Nintendo's Reputation?!?

[Zeonix]

Nintendo is re-using ideas from long ago, the PS2 is re-using ideas from 1-3 years ago, and the same goes for X-Box. Personally, i dont care how many times an idea or license is used. If the game turns out good, then I'll buy it. The problem is GameCube really doesn't have many good games. Super Mario 94 will come out, and it'll be the same **** as Super Mario 2. The other 2 consoles make sequels, but generally they are better than the game on which they are being based.

 

[SailorAlea]

Care to count up Pac Man, jackass? Thought not. Call me stupid again, and I warn you.

We used to have civilized conversations on AIM, with a little effort on your part, you can argue without insulting me, or my intelligence.

All the game companies rehash, and comparing rehashed games to rehashed games is not stupid as you imply.

After all, a minor transgression of tact is a minor transgression of tact, like you just proved. I'm not comparing apples and oranges, my dear little flammable object, I'm comparing a baking apple to the local fair blue ribbon winner.

"Jackass"? Well, that certainly does describe someone who misinterprets what I said, overly takes offensive and then responds hypocritically. I was saying comparing Nintendo's level of 'rehash' and Tecmo/Namco's supposed level is stupid. Not that you were stupid, although you were indeed being obtuse. Many gaming companies 'rehash.' Nintendo BY FAR DOES IT MORE than anyone else. Which is the point that you seem to miss over and over again.

And as a sidenote, Pacman's is Atari's, even if Namco has released the Classics Pack/etc.

 

[DiebytheSword]

And as a sidenote, Pacman's is Atari's, even if Namco has released the Classics Pack/etc.

Ignoring your inability to conduct civilized conversation over the forum, I'll happily point out that this part is quite wrong. Namco developed and owns Pac Man. A namco employee thought of the sprite character while viewing a partially eaten pizza pie.

 

[DragonDude]

Making sequels to games isn't the problem. Making bad sequels is. But tell me, how is that worse than making a bad original game? It isn't.

Final Fantasy 20 is going to come out, and FF fans are going to eat it up. The Legend of Zelda : The Adventure of the Four Sword's Link to the Majora's Mask of Time is going to come out, and Zelda fans are going to love it. Halo 4 is going to be developed, and Halo junkies are going to flip out over it.

These companies make what they know has worked before. They make video games, but they also (want to) make money. Nintendo isn't the only company that does it, nor is Sony, nor is Microsoft. Comparing individual companies to eachother is a stupid waste of time, as the only developers you'll see taking huge risks are indie developers, since they don't have as much to lose.

 

[SailorAlea]

Ignoring your inability to conduct civilized conversation over the forum, I'll happily point out that this part is quite wrong. Namco developed and owns Pac Man. A namco employee thought of the sprite character while viewing a partially eaten pizza pie.

You continuing to assert that there is no difference between Nintendo's and other companies level of rehash is evident of an inability to conduct debate. The dismissal of a large amount of valid evidence rather than admitting the mistake.

You're comparing the giant Evil of game development to other neutral developers. It's not an apt comparison. Not all sequels are rehash. Nintendo rehashes. Tecmo doesn't, really. Namco does somewhat. You can't dismiss one person (or company's) actions by pointing out what other companies have done as well, especially if they haven't done even one-fourth as much! Like I said before, the only other company which rivals Nintendo in this matter is Electronic Arts.

You are indeed comparing apples to oranges. Or should I say, someone who has committed 1000 crimes to someone who has committed 100. Or in the case of Tecmo, virtually none.
In any case, I was indeed wrong about Pac-Man. Namco developed it.

 

[Cap J]

You can more or less guarantee that Tecmo will have rehashed the DOA series as mush as Nintendo has with others when they have been around for as long as Nintendo.

Electronic Arts........*shudder* One good game out of however many billion.....and that was on the MegaDrive (Genesis)

But as has been said, they will stop doing it when people stop buying them.

I also find it odd that no one has mentioned the Street Fighter series.

 

[Gameinformer313]

Well despite everything that was said up until now, i would like to throw out abit of alittle more " revolution " information. Im not sure if anyone has read any of this recently, but from the look of all this, i have to say, if this all is true and they actually go through with everything there stating in these paragraphs right now, then the " revolution " might truely be a great gaming console experince, these are really great details. It's all in this link, i just hope its all true as well but with a long read like this it probally is true. I kept up with mostly everything about the revolution so it sounds like nintendo knows what there doing this time around, even by including online play.

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=30389

 

[Hash]

Jesus, I hope to god that info turns out to be true. It sounds ridiculously awesome.

My god! If you go down the page, you find a link to that guy saying what the game he is apparantly working on for Sega is. Wait for it...............wait for it.............................................It's Vectorman!

If all this really is true, well i'm gonna be getting a Revolution just for Vectorman, god do I love that game!

 

[Eclipse]

I disagree with the people in this thread that say that Nintendo is ONLY milking thier old series, because that is simply not true. Off the top of my head I am going to list new franchises this gen:

Animal Crossing
Pikmin
Advance Wars
Golden Sun
Band Brothers
Polarium
Nintendogs
Giest

Now thats after 3 seconds of thinking, and I probably missed some. Thats not even including the new franchises they have made with exisiting characters. I don't understand the problem, people seem to have with mario being the main character in the game if the game is still unique, and fun. Look at WarioWare Touched, Paper Mario, Metroid Prime. All these games are vastly different then thier original games, but they have a character in it you know. Whats so bad about that?You can only expect so much out of one company, they can't keep making new franchies with all their games, or people would never know what to expect. The day Nintendo says "We are never going to make another game with Link in it" is the day they piss off A LOT fo thier fan base, yet people complain they make to many of the same game

Also to the people that say "Nintendo am teh d00m3d & r goin 2 b like Sega!!!" You apparently haven't followed the video game industry very well. First, Nintendo has 6 BILLION dollars in cash, sitting in a bank account for a rainy day. Second, Nintendo has turned a profit off every system they have ever made and is continuing to do so. Third, Nintendo has gone on record MANY times to state that the day they stop making consols is the day they stop making video games.

Now switching to the DS, I also disagree that it is a rehash machine. I will lay it out there that right now, the games on the DS are pretty poor (at least in America). That doesn't change the fact that they have sold over 5 million DS's already worldwide and as far as PSP and DS sells they are pretty much even from week to week (in Japan at least, I haven't seen the American numbers). Back on topic, the DS has only 2 real ports this point in time and that is Rayman DS and Super Mario 64 DS. Thats it! Whats being released in the next few months are all new games as well, this label of the DS being a rehash machine always surprises me. Now I can understand if you want to call the PSP one....I mean half the games I can find for my PS2, and same with half the games coming out for it.

Like I said before, the only other company which rivals Nintendo in this matter is Electronic Arts.

*cough*Capcom*cough*

About all machines having rehashes, thats a givin, if your trying to say they don't, all I can do is sit back and laugh. I mean do you REALLY think Naughty Dog wants to make Jak X?!?!? Look at the GTA games, Halo 2, Mega Man...50 (including the originals, the x series, the zero series, legends, spin offs...wow)? etc. All these games are trying to make a quick buck off the same game you played when it first released. That, like others have said, is just how the industry works. The reason it's easier to point the finger at Nintendo is because they have a MUCH longer history with thier characters and franchises then other companies. Not to mention the number of franchies Nintendo has to keep going jsut to please thier fan base, they just have WAY more titles to work from then most companies. You think if Rockstar North had a consol of it's own and 14 franchies that sold and playe well, they wouldn't do it? That would just be stupid of them.... :laff:

Simply put, I think way to many people are much to critical about little things and the image that comes along with a company name. Just play the games, if they are fun they are fun, so what? Give the games a chance instead of depriving yourself of some really kick ass gaming experiences just because the game as a logo on the box =\.

 

[DiebytheSword]

You continuing to assert that there is no difference between Nintendo's and other companies level of rehash is evident of an inability to conduct debate. The dismissal of a large amount of valid evidence rather than admitting the mistake.

You're comparing the giant Evil of game development to other neutral developers. It's not an apt comparison. Not all sequels are rehash. Nintendo rehashes. Tecmo doesn't, really. Namco does somewhat. You can't dismiss one person (or company's) actions by pointing out what other companies have done as well, especially if they haven't done even one-fourth as much! Like I said before, the only other company which rivals Nintendo in this matter is Electronic Arts.

You are indeed comparing apples to oranges. Or should I say, someone who has committed 1000 crimes to someone who has committed 100. Or in the case of Tecmo, virtually none.
In any case, I was indeed wrong about Pac-Man. Namco developed it.

Your point is pointless, even if nintendo reuses the same characters over and over again, it's not 100% rehash as you claim. You cannot seriously tell me that Mario Kart is a rehash of Smash Bros. You are using one device (Tecmo not rehashing DOA . . . all were fighting games save 1) to defend one company and ignoring it for others. It's time you faced facts, you are a Nintendo hater, and you go out of your way to proove that you're "facts" are right.

They are, I guess, if you slant them one way.

Yes Nintendo is a rehash machine, but so are all the other companies, and as someone just pointed out, you need not look farther than Capcom for the all time worst rehashing company. Tekken and Soul Blade had many sequels that are, in essence, the same game, not just the same characters.

SMB 1-3 were alike, but can you really say SM64 was the same old hat?

Now, I'm going back to taking care of my child, I really don't have much more time to "discuss" this with a clearly biased person. Have fun with your Church of Nintendo hate.

Haebus Popem.

 

[Wolf Devil]

@Cap J: I was hoping to mention Capcom's uber rehashiness. Street Fighter, Megaman (thank you, Eclipse for mentiong the 50+ games), and the VS, and KoF...... It's just... yucky... Most of their games are badly broken, too..

@Eclipse: Just a little note that Animal Crossing, while original in any "series," was actually a very bad rip-off of Harvest Moon.... which they finally got made a year later >_<



My Pennies: (note: am commenting on articles as I read them)
I've read the thread posted by Gameinformer.. I wont put much stock in what they're saying, but if they do what they say they're gonna do, they might become a combative force again (possibly only ONE step behind the other companies).

They mentioned "feeling" in the games, with pressure-sensitive buttons, which is certainly a start in the right/innovative direction. When the Gamecube first came out and I got Rogue Squadron, the 2-level shoulder buttons I immediately felt were a decent novelty.

If they can find a way to give their buttons the depth, and "feeling" that they speak of, it could certainly put an interesting spin on things... I imagine such instances as slightly squeezing a trigger, for example, which would produce lighter fire with automatic weapons, and maybe affect sniper fire somehow.... If they choose to implement this, I figure they'll make the buttons more raised from the controllers.. Rubbery, like the primers on lawnmowers, for instance.

I like the idea of not paying for online play, that's for damned certain. They'll need someway to make servers for the "messageboards" they're talking about, if at all implemented, but I don't think that would be smart, nor plausible. But the chats, challenges and e-mail? Yeah, sounds good, should they implement something like TCP/IP. But I wonder certain GC owners even have friends.... j/k

The controller idea sounds interesting, as well. I think it would be much more revolutionary if they made it so you could jerk and steer the controller for things like racing, though.

I'm most excited about Square Enix having a game in development for it... Chrono Trigger 3, anyone?

Does this guy seem a bit presumptuous when he mentioned these "Halo Killers?"

I'd have to agree with him when he says that the most powerful console might not be the winner... Personally, I'm a bit skeptical about it being more powerful than either of the competition... But here's hopin, right?

He mentions that EA is working on implementing the voice controls into the next Madden game for audibles..... I just might forget that I hate EA for that one....

They would definately make a lot of money if they shoved Link and Ganon into SCIII, but it'd be a port, and more rehashing.... and Alea hates rehashing, so none of dat.


I'm hopeful for Nintendo. I'd like to think I haven't lost faith in them; in truth I'm just exasperated from all the gaming (I grew up on Duck Hunt, dammit), so I wont get uber excited or nothin...



If Nintendo is going to adjust their status, and get back to the old loveable days of SNES and 64, now would definately be the time to do it...

I know all the rehashing seems off, but I don't think it's so bad, personally... Nintendo has made several loveable characters. If they could switch it up a little, and maybe use a fresh approach to the series, it might shut some people up about it.

Like I said, I don't think it's that bad. I love these characters, and you have to face it, you do too. They deserve to keep their trademark characters, I just think they should use them a bit more sparingly, and make things newer.

I nearly ruined a good pair of pants.

 

[SailorAlea]

Your point is pointless, even if nintendo reuses the same characters over and over again, it's not 100% rehash as you claim.

Naturally it's not "100%" rehash. But they recycle the same ideas over and over again. Much -more- than any other company. MORE THAN ANY OTHER COMPANY. MORE. MORE. MORE. That's the point. And it isn't meaningless.

(Tecmo not rehashing DOA . . . all were fighting games save 1) to defend one company and ignoring it for others.

and you go out of your way to proove that you're "facts" are right.

How many Mario games are there? 70+. How many DOA games are there? 5. That alone proves you're the one desperately trying to prove that both companies do "exactly the same thing" when in fact, their practices are very, very different.

They are, I guess, if you slant them one way.

I don't slant them that way. They fall down the 'hill' by themselves.

 

[Cap J]

So you're saying it's a clear and undoubted rehash if it simply has the same character in it regardless of what style of game the new one is? The way you make it out is that Nintendo make every single game the same, sure there are a lot of Mario games, but there are many different genres in that number, whereas DOA are mainly fighting games. The most Mario games that are the same that I can think of is 6 out of probably 70+ games, there are 5 DOA fighting games out of 6 DOA games.

 

[SailorAlea]

The "rehash" isn't just making sequels, as I said. There are ways to make quality sequels. There have been several "legitimate" sequels in the Mario line.

But how many of the Mario games are near-identical to ones they released years ago? But how many of the 'sequels' are -exactly- the same as their predecessors in the case of the numerous gameboy games?

In any case, there are 4 DOA fighting games and one Volleyball one.

 

[Cap J]

"Near-identical to ones they released years ago?" Not many. And the DOA games are near identical to their predecessors.
DOA (PS)
DOA2(DC & PS2)
DOA Ultimate 1 + 2 (Xbox)
DOA3 (Xbox)
DOA: XBV

 

[SailorAlea]

Tecmo's released:
Dead or Alive (PlayStation/Arcade)
Dead or Alive 2(Dreamcast/PlayStation2/Arcade)
Dead or Alive 3(X-Box)
Dead or Alive Ultimate[Contains DOA1/DOA2](X-Box)

DOA1-3 are all stand-alone games. DOAU is just the release of DOA and DOA2 for X-box, with Online-Play included.

Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball is a stand-alone, non-fighting game.

If you say they're "nearly identical," then you apparently haven't played them very much. DOA and DOA2 are vastly different. DOA3 is somewhat similar to DOA2, but added a few new chars, lots of new moves, and much more interactive environments.

 

[Eon]

Eh, I'm very content with nintendo, I don't think it's as much rehash as stated before, look at the jump betwen a sid escrolling metroid to metroid prime, at the very least it isn't like capcom, with Streetfighter having a trillion guys that look different, but all have the same fighting style (Ryu, Ken, Dan hibiki, akuma, and the lot, and then there's the guys that are like guile an dso forth. I dunno, I've just always been content with Nintendo.

Nintendo does overdue the reuse of their characters, but in different genres )Paper Mario, Mario RPG, still great games though) would be nice to see the same style of games but with more originality behind it.

 

[Cap J]

"DOAU is just the release of DOA and DOA2 for X-box, with Online-Play included." With a lot more added content (some couple of hundred costumes) as well, meaning, rehash, MAJOR rehash. Whereas there are only a couple of Mario games that have been re-releases......only 1 that I can think of. Hell, you could count DOA2:H as a rehash as it has more characters, more costumes, and more levels.

DOA - "5" games, 2 genres
Mario - 70+ games, countless genres

 

[Eclipse]

The only mario rehash i can honestly give yah sailor is the mario party series and i think we all agree....that can die. Other then they they have all pretty much been legitmate sequals (except the rereleases)

 

[Cap J]

Sadly the Mario party series won't die....there seem to be people who are adamant that they must buy every single one they release....all....6? of them.