Seattle cop punches teenage girl in the face for being an idiot.

[hleV]

Cops are not to be messed with, *****.

 

[Brosiris]

I would resist if I were arrested. Well, perhaps not for jay walking (Dumb law anyway, I've been to NY and jay walked plenty of times because I'm a responsible adult who can think for himself and decide where to cross a ****ing road) since that's probably just a fine but I'd certainly resist arrest for significant things, say if I thought I was going to be put away for a long time. I mostly say this because I break many laws I feel are unjustified and no way am I going to let someone punish me for something I don't believe is wrong.

*edit* Also, cops should only resort to violence in the most absolutely necessary circumstances. Unfortunately this doesn't happen often because most people that apply to become police officers (I say most- certainly not all, I know some good people with genuine intentions training to become officers) are power hungry idiots in it for the authority, usually people with a little steam to blow off.. But an officer of the law should be restrained and know how to receive violence without escalating the situation. And yes, I am saying a police officer when attacked should not retaliate. Perhaps restrain, say if he held her hands and tried to calm her down, but punching her isn't the way. It just makes her more distraught, angry and in pain

Resisting arrest is against the law, it will only further complicate your due process and make things worse for yourself. Three things to NEVER do when coming in contact with a police officer is 1. Never lie to an officer, 2. Never assault an officer and 3. Never resist arrest. These three actions are easily avoidable and if done, will only guarantee your arrest, and make your conviction worse for yourself, I can promise you that.

As for the Police Officer using force; they're trained for it. The officer in question was attempting to arrest a female, who was resisting arrest, and as the video shows, the officer was being relatively nice about it not putting up much of a fight. When the female in the pink shirt intervened, the officer had to stand his ground and do what was necessary to apprehend both subjects (because at this point, both broke the law; the female in the black blouse for resisting arrest, and j-walking, and the female in the pink for assaulting an officer).

Now, I don't know about you, but even though I'm a male, and even though I go to the gym 4 times a week, I am not confident enough to hold one girl down with one hand, and one down with another, while trying to arrest both. The officer HAD to apprehend both in some way or another. If he didn't punch her, he was probably going to taze her, and to be frank, I'd MUCH rather take a blow to the face, and suffer a bruise, than get tazed, possibly wet myself due to no control over my body, fall to the ground, break something, and pay huge hospital fines for it.

Now, I will admit, the officer should have waited for back up. However, since he was going it solo when it happened, I feel he was in the right, he had to disorient someone in some way. Punching sounds harsh, but what else could he have done?

---------- Double Post below was added at - 04:46 PM has been merged with this post created - 04:41 PM at ----------

Cops are not to be messed with, *****.

It's not that you can't mess with cops, it's that you have to know how to assert your rights. You have rights, and if you know how to assert them, even if you are breaking the law, and smart, you can still get out of it. I'm not saying break the law, I'm merely stating that you have rights, and for a reason. I'm willing to bet 90% of people (myself included even though I know my rights well), give up nearly all their rights during police encounters. All you can do during police encounters is assert your rights. If you do, and a police does something wrong during that time, you can file a grievance against said police officer. However, that's really all you can do. But don't think the police have all the power, they don't.

 

[Zeonix]

All of this talk about equal treatment is nonsense. Physically, nine times out of ten, women are inferior. That needs to be kept in mind when deciding what level of force to use, and how much force to use. If you're still wrapped up about feminists and equal treatment because you intend to be disingenuous, think of it this way: If a scrawny dude is trying to get scrappy, I'm using contact controls or compliance techniques. I'm not going straight to defensive tactics, and leaving the dude in a pool of blood. Why? Because he's frail and pushing me doesn't give me the right to swing on him, in much the same way that punching me doesn't give me the right to skip straight to deadly force. As an officer of the law, you're supposed to be taught how to make people compliant without turning it all the way up to 11. This guy clearly did not have that skill set for whatever reason.

If compliance techniques are not part of their training regiment, it needs to be added immediately, otherwise when it's two guys instead of two women, this cop doesn't stand a chance unless he pulls his pistol on them.

Switching gears.

By punching the second chick, he neutralized her almost immediately allowing him to focus his full attention on the primary target. He had already called for back up as a result of the growing crowd and general rowdiness of the women, and they would be arriving shortly. Because of his decisiveness and the escalation of force used, he turned a potentially explosive situation into a run of the mill arrest, albeit for jay walking.

Good job!

As a side note, the pain induced by tazing only lasts a few minutes after the shock stops whereas getting punched in the face usually means having an inflamed cheek and black eyes for a week. I'd rather someone attempt to punch me, but only because it's easier to evade/counter.

 

[Chakra-X]

I mostly say this because I break many laws I feel are unjustified and no way am I going to let someone punish me for something I don't believe is wrong.

That may have worked when white policemen were sicking dogs on black people for sitting at a counter, but that's a pretty big force you're fighting. What does resisting accomplish?

 

[-Origin]

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

[Rocky]

All of this talk about equal treatment is nonsense. Physically, nine times out of ten, women are inferior. That needs to be kept in mind when deciding what level of force to use, and how much force to use. If you're still wrapped up about feminists and equal treatment because you intend to be disingenuous, think of it this way: If a scrawny dude is trying to get scrappy, I'm using contact controls or compliance techniques. I'm not going straight to defensive tactics, and leaving the dude in a pool of blood. Why? Because he's frail and pushing me doesn't give me the right to swing on him, in much the same way that punching me doesn't give me the right to skip straight to deadly force. As an officer of the law, you're supposed to be taught how to make people compliant without turning it all the way up to 11. This guy clearly did not have that skill set for whatever reason.

If compliance techniques are not part of their training regiment, it needs to be added immediately, otherwise when it's two guys instead of two women, this cop doesn't stand a chance unless he pulls his pistol on them.

This.

Replace 17 year old girl with 85 year old man, is it cool for him to punch the old guy in the face because he shoved him? No, of course not, the officer was retarded and grossly incompetent that he had to resort to punching a 17 year old girl in the face in order to carry out the arrests. Really, if it was two guys, it would've been the cop who got punched in the face.

Yes he accomplished his goal and made two arrests, but the way he did it could've been handled way better.

 

[Spunky]

By punching the second chick, he neutralized her almost immediately allowing him to focus his full attention on the primary target. He had already called for back up as a result of the growing crowd and general rowdiness of the women, and they would be arriving shortly. Because of his decisiveness and the escalation of force used, he turned a potentially explosive situation into a run of the mill arrest, albeit for jay walking.

Good job!

You missed that part.

 

[Brosiris]

I wrote an entire book for a reply but this forum loves to randomly log me off, and unfortunately I'm not willing to re-type everything I wrote. Pretend I wrote a damn good argument in the spaces below.



























The end.

 

[Rocky]

You missed that part.

Not the point, he could have neutralized her using other means which are detailed in the first half.

Moral of the story, the cop shouldn't have done what he did.

 

[sub]

I'm with the cop

1) In regards to the "Who gets arrested for jaywalking" complaint, I'd like to point out that the girl originally got a verbal warning for jaywalking. He only decided to arrest her after the girls got aggressive and started arguing with the officer
2) You do not under any ****ing circumstance touch an officer like in this video. What did she think she was going to accomplish, make the officer give up?
3) The officer was surrounded by a crowd which was getting progressively hostile. He had to do something to gain control of the situation and prevent them from lynching him. A punch accomplished that, and it's better than a taser.
4) The fact that they are girls is irrelevant.

I'd just like to add that this video demonstrates why it is good to have civilians film police officers (I believe there are laws in Britain forbidding this). If I had read about this without seeing the tape, we would have one persons word over another and I might have sided with the girls.

 

[Spunky]

All of this talk about equal treatment is nonsense. Physically, nine times out of ten, women are inferior. That needs to be kept in mind when deciding what level of force to use, and how much force to use. If you're still wrapped up about feminists and equal treatment because you intend to be disingenuous, think of it this way: If a scrawny dude is trying to get scrappy, I'm using contact controls or compliance techniques. I'm not going straight to defensive tactics, and leaving the dude in a pool of blood. Why? Because he's frail and pushing me doesn't give me the right to swing on him, in much the same way that punching me doesn't give me the right to skip straight to deadly force. As an officer of the law, you're supposed to be taught how to make people compliant without turning it all the way up to 11. This guy clearly did not have that skill set for whatever reason.

He was exercising caution with the first girl. When the second girl came up and shoved him, it was no longer about control, it was about defense. Another thing to keep in mind is that women generally act on emotion, not logic. You can't apply a logical mind when dealing with a woman because they generally aren't rational under stress like most men. They act purely on emotion. The smallest angry woman can knock you out as fast as the heaviest man. That's just the way they are. In a fight, anger is as good as bravery.

If compliance techniques are not part of their training regiment, it needs to be added immediately, otherwise when it's two guys instead of two women, this cop doesn't stand a chance unless he pulls his pistol on them.

It's part of every cop's training. My brother had to take a six week class on just that. He says the cop used the best judgement he could have. Cops are trained for every possible situation. My brother described the use of force matrix to me earlier.

Level 1: presence. Your mere presence is a show of force. When you show up to control a situation, the mere sight of an officer approaching is enough to calm most people down.

Level 2: command. Let's say the person doesn't calm down. "You sir/ma'am, calm down and stand over here."

Level 3: touch. The person doesn't calm down, but continues to argue or whatever they're doing that they shouldn't be doing. "Sir/ma'am, calm down and stand over here." This time you grab their arm, and try to lead them away from the situation.

Level 4: control. The person actively resists your touch. Now it's time to use physical force. You'll notice in the video, the first girl was struggling, but not in a way so as to endanger the cop. He knew he wasn't in any danger, he had both of her arms. He didn't want to hurt her. Of course he could have put her in a hold, but that would hurt her, and as you said, she's just a teenage girl.

Level 5: deadly force. Speaks for itself. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Deadly+Force

When a cop arrives at a call, their minds go through all of this. They assess the situation and take the appropriate actions.

My brother spent about 40 minutes after that teaching me compliance techniques, which was fun. That cop could have put her in a hold and just slammed her on the ground, but he was being a gentleman. It's a teenage girl, she's being arrested on a jay-walking charge, not for a violent crime. He's not about to use force on her. He was holding her, she would have worn herself out eventually.

Here comes the girl in the pink shirt, being a *****, trying to protect her friend. Understandable, she was highly emotional, but she made the wrong move. You can see her friend trying to hold her back, which means someone else knew she was about to do something extremely stupid. She ignores her friend, walks up to the cop, and shoves him. That's assault.

Now, when you punch someone in the face, they're not likely to get back up and mess with you again, for two reasons. First, it hurts. Getting punched isn't fun. But it doesn't only hurt their face, it hurts their pride. It's demoralizing, they feel like less of a person. After he punched her, she was nowhere to be found. She ceased to be a threat and he was able to make both arrests without much resistance.

As a side note, the pain induced by tazing only lasts a few minutes after the shock stops whereas getting punched in the face usually means having an inflamed cheek and black eyes for a week. I'd rather someone attempt to punch me, but only because it's easier to evade/counter.

Have you ever had a black eye? It hurts like any other bruise. You can poke at it and it'll hurt, but it's not like it's constantly throbbing until it heals. It's a big bruise over your eye. Big deal. She wasn't permanently harmed. Believe it or not, cops are trained to punch people in the face in situations like these. He did absolutely everything right. Do you really think he wanted to hurt her? He probably feels like an ******* about it right now, but he had to do it, she assaulted him and was escalating the situation.

Ok, you say people may have been incited to intervene. The girl was already intervening, he had to make an example. What would have happened if she had shoved him and he did absolutely nothing? "This cop is a pussy, he's not going to do anything." Nobody sees him as an intimidating force anymore. If this teenage girl can push him around, what's to stop others from trying to intervene as well?

He could have let the first suspect go, or he could have tazed her. Those were really his only two options. Tazing is far worse than getting punched in the face, and if he had been attacked by a third person while tazing the second and holding the first, he couldn't holster his weapon fast enough to react. He would have dropped it. Now there's a weapon on the ground that can be used against him.

If he had done absolutely nothing and just took it, he would have lost all control, and control is the most important thing when you're surrounded by people who are potentially hostile to you. You are a dominating force, and you have to remain as intimidating as possible for your own safety. This is why cops still carry asps. They're rarely used to attack someone. The mere sight and sound of an asp extending, and the heavy presence of the officer holding it, is enough to deter most suspects. Asps are also useful tools for the same reason they're good at breaking bones.

 

[Rocky]

http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=4&p=001363

Not sure how many of you read MS Paint Adventures, but this thread reminds me of that scene.

http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm

Second more on topic link, there are 6 levels of force (pretty much the same as what we learned in security). The one we're concerned with is level three, Empty Hand Control:

Empty Hand Control. Certain situations will arise where words alone will not reduce the aggression. This is the time police officers will need to get involved physically. This is a level of control employed by police officers minus the aid of equipment or weapons. There are two subcategories called, “soft empty hand techniques” and “hard empty hand techniques.” Soft Empty Hand Techniques: At this level minimal force would involve the use of bare hands to guide, hold, and restrain -- applying pressure points, and take down techniques that have a minimal chance of injury. Hard Empty Hand Techniques: At this level the use of force includes kicks, punches or other striking techniques such as the brachial stun or other strikes to key motor points that have a moderate chance of injury.

The officer went for the hard empty hand technique, which is obviously a higher level of force than the soft empty hand technique. I strongly believe that he could've resolved the situation using the soft method. All I'm saying in this thread is that he should've tried soft before hard, he's escalated further than he needed to.

 

[Spunky]

Rocky, he was already dealing with another girl. If you're dealing with ONE PERSON, that would be perfectly correct, but he wasn't, so that would be retarded. He was using less force with the first girl. When the second shoved him, it became a defensive situation. Did you even read my post?

 

[Rocky]

Yeah, and as demonstrated in the video. He punched her and followed through by putting her in a lock and slamming her into the back of the car followed by the arrest (presumably cuffing her) WHILE IGNORING THE OTHER GIRL WHO WAS STRUGGLING BEHIND HIM.

I really think you're overestimating these girls, as we've all agreed, they're just teenage girls, you don't need to start throwing punches in order to quiet them down. If he could do what he did with the smaller girl attacking him from behind, he didn't need to punch. It's not like he was caught up against two burly boxers. They're teenage girls for christ's sake! What part of that are you failing to understand?

 

[Spunky]

Nobody has agree on this except you and Zeo, and even Zeo agrees punching her easily deescalated the situation. If you watch the video, he's shoved away from the first girl. They're both in front of him. He can clearly see her until he goes to punch the girl in the pink shirt, at which point the other girl tries to get a hold on him from behind. After, you don't see the second girl anywhere in the video, and he goes back to dealing with the first.

At no point do I fail to understand that they're teenage girls. You're failing to understand that it's completely irrelevant that they're teenage girls. As I said, when fighting two people, the ONLY way to do it is to put one of them down as fast as possible, and that's what he did. He dealt with an emotional woman the same way he would have dealt with a man, with age playing nothing into it. The girl was as big as he was. He broke her spirit, and she stopped immediately.

Edit: Don't take this the wrong way, but you're a security guard. The situations you encounter in a mall or similar establishment can hardly be compared to what cops encounter on the street (especially in America). He did exactly as he was trained. He used the best judgement he possibly could have. Excessive force would have been following through with another blow, or proceeding to slam her on the ground after already retaking control. He broke her spirit and she ceased to be a threat to him.

 

[Rocky]

and as you said, she's just a teenage girl.

That's what I was referring to with the "agreed" statement.

I have no doubt that what he did was effective, it was. My point is that he was overly effective, like shooting a fly with a bazooka. Does it kill the fly? Yes, but you can do the same with a fly swatter. It is relevant that they are teenage girls because they are essentially flies when compared to a properly trained, (assumedly) athletic cop. He could've taken his gun out and shot them both in the leg, that would've had the same effect, but that's excessive. Same is punching one in the face when he could've put pink girl in a lock and dealt with her however he ended up dealing with her (Cuffs?).

The fact the second girl was still around means she wasn't going to run away and the fact she was ignored while he dealt with the pink girl means she wasn't a threat. The dealing with two people only applies if both are threats. The smaller girl (and to a lesser extent, the larger one) was not a threat (highlighted by the fact she was ignored while smacking him in the back).

And finally, I was a security guard, am no longer one, and while I will never say that the **** I had to deal with is on a comparable level to what police officers in America have to deal with on a daily basis, I will say that I was a security guard in bars and clubs around Sydney and we have our fair share of **** to deal with, drunks, drugs and generally pissed off people who'd be in similar condition as the "highly emotional" state the pink girl was in.

I've also been in my fair share of fights, and fortunately (or unfortunately) it's very, very hard for a security guard in Australia to get away with throwing a closed fist against anybody, regardless of the scenario. So you'll have to understand why I'm so strong of the opinion that this particular scenario could've been resolved without fists, as I believe I could've done so had it been me, and it's been about 18 months since I last worked a security shift and I'm likely nowhere near as conditioned and trained as that cop should be.

 

[Spunky]

That's a fair and reasonable assessment, and you're perfectly entitled to it. If it works for you, great. No cop will watch this video and feel the actions depicted were unjustified. It just won't happen. My brother's instructor found this video and made his entire class watch it (hence how I know about it). All but one person (including the instructor) agreed the cop made the right decision. Even the chief of his department said the only mistake he made was not using force sooner.

He hit a girl, who obviously wasn't concerned for her own safety when she decided to SHOVE A COP. He could have done much worse and still been within legal bounds. He was much less of a dick in reality than you think he was. He did what he had to and broke her spirit. She immediately ceased to be a threat. End of story. The only disagreeing comments I've read on YouTube have been posted by people entirely ignorant of law enforcement and why cops are trained that way.

 

[Rocky]

Cause comments from people on YouTube are totally legit.

"Lulz, the ***** got punched lololol"

If it wasn't a big deal there wouldn't be a probe and investigation into it.

I also don't think he's a dick, I just think he made the wrong decision and took it too far. He solved the dispute, he did it relatively efficiently, but he went too far in my opinion. As someone who's been in similar (albeit not quite the same) situations, I can confidently say that.

That is all.

 

[Spunky]

A review in cases like this where a grievance was obviously filed is standard. It doesn't mean he did anything wrong, it means someone feels it's worth looking into. That's it. The department is saving face by "looking into it" because bad media can hurt their image in the eyes of the ignorant and gullible. 95% of what I've read and who I've talked to (short of **** posted by people who don't know anything about law enforcement) have agreed the cop was perfectly in line. The girl wasn't.

There are thoughtful reviews on YouTube as well, not unlike this thread. You chose to quote an idiot, which is fine, but you should pay equal attention to the people who care enough to write something constructive (which doesn't necessarily mean in my favor).

 

[guest]

It really doesn't look like the officer is acting rationally or as trained at all. If he were doing as he was trained I'm betting he'd be restraining her with her arms behind her back against the car, which wouldn't have been difficult given their difference in physical strength. Instead he seems to throws a punch out of frustration and anger, not exactly a well calculated decision. Unlike us in that situation he didn't have time to think about the ramifications of his actions