD.

And your "UK (in Europe :O!!!)", you said it right, UK is in Europe, but its UK, not Holland -_-

 

[Half-Unit]

Quit frankly i could care less, they make millions of dollars for just holding a mic and sing while people BUILD homes with their own hands and work their ass of way harder than RECORDING a song and they get payed way less,thing is well-known artist make way to much money as it is and they shoulnd start crying over some cd's now, see its a pain for starting artist i agree, but i never bought a single CD in my life and i can sleep like a rock at night

Carpenters and laborers may work harder, but they also don't entertain a mass audience of three million+ people.

And 15 euro is not much?
Go wash your mouth.
I earn mininum wage atm, [3.03] a hour.
I need to work [5] hours, or one whole working day for 1 lousy CD.

You see it from the wrong side, they are asking way too much for CDs, especially for people who dont have a daddy and a mommy who pays everything for him.

If you're getting paid 3.03 EUR an hour, it's time for a new job. For our friends in the US, that's 3.67 USD, and for the folks in the UK, 2.03 GBP. Minimum wage is about $6.25 in the US.

And I take personal offence to that. What, you think because I can afford $15 that I've had everything handed to me? Don't talk about things you don't know.

The bottom line is that you're stealing. It doesn't matter how pretty a face you put on it, how pitiful your salary is, or whatever ridiculous excuse you have for justifying yourself. I mean, I can understand downloading a certain classical piece because a CD doesn't even exist for it, or a song from a game you own that has no OST avalible, but have some decency.

 

[Phatslugga]

Guys, this argument isn't going anywhere, and I can feel it slipping to the dark side. It might be best to agree to disagree, you all have your opinions, and I don't see any of you budging. I'm watching the thread, beware o_o .

 

[Devion]

If you're getting paid 3.03 EUR an hour, it's time for a new job. For our friends in the US, that's 3.67 USD, and for the folks in the UK, 2.03 GBP. Minimum wage is about $6.25 in the US.

And I take personal offence to that. What, you think because I can afford $15 that I've had everything handed to me? Don't talk about things you don't know.

The bottom line is that you're stealing. It doesn't matter how pretty a face you put on it, how pitiful your salary is, or whatever ridiculous excuse you have for justifying yourself. I mean, I can understand downloading a certain classical piece because a CD doesn't even exist for it, or a song from a game you own that has no OST avalible, but have some decency.

They are almost no jobs who pay more then mininium wage, the ones that do, are already taken.... :tired:

No its not justified, to artifically keep the price up.(Have some decency, YEAH RIGHT)

And if you can spend 15 euro like that, something is given to you, let it be a good job or wealthy parents.... :S

And the funny thing is, I aint stealing, downloading music here is legal so as I said before ;x (Aslong as you dont share it)

To the bold part, thats the US Einstein.(Which doesnt help me jack**** ;/)

EDIT: To the story of labourers and carpenters, they pay with there health.

I mean have ever saw someone retire without health problems because of there work?(Like my dad and his back >_>)

Also labourers and carpenters work more then 50% of their life, just to keep food on the table.

Record company director, just sit and see how the money flowes in of things they havent done.

Entertaining 3 million or 2 people shouldnt make a difference, because you are still doing the same thing, ENTERTAINING.(But there salary is more justified since they are doing something)

 

[Half-Unit]

Well actually it IS justified to keep the price up because people like you who steal music.

And if you can spend 15 euro like that, something is given to you, let it be a good job or wealthy parents....

That's not what you initially said. You implied that I didn't even have a job and that everything was handed to me. Well, your wrong. I do have a job and that wasn't handed to me either; I earned it.

Just because the government lets you download doesn't mean it's not stealing. Just because the government lets you drink alcohol doesn't mean it doesn't kill brain cells.

I put the minimum wage in the US just to show how crappy your job is, not in an attempt to help you.

And don't act like laborers and carpenters don't make a good living. Min wage for a carpenter is about $32.00, and $16.00 for a laborer.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Just because the govenment lets you download doesn't mean it's not stealing.

Stealing implies an illegal act. If the government allows the downloading of mp3's, it's not stealing.

I'm going to repeat something that's been repeated again and again in this thread. Artists don't lose money by me downloading, because it's money I wouldn't have spent in the first place.. How can they be losing out on something they were never going to get. I used to never buy CD's before the p2p craze exploded. I just listened to the radio.

 

[Devion]

Well actually it IS justified to keep the price up because people like you who steal music.



That's not what you initially said. You implied that I didn't even have a job and that everything was handed to me. Well, your wrong. I do have a job and that wasn't handed to me either; I earned it.

Just because the government lets you download doesn't mean it's not stealing. Just because the government lets you drink alcohol doesn't mean it doesn't kill brain cells.

I put the minimum wage in the US just to show how crappy your job is, not in an attempt to help you.

And don't act like laborers and carpenters don't make a good living. Min wage for a carpenter is about $32.00, and $16.00 for a laborer.

Are you slow?

The US mininium wage doesnt say jack****, maybe other products are way cheaper in Holland, which would make op for loan difference?

@Bold part
I wasnt implying that YOU didnt earned it, it was a general comment.(Dont draw hasty conclusions)

Just because the government lets you drink alcohol doesn't mean it doesn't kill brain cells.

This is where I laughed.

Goverment lets you take medicin, doesnt mean it doesnt cure you. o_o

32.00 a hour?

That's nothing compared to the millions the label company director get by doing nothing.

 

[Deman]

Hmm.. After reading through this thread again, could I take it back to the original topic of whether or not it's right to rip and burn CDs you've already bought and ignore the filesharing part of this equation since that seems to be causing unrest? I'm guilty of being offtopic too, so I won't be doing anything to those who were off topic as well, but this now is me pretty much saying this thread needs to get back on topic. Want to discuss filesharing? Make another thread about it and see if you can calmy discuss it.

 

[Half-Unit]

Copyright. Know what the word means?

Copyright - The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work.

Stealing. Know what the word means?

Stealing - To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

The government gives you permission, but the recording artist doesn't, so yes; it's still stealing. I read somewhere that US law allows the downloading of music, but it's still copyrighted and you can still be sued for it.

wasnt implying that YOU didnt earned it, it was a general comment.(Dont draw hasty conclusions)

And if you can spend 15 euro like that, something is given to you, let it be a good job or wealthy parents....

Speak more clearly next time, how 'bout that? Even if you are making a "general comment", I fell into your generalization and I didn't like it.

Again, I put the minimum wage in the US just to show how crappy your job is, not in an attempt to help you. Are YOU slow? Granted the knowledge won't help you, but 3.03 an hour? You should be pissed at the minimum wage in Holland, not the music industry.

That's nothing compared to the millions the label company director get by doing nothing

Doesn't matter! Just because someone's richer than you doesn't mean you can jack their property!

Hmm.. After reading through this thread again, could I take it back to the original topic of whether or not it's right to rip and burn CDs you've already bought and ignore the file sharing part of this equation since that seems to be causing unrest? I'm guilty of being off topic too, so I won't be doing anything to those who were off topic as well, but this now is me pretty much saying this thread needs to get back on topic. Want to discuss filesharing? Make another thread about it and see if you can calmy discuss it.

Ripping CD's and burning go hand in hand with file sharing. Without ripping, their is no file sharing (not to say I disagree with ripping). Why make a separate topic? I mean, if you really want me to make a separate topic I will, but I don't see the point.

 

[Phatslugga]

Half-Unit and Devion, you can both continue your argument in PM's, if you keep this up, I will close the topic and hand out warnings to both of you. This is your last warning, please calm down and get back on topic.

 

[Devion]

Copyright. Know what the word means?

Copyright - The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work.

Stealing. Know what the word means?

Stealing - To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

The government gives you permission, but the recording artist doesn't, so yes; it's still stealing. I read somewhere that US law allows the downloading of music, but it's still copyrighted and you can still be sued for it.

Ok, lets take it on the letter,I'm not stealing since I dont TAKE his property, I'm mere copying it.(And I'm not sharing os there goes your copyright)

Speak more clearly next time, how 'bout that? Even if you are making a "general comment", I fell into your generalization and I didn't like it.

If you misunderstood then I'm sorry.

Again, I put the minimum wage in the US just to show how crappy your job is, not in an attempt to help you. Are YOU slow? Granted the knowledge won't help you, but 3.03 an hour? You should be pissed at the minimum wage in Holland, not the music industry.

Maybe the other prices(of food etc) are much lower in Holland which makes up for loan difference?(Duh?) (I already said this in my previous post)

Doesn't matter! Just because someone's richer than you doesn't mean you can jack their property!

I'm not taking his property, mere copying, and last time I checked, keeping prices artificually high was also illegal.

Ripping CD's and burning go hand in hand with file sharing. Without ripping, their is no file sharing (not to say I disagree with ripping). Why make a separate topic? I mean, if you really want me to make a separate topic I will, but I don't see the point.

Not always since you can also download/buy music from the internet, so you dont have to rip. (But you are right, they most of the time go hand in hand)

EDIT: Sorry Phatslugga, just read your post, I already the quote button when I read his post >_< (And before reading yours )

EDIT 2: Stupid typo

 

[Jesus]

Stealing implies an illegal act. If the government allows the downloading of mp3's, it's not stealing.

I'm going to repeat something that's been repeated again and again in this thread. Artists don't lose money by me downloading, because it's money I wouldn't have spent in the first place.. How can they be losing out on something they were never going to get. I used to never buy CD's before the p2p craze exploded. I just listened to the radio.

so then what if everyone goes by your logic, and says "were not gonna buy cd's anymore... it means they arent missing out, because they arent gonna get teh money anyway."

then whats gonna happen?

no one has come up with an answer to me or pride yet either... what happens to a band that need the money to pay for food? i cant work full time AND be in a touring band... it just wouldnt work. i need money. and your stopping me from getting it.


in fairness though, i feel that once youve purchased your music, your freely allowed to do what you like with it. except you cant give it to someone else, as your giving them YOUR rights to that music. they arent buying their own rights.

 

[Skiwan]

What happened to people making music for the art? Like i said most stuff I listen to, if the artist isnt earning enough then they take up a second job, they're human too you know its not like they only can be in a big band or they're broke. Yeah it sucks that people can double click and take somebody's time and effort away, but music made just so they can earn money, well thats the gamble they take, if they decide to make music, as with any artform, they should be doing it for the passion they feel for it, not just success, because thats the risk every artist takes. What exactly happened to the message behind the music being important? money is more important now.

Im not saying its right that people are downloading music these days, but the music industry is a sham, full of arrogant people demanding money for little work/contribution to society. Its all greed, either side of the arguement. I buy the albums i can afford, and which i think deserve my money, if its a band i love and feel that should carry on, i'll do my best to support them.

 

[Jesus]

dave, i think ull find that the "making it for the art" part, comes from the love of the stage... it isnt the fact youve made a good track, because no one can see youve made a good track... its when a band gets on stage, and they see hundreds or thousands of people dancing/rocking/moshing/headbanging to their music... THATS the real satisfaction... i would, and still do that for free..

but bands have to put their own money into making cd's, into the recording, paying for technicians etc... its just not something thats affordable in todays society.