Nintendo's Reputation?!?

[Majin_You]

When I first heard they were going to make their next handheld "dual screen," my jaw almost literally hit the floor. I knew they were screwed right then and there.

I'm sorry to directly debate this, but I think it's way too premature to say that the DS is going to "screw [Nintendo] right then and there". As far as I can see, PSP games aren't being rated that much better than the DS games. They both need time to take off.

I, for one, don't think that it would hurt too much if Nintendo stopped making consoles. If they were forced into Sega's position, I would still be happy. The main reason I buy Nintendo consoles is to get Nintendo games. I like them. When I've had an annoyingly long day at University complete with labs, I don't want to come home to an "uber-realistic" shooter or tactical simulator where I have to think my way carefully through every move and worry about being "pwnt" by "t3h pros". Sorry, I would have just spent the last 3 hours carefully planning out my lab procedures so that my grade doesn't get "pwnt" by "t3h TA". Nintendo games aren't overly violent or gorey, I know. They may also rehash an old formula, but it works, in my opinion. Their games are simple and very entertaining.

Therefore, I would hope that, if their new console doesn't take off, they stay around and create games as a third-party producer, or, at least, devote more time to the DS to make it something really special. I don't think Nintendo is screwed. Even if they are outdone in console sales, they can still remain to produce games for the other console(s). They are able to create games that are simple, but effective in entertaining the player. Even if they aren't the cup of tea of most members on this forum, there are several people my age that do find Nintendo's exclusive games very entertaining.

 

[L]

Just Goldeneye and Perfect Dark

Heey, You forgot Killer Instinct -.-

 

[Fire Phoenix]

Mario - WAS good...but now all they're making is Mario Party games and sports games. no adventure games at all. The last mario adventure game was Mario 64...and it was remade into DS. Even then it didn't feel like "mario." Nintendo needs to get with square and make more games like Mario RPG. None of this Paper Mario crap. Strangely enough, Mario RPG is one of the better RPGs out there.

Zelda - Can't really complain....though OoT was definately the best, LttP, MM, and WW weren't too bad either. The newest one looks awesome though. IMO...Zelda is whats keeping Nintendo alive.

Pokemon - Let it die. Period.

Kirby - They need something new. All kirby games are the same.

Metroid - Super Metroid was the peak. Metroid Prime has its moments...but it wasn't too fun. And Metroid Prime 2 is easilly the most boring metroid of them all.

Donkey Kong - DKC1-3 were fun...but DK64 flopped. And now they have...Bongo's? Ok..interecting concept...but still crap nonetheless.

Banjo-Kazooie - WTF happened? They had a hit with this game and all of a sudden they lose it because Rare ditched them. Nintendo should have tried to grab the B-K rights.


In short...make better mario games, keep Zelda games adult and fun...lose pokemon...make something new for Kirby, bring back old school DKC type games...and for god's sake make a metroid game thats FUN!!!

IMO...they need to get square-enix to make another RPG based off nintendo characters. You know...combine mario, link, kirby, ect...all brought together to take some bad guy down....thats NOT master hand. Think of it like nintendo's answer to Kingdom Hearts.

I beg do differ, that's not all they make. They make quite a few action games. And adventure games. only problem is they are all sequels. I mean lets see there is that new star fox game thingy. Then you got Resident evil, resident evil 0 then resident evil 4... get where i'm going. But your right also. there are what? Six mario party games? something like that. And 2 metroid prime games (so far) And i agree with Magus, wait till the new Zelda comes out, that games looks soo kick ass.

 

[Half-Unit]

The new Zelda does look pretty cool, but Nintendo can only ride on Link's broad shoulders for so long. Wind Waker was fun, but it was also a joke; I never found myself in a position where I thought I was going to die. This new Zelda better have some kind of difficulty...

Resident Evil is made by capcom, btw.

 

[Adaptus]

The new 'star fox thingy' was made by namco. =/

They should've made it in-house. I don't think I'm gonna get it. >_>;

 

[Pain]

IMO...they need to get square-enix to make another RPG based off nintendo characters. You know...combine mario, link, kirby, ect...all brought together to take some bad guy down....thats NOT master hand. Think of it like nintendo's answer to Kingdom Hearts.

I would buy that.
Super Smash Bros. RPG!
I would definitely buy that.

The new Zelda coming out has a darker feel to it. I think they are going in the right direction. Let's all hope the gameplay is up to par as well.

 

[Engar]

I, for one, still hold out hope. Though I resist the term fanboy, I have to admit that just about all my top games are nintendo. Don't get me wrong, I got the PS2 with everyone else, I've gone through the final fantasy games, I loved Metal Gear Solid and all its decendants.. but nothing in my gaming experience held a torch to Ocarina of Time or Mario 64. Or Smash Bros. Or Goldeneye.

With the Gamecube Nintendo followed everyone else. Graphics jumped up and we all went 'Ooh' at the pretty colours, but was I the only one to notice that the games just didn't match the N64 at its best? And what about the SNES, where are the RPGs to meet the greatness of Crono Trigger?

The fact is that I couldn't be happier when I heard about the DS as, for the first time in a long time, it looked like Nintendo was planning a return to form. Crafting games that are fun, rather than creating consoles we can drool over. Who cares if the DS isn't the most attractive kid on the block, the day I got it I knew I had made the right choice and haven't changed that assessment since.

That first day I wandered into the kitchen of my flat playing WarioWare and people, non-gamers, walked up and asked if they could have a shot. Being the kind soul that I am () I happily obliged. Soon the kitchen was ringing with laughter and groans, gamers and non-gamers managing to enjoy something simply because it was fun.

And yes, I'll buy the PS3 when it trundles along. I'll buy the Revolution too. Part of me still goes 'Ooh' at the pretty colours and I just have to cater for it. But in a time when the level of Final Fantasy games is declining with every increase in graphical power, when gaming companies are being bought out by conglomarates that run their employees into an early grave, I still manage to find hope for the ideals of fun. Hope that Nintendo - the figure from my childhood - will keep striving and creating for this neat little gadget.

For it is only in the DS that I see the games of old reborn.

 

[SailorAlea]

And what about the SNES, where are the RPGs to meet the greatness of Crono Trigger?

Squaresoft, the 'old' Squaresoft made Chronotrigger. There will never be any more RPGs from them with the greatness of Chronotrigger, because Square Enix has no soul, and have completely lost their talent. The last good games they made were FF7/Tactics.

For it is only in the DS that I see the games of old reborn.

By reborn, you mean 'rehashed.' =\ It's true that it's nice to see classics again.. But it also means that Nintendo is so strapped for ideas, they're taking their old work, converting it to a different platform as is, and not improving/adding at all.

Personally, I don't mind the trend that games have today, like Ninja Gaiden--they make a whole, completely new game and since they take so little space, throw in the originals for free as a bonus. THAT'S the kind of way I want to see "the games of old reborn."

NOT Nintendo's way.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Well, I just got the next two games on my list for the PS2! Tekken 5 and Ace Combat 5 . . . wait a sec! It's the games of yore rehashed!

All consoles do it, Nintendo just has a larger history. You wait, 10 years from now, you'll be playing Crash Bandicoot Melee and MGS Prime. Don't forget Halo 2015 and DoA: Hardcore Hyper Turbo: Legends edition.

Not one of the alternatives has a soul, and as long as publishers like EA, Vivendi Universal, and LucasArts exsists, half the effort will be put into double the pretty. Oh yeah, nice to look at, but crappy to play. I look around at some high profile titles that should have been so much better, and it's all because it was rushed out crap.

I'm going to go with the one side not presented yet:

All the major console manufacturers suck.

Nintendo has the quality keyed up so high, you play tommorows games, sometime next month. They do as much to handicap their new consoles as possible with retarded formats, non-aggressive advertising, and rehashing galore.

Sony is all about the bottom dollar, and they will dig and scrape till they have it. You can't say that all PS2 Games are quality works, not even close, yet they still eat up the market because it's cool to have a PS2. All they've done is make smart business decisions, which ultimately hurt you and I. HDD? Practically useless, but the Eye Toy has support . To make your PS2 have the capabilities of an Xbox (haha, I mock this line), you need to shell out for the HDD and the Broadband adapter, unless you bought the new PS2, in which case the HDD and you can go scratch. The HDD only failed because they failed to support it. Then there's Sony's lovely POS QA. How many PS2s and PSPs were defective at launch and through the product cycle?

Xbox . . . . what good is the hardware if you have 5 good games to play on it? Not to mention, I've seen gaming laptops with less girth BY FAR. The original controller is a POS, but that's been corrected in later models. Lets not forget, lame pay to play online.

If you pay for the game, that should be the end of that. Shame on you MMORPG players.

 

[SailorAlea]

Well, I just got the next two games on my list for the PS2! Tekken 5 and Ace Combat 5 . . . wait a sec! It's the games of yore rehashed!

All consoles do it, Nintendo just has a larger history. You wait, 10 years from now, you'll be playing Crash Bandicoot Melee and MGS Prime. Don't forget Halo 2015 and DoA: Hardcore Hyper Turbo: Legends edition.

Not one of the alternatives has a soul, and as long as publishers like EA, Vivendi Universal, and LucasArts exsists, half the effort will be put into double the pretty. Oh yeah, nice to look at, but crappy to play. I look around at some high profile titles that should have been so much better, and it's all because it was rushed out crap.

I'm going to go with the one side not presented yet:

All the major console manufacturers suck.

Nintendo has the quality keyed up so high, you play tommorows games, sometime next month. They do as much to handicap their new consoles as possible with retarded formats, non-aggressive advertising, and rehashing galore.

Sony is all about the bottom dollar, and they will dig and scrape till they have it. You can't say that all PS2 Games are quality works, not even close, yet they still eat up the market because it's cool to have a PS2. All they've done is make smart business decisions, which ultimately hurt you and I. HDD? Practically useless, but the Eye Toy has support . To make your PS2 have the capabilities of an Xbox (haha, I mock this line), you need to shell out for the HDD and the Broadband adapter, unless you bought the new PS2, in which case the HDD and you can go scratch. The HDD only failed because they failed to support it. Then there's Sony's lovely POS QA. How many PS2s and PSPs were defective at launch and through the product cycle?

Xbox . . . . what good is the hardware if you have 5 good games to play on it? Not to mention, I've seen gaming laptops with less girth BY FAR. The original controller is a POS, but that's been corrected in later models. Lets not forget, lame pay to play online.

If you pay for the game, that should be the end of that. Shame on you MMORPG players.

You say all "Consoles" do it. Nintendo is both a console-maker and a first party game maker, as you know. Sony and Microsoft typically don't do what Nintendo does with their first-party games. The only other developer I'd say which has sunk to Nintendo's level is Electronic Arts. MGS is made by Konami, Halo by Bungie, DoA is Tecmo..Bandicoot is Naughty Dog.. That's the difference.

I happen to disagree with your stance on MMORPGs, but that's just your personal preference. As for "girth" on the X-box--who cares? I don't care if it weighs 10000 pounds or is the size of an elephant. You don't have to move it to play it.

Sony is guilty of 'accessorizing'--making you buy a port to have 4 controllers, broadband adapter/remote/etc. Microsoft didn't do that except for the DVD remote, which I thought was pretty classy of them. To throw everything in, I mean, and make the consoles at a defecit.

Nintendo is guilty of massively accessorizing, making COMPLETELY pointless add-ons like the "E-Card Reader," making games rely on other gaming systems (Zelda: Four Swords, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, etc.) They want you to buy their system, their other system, games for both, and idiotic accessories to connect the two. Sure, that's their perogative. But making a game for Gamecube that can only be played using a GBA as a controller? Pointless, and stupid.

Nintendo has a backwards stance when it comes to technology. Online capability? No. Superior data storage? No. Rehashed glory? Yes.

 

[Engar]

Just thought I'd point out that, while you are completely right about Nintendo being fairly ass-backward when it comes to the net and to the GBA - "Hey kids! You can all play together, you just need a GC, a copy of the game, four GBAs and four Link Cables.." - things do appear to be changing.

Both the DS and the Revolution have wireless built in, removing the whole mess of cables, the DS is proven net able and all DS games I know of only require one cartridge for multiplayer. I wouldn't forsake Nintendo as an extinct dinosaur quite yet, rather an ancient dragon, finally fully awake.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

I dsagree about some of the points of view here.

First, accessorizing is entirely Nintendo's animal. When the playstation2 came out it was before these ideas like console hard drives, network adapters, and 4 controller slots were really a commonality. The "Accessorizing" was just catering to the crowd, really.

To the best of my knowledge the PS2 is the only machine that is capable of SIX players via multitap. It also has free multiplayer once you buy the adapter--which comes in the new age models already, along with an HD.

Controllers--PS2, no contest, don't waste your time debating because you'd be wrong.

Cuc...MMO arguments are for another day. Consoles have no basis for that kind of complaint really, because there's no MMO's in the console market (yet... *shiver*). As for paying for a non-intuitive Xbox online service for games that get no updates, a handful of maps, and laggy playability...I agree, they should be free. Or at least a bare minimum of like, $30 dollars a year tops (I understand they have to run servers and that costs money).

Paying for computer games is one thing, they are changing and growing, there are additions and patches and new maps and expansion packs and bonus packs to be had. Paying for an Unreal Tournament knockoff sequel with smaller maps, worse graphics, no patches, and only a handful of maps or allowed players...that's just not even reasonable.

 

[Adaptus]

I dsagree about some of the points of view here.

First, accessorizing is entirely Nintendo's animal. When the playstation2 came out it was before these ideas like console hard drives, network adapters, and 4 controller slots were really a commonality. The "Accessorizing" was just catering to the crowd, really.

To the best of my knowledge the PS2 is the only machine that is capable of SIX players via multitap. It also has free multiplayer once you buy the adapter--which comes in the new age models already, along with an HD.

Yes, six players on a PS2 would actually be fun if the damn thing could HANDLE it. =/ PS2 developers nowadays try so hard to squeeze out the last big of FX they can in order to compete with the GC and XBox that they either don't have the time or the memory left to deal with extra players or NPCs. Armored Core 3 starts lagging up on me when I play against 3 bots, let alone if there were 6. There are some games that do manage to get it right, but sadly, not many. My point is, there's not really a point to being able to play with 5 others on the same console if the console can't handle it, which, in turn, is entirely the developers' fault.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Cuc...MMO arguments are for another day. Consoles have no basis for that kind of complaint really, because there's no MMO's in the console market (yet... *shiver*). As for paying for a non-intuitive Xbox online service for games that get no updates, a handful of maps, and laggy playability...I agree, they should be free. Or at least a bare minimum of like, $30 dollars a year tops (I understand they have to run servers and that costs money).

Hmm what's this FFXI junk I have in my HDD box?

Further both you and Alea missed my point, I was pointing a finger at XBox live.

W've played for free for ages, and now Microsoft wants you to pay $50 a year to play FPS online . . .

Here's a hint, put up dedicated servers for download on PC, people will dl and host them, that will take the edges off. Better yet, let the XBox host games over TCP/IP.

As for Alea's alleged difference, I would like to point out that all the consoles still have rehash . . . and that's NO difference. All of these games are still licensed to those consoles. At the very crux of your argument, you cannot be right. As for useless add ons, I happen to disagree. Many people found a use for the E Card readers, but you don't strike me as the Animal Town type. Then again, they have 8 bit nintendo carts which are just more . . . rehashed glory.

None of your arguments change what I have said, Xbox still has 3 good games, and 2 classic rehashes, pay to play online for EVERYTHING, the displacement of an ocean liner and cruddy 3rd party support (granted, not nearly as bad as the big N).

PS2 is still a money pit.

GCN is still an utter failure compared to what it could have been.

 

[KyoKusanagi]

When i purchased a NES, a PSX and the 1st generation Gameboys - it was because of the great gameplay i could enjoy, not so i could brag to my mates about the graphics. Back then it was about the fun of getting Mario to the end of each level, beating my best lap or trying out a new drift in Gran Turismo or finally seeing that damn Shuttle blast off in Tetris.

Again ill bring up the point that the PS2 is an old machine - coming on 5 to 6 years now and the technology is at least of that age if not more. It still surprises me to this day that games with the graphical quality of GT4 and Tekken 5 look and play as good as they do considering you wouldn't hope to get anywhere near the quality of PC game on a 5 to 6 year old machine. And the average graphic quality of PS2 games isn't anything shocking.

I remember the days when it was all about the gameplay, not so now with the X-Box graphic fanboys (wishing they had GT4), the PS2 nuthuggers (wishing they had Ninja Gaiden) and the GCN militia (who incidentally try and pass off SSBM as a legitimate fighting game - i'll acknowledge it as a fighting games just as soon as you acknowledge Smackdown Vs Raw as a fighting game) and its a damn shame that games aren't as good, fun, challenging or engaging as they used to be. They're pretty thats for sure and they sound better but the magic is gone.

**with a few notable exceptions - Katamari Damacy being one of them.

and BTW, I think the DS will do quite well for Nintendo and the PSP will cater to a different market - particularly those looking at a games system and a portable multimedia solution in the one package - in a similar way to when new PS2 owners were drawn in by the ability to play DVDs.

 

[SailorAlea]

Hmm what's this FFXI junk I have in my HDD box?

Further both you and Alea missed my point, I was pointing a finger at XBox live.

W've played for free for ages, and now Microsoft wants you to pay $50 a year to play FPS online . . .

Here's a hint, put up dedicated servers for download on PC, people will dl and host them, that will take the edges off. Better yet, let the XBox host games over TCP/IP.

As for Alea's alleged difference, I would like to point out that all the consoles still have rehash . . . and that's NO difference. All of these games are still licensed to those consoles. At the very crux of your argument, you cannot be right. As for useless add ons, I happen to disagree. Many people found a use for the E Card readers, but you don't strike me as the Animal Town type. Then again, they have 8 bit nintendo carts which are just more . . . rehashed glory.

None of your arguments change what I have said, Xbox still has 3 good games, and 2 classic rehashes, pay to play online for EVERYTHING, the displacement of an ocean liner and cruddy 3rd party support (granted, not nearly as bad as the big N).

PS2 is still a money pit.

GCN is still an utter failure compared to what it could have been.

I still utterly dispute what you say about "all consoles have rehash."

You cited three companies. Tecmo(Dead or Alive) Namco (Tekken) and Nintendo.

The difference between these companies is significant: Only Nintendo is a console maker, and only Nintendo rehashes. What do I mean by rehashes? Well, let's see.

Namco's biggest hits are:
Soul Edge(Blade)/Soul Calibur/Soul Calibur 2
Tekken, Tekken 2, Tekken 3, Tekken Tag, Tekken 4, Tekken 5

Tecmo's biggest hits are/were:
Ninja Gaiden 1-3, Ninja Gaiden(x-box)
Dead or Alive 1-3, DOAUltimate, DOA Volleyball

Here's the fun difference.

Nintendo's (as a developer) are/were:

Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bros 2
Super Mario Bros 3
Dr. Mario
Mario Paint
Super Mario All-Stars
Super Mario World
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars(squaresoft)
Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart DS
Mario Kart: Double Dash
Mario Kart: Super Circuit
Mario's Missing
Mario 64
Mario Party
Mario Party 2
Mario Party 3
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6
Mario Party Advance
Super Mario Land
Super Mario Land 2
Super Mario Land 3: Wario Land
Super Mario 64 DS
Mario Baseball
Mario Golf: Toodstool Tour
Mario Golf: Advance Tour
Paper Mario
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Super Mario Sunshine
Mario Pinball Land
Mario&Luigi: Superstar Saga
Mario vs. Donkey Kong
Super Mario Advance
Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2
Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3
Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3

The Legend of Zelda
Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
The Legend of Zelda: The Oracle of Seasons


The funny thing is, I'm sure I've missed thirty more. The difference is Nintendo has milked and milked and milked their series rather than making new ones, or you know--quality sequels. Comparing Nintendo to Tecmo and Namco is ****ing stupid.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Care to count up Pac Man, jackass? Thought not. Call me stupid again, and I warn you.

We used to have civilized conversations on AIM, with a little effort on your part, you can argue without insulting me, or my intelligence.

All the game companies rehash, and comparing rehashed games to rehashed games is not stupid as you imply.

After all, a minor transgression of tact is a minor transgression of tact, like you just proved. I'm not comparing apples and oranges, my dear little flammable object, I'm comparing a baking apple to the local fair blue ribbon winner.

 

[Jesus]

thats why i should be hired, cos i have so many origional ideas!

but then again, so do 80 million other people... nintendo is smart, whether we like it or not, they know how to sell things, and they know what will sell. the same is said about any company. if they keep busting out sequals, it doesnt matter **** to the company, they are in it for the money, simple as that. if we dont want them to keep making sequals, we have to stop buying them, and then they will realise "hay wait a second, were not making money from this franchise, lets make something new".

 

[Judge]

the thing nintendo is doing wrong is that they don't respond to what their target group wants.

I think they lack originality, sure the DS is original, but one handheld can't carry the entire corporation. they just need to make better games, clear and simple. they are milking out loads of different mario's but where are the games like Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy etc. ofcourse Metroid Prime and RE4 were good choices which would almost persuade you into buying a GC.

I believe they are not spending enough money and time into their marketing strategy and campaign, because I have a feeling their image is just not in-sync with their corporate identification which is a bad thing.

*EDIT*: Almighty Gir, I don't really agree with you, sure they are smart etc, etc,. but if they were that smart as you say they are, they wouldn't be doing the worst in the numbers selling GC's

 

[Fire Phoenix]

Well i know all of you talk about rehashing and stuff. Like putting old games on new systems such as the kick ass sonic 1,2,3 sonic and knuckles for the sega genesis. You can't sit there and tell me those games aren't cool. (well most of you) But you see. It's not that easy to just go out and buy a brand new sega gen, and gen games. Because it's no made anymore. All you can do is buy them used at EBX or Gamestop. Well, a nice thing that nintendo does is revive them for say people like me, and other people that liked playing the older games they grew up playing.

I'd have to say everyone has some good points. Alea, Cucumba both are understandable. But Nintendo though has many downfalls and failures, isn't 100% terrible. Understand that what everyone says here is an opinion. Now, i'm not being opinionated because I have to agree with some things alea says, and some things Cuc says, but you also should be open-minded (hopefully) when i say Nintendo isn't a complete failure. Could it have been better? yes, it could. then again, so could x-box and ps2. Not only that but some people like nintendo, while others do not, which means that not everyone is not going to love nintendo, but no everyone is going to hate it as well. Like me for instance i am not a fan of PS2.

I hope you all understand where i'm comming from. It just seems that so far, all you can say is the negative, and it seems like your forgetting the positive (and yes there is some)

Other people have told me this games was made by this company that game was made by that company. yes i know. But Gamecube is the system that it is or can be played on. Nintendo doesn't make games, and if they do it's very few. Nintendo seems to strictly be a console maker, which if this is true, pretty much contradicts what some people (whom i will not name) have said about nintendo. So really if this is true, then what you are saying is that Nintendo doesn't entirely suck, it's the companies that make the game.

Now if you say nintendo sucks as a console that's something different. Though i dont' see how you can really say that, seeing as GCN has graphics just as good as PS2, and some of x-box's games. Eh, most of this is to the extent of my knowledge, so i can be wrong about some things. if i am sorry.