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Sidenote: I know that beta 1.2 was ment for all new melee but I'll try anyway
Part I: Prelude
Over time, alot of complaints scour these forums. Some disgust it, some just don't like specific things, and so forth. They are pretty much based on the current melee system. This is why I'm creating this concept.
I understand that some didn't like the "renovation" so I thought of a possible solution that might balance things out a bit or two. To make a long story short, I thought of a new melee system.
===================================================================
Part II: What went wrong?
What went wrong? Not an easy question to answer, yet something did went wrong. People complained about arrows, that it involved no skill. Other's didn't like the simple melee and so on. Let's take a closer look about the complaints:
-the simple melee knockbacks, too short and too easy
-pressing arrows isn't skillful and it's boring
-teleport delay, who needs it anyway?
-swooping, some can't stand double tapping
-advanced melee is too slow
If they were minor problems, there would be no need for alarm, but these problems are the core of the current gameplay.
===================================================================
Part III : The new system
FIRST OF ALL: The second mouse button is exactly the same as it was in 1.1, the knockback distance, the speed, all the same, the only thing that should be different is the damage. Other than that, there is no more tele delay, look at the bottom of this page to see what might be a possibly solution for that problem.
I'll describe my ideas using several situations.
You're swooping at the opponent, and you connect. If you hold the left mouse button before you connect, you will do a fast throw. You grab his arm/head/leg, spin 1 or 2 times and throw him away. This will cost a pretty big amount of ki but lesser than the throw now and the enemy will also be thrown less far (charge-able maybe?). In any case, it should be fast so that you only have a few seconds to aim before automatically releasing your opponent.
Let's assume you're ssj so we don't have to worry about ki. The moment he is being thrown, I can use simple melee to hit him again or I can use advanced melee on him while he is still flying. I choose advanced melee. The prepunching starts and at the same time the player has to input his arrows so that when the prepunching is done, the moves will begin right after (in other words, no more annoying pauses). Of course this also means that the enemy player has to press/guess the arrows while being prepunched.
When the enemy has dodged the moves, both players will be sent flying back, so no more turn based crap. If you have enough ki, you may try to knock him back using advanced melee to add another simple melee hit. To prevent advanced melee being used 3 times in a row. The player cannot use advanced melee for a specific amount of time (if it is all a big combo, not normally) or has to use at least 1/2/3 simple melee hits before using advanced melee again in the combo chain. However, in a 2on1 your teammate is not restricted to the fact that you just did advanced melee, but if you look at the bottom of this post, you can see what will happen if you swoop someone in the back. If the enemy is stupid enough to turn around to land right into your face, you can spam advanced melee as much as you want.
But what if you start advanced melee before the player is actually hit? Or simply said, what if you use advanced melee like you would now? To keep things fast paced, it could be a grab and a headbutt or a kick to the stomach and a smash to the back, sending the player down. The knockback distance would be same as we have simple melee now. And to prevent it from being spammed, it could only be used 2 or 3 times though it would be possible to simple melee it even after the max hit has been reached, same goes for advanced melee. That way there are less pauses to slow things down. Perhaps that pressing left would knock him to the left etc.
Now for the blocking system. The simple throw I just made up could easily be used over and over. To prevent it from being spammed, the throw will be reversed when the enemy blocks. That way it will stay risky and youâd have to strike when the enemy isnât blocking.
When the enemy players blocks a simple new melee hit (the last one I mentioned) both players will hit eachother and a struggle will start. The animation shows that the players are sparring at a fast rate, but neither of them do damage. Not long after the sparring has started, the player who blocked gets the chance to input various arrows for the opponent to dodge. The same goes for the opponent, once that is done, both players will be knocked back unless one of them dies first.
Now, you might think blocking is overpowered and encouraged, but thatâs why we have 1.1 melee back in. In 1.0 you could hit right back when you blocked, in 1.1 it was tougher to do so.
There are now 3 possibilities to attack a player:
- simple 1.1 melee
- simple new melee
- short throw
what happens when you block?
- nothing, you will receive little damage and will not do a dramatic counter attack
- struggle, nothing too special or destructive (unless a hidden combo is used)
- counter throw, but less ki needed
That way, you can decide what risk you are going to take and what to avoid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When thrown into a wall, the player can again choose simple or advanced melee to hurt the enemy some more, but he has to be fast or the enemy might walljump away. I wonât make this too complicated, if you can nail a simple melee shot on someone in a wall, it will be no different, except that it will do a little more damage. When doing advanced melee, you start prepunching him, also, doing a little more damage when itâs over, you jump backwards a little. After one of this has been done, the victim still stuck in the wall will have a small time of invulnerability to escape. I donât mean 2 or 3 seconds, no, just enough to dodge. Maximum would be 1 second.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was discussing this concept with a couple of friends and we were thinking about all kinds of crazy stuff. But in the end we thought it could be fun.
When you advance melee someone in the back, you'll see an animation of you kicking or hitting that person in the back ,unless theyâre already being thrown or hit, (groin for the humans?) which takes about 5 hp max, then you can do 2 things.
* Grapple hold, you'll grapple him (full nelson style) and then you can swoop. While swooping you can press right mouse, to release him again, kind of like throwing only this time you're mobile and it takes a tad more ki (holding + swooping). It wouldn't be blockable or you couldn't get loose because you're pretty vulnerable when attack in the back. Only if the enemy has insufficient ki, you could revert the throw or simply stop him from swooping.
When it's 2v1, you could play with the enemy, but you'd have to be behind him and catch him when he is being thrown by your buddy. However, to balance it a bit, it would probably require a great deal of ki just to hold the enemy tight. Though you could make some nice stuff with it hehe.
== Buu cell and frieza could possibly use their tails or tentacle to grapple their enemies, perhaps even hit them in the back (frieza saga anyone). When they do, they'll grapple first and then start hitting afterwards unlike the others but will still do the same damage (1 hp per hit, 5 hits max).==
* Special move (only when they have 10 hp or less) sorta like a fatality from mortal kombat. Some characters would have a special finishing move.
Buu, absorb
Cell, absorb
Frieza, laser in the back/head ? or a disc? or strangle with the tail?
Gohan/goku, small kame?
trunks, chop him in pieces or simply sting his sword in someone, for extra gore, he'd decapitate him or even both
vegeta, break his neck (with a nice crackling sound of course) perhaps rip it off afterwards or something
krillin, destructo disc used as a chainsaw
piccolo, the same he did to babidi, use his hand to cut someone in half. Perhaps kick one half far away from the other or rip out his spine
Of course, cutting buu or cell into pieces would force them to regenerate, but since they can't yet... I donât see that as a big problem atm. Hehe, while you're at it, perhaps a nice sprite that'll say FATALITY and the voice along with it or am I getting a bit too carried away?
Either way, the effects of absorbing would be up to the team, becos I haven't really thought that out, most likely because this is just a bit too whacky for ESF but hey, who knows?.
========================================================
Cool moves
Just 4 random situations that could occur while playing
- Player 1 hits/kicks/throws another player to his teammate and he uses it to swoop in his back to initiate the grapple hold so he can throw the enemy into a wall.
- Player 1 grapples the enemy and swoops/throws him to his teammate. Player 2 tries to do a frontal swoop to start the prepunching, once he has done that he makes his moves and eventually kicks the enemy player to player 1 again. Player 1 swoops against his back and finishes the enemy with a special move.
- Player 1 is being attacked by an enemy player, and presses block at the last instant. He reverts his foeâs throw and uses it to toss him into an teammates beam/ball/bomb which happened to be close
- Player 1 is under assault by 2 enemies and in a quick move, he throws an enemy into the other, giving him time to charge up for full ki. When done, one of them attacks him but player 1 uses simple melee to pull of a 3 hit combo to finish the first one off. Iâll leave enemy 2 up to your imagination.
=======================================================
Part IV: Other stuff
As for the swooping system, there is nothing wrong with double tap imo, but others seem to prefer the old targeting manner. So I was thinking about the scouter and decided to convert it to swooping.
modes :
1. 1.1 swooping, clicking once targets, clicking again swoops
2. 1.2 swooping, double tap to swoop
3. mixed mode, clicking once targets, clicking again swoops, while double tap is also possible.
In case of mixed and 1.1 mode: when selecting a weapon other than melee, the only way to swoop is double tapping.
This way, the player has the choice to decide what he/she prefers and it isn't unfair, because you can easily switch ingame.
===================================================================
As for the tele's I've noticed that people worry about tele scripters and such (I don't understand why, they only waste their ki anyway) but they have an opinion too. This may have already been suggested, but possibly in a little different way.
Charging tele's
A simple press on the teleport button will do the same it does now, a teleport, same distance, same ki, nothing changes. Holding it will take more ki, but you can go further. In other words, you can press 2x teleport rapidly or you can hold it but the ki usage and distance is the same, the only thing that is different is that the second method is one teleport while the first method are 2.
Optional: when you charge a tele, you will see a charge bar, there will be several parts of the bar that will light up when it is reached. It will indicate how many teleports are charged. Something like this maybe?
(this is just a crappy example)
That way it'll be a little easier to determine how many teleâs youâre charging and the distance youâre about to cross.
The moment you press the teleport button, it will not charge right away, a minor delay time (like the current tele's delay) will stop that. Once that time is passed, the charging will commence. Because charging itself takes time, the longer you charge the faster it will go (including the draining on your kibar). When your ki is depleted and you have not teleported yet, you can teleport the distance you have charged or you can cancel it. Canceling will be done by pressing the charge up (for KI) key the same time the teleport is charging. That way, you'll just charge up (perhaps some of your ki return because you haven't really used it yet).
You can charge your teleport, while you are swooping, so that when you hit someone youâre tele is already charged and you can perform the combo easier. Makes everybody happy because we can still do it the way we used to.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see what I'm heading for here? Both old and new ways co-exist. This system also encourages teamplay because what is more tempting than grabbing someone from behind (no, not like that) to throw him into a wall. Especially if he isnât looking. You could get mad players because they donât like 2 on 1âs. But I believe that it is teamplay that made mods such as CS and NS so popular. If you work alone it gets boring after a while. I myself enjoy teamplay allot. Why do you think people want to be in clans? For the fun, the teamwork. Besides, if you want 1 on 1âs you know what you can do.
===================================================================
Part I: Prelude
Over time, alot of complaints scour these forums. Some disgust it, some just don't like specific things, and so forth. They are pretty much based on the current melee system. This is why I'm creating this concept.
I understand that some didn't like the "renovation" so I thought of a possible solution that might balance things out a bit or two. To make a long story short, I thought of a new melee system.
===================================================================
Part II: What went wrong?
What went wrong? Not an easy question to answer, yet something did went wrong. People complained about arrows, that it involved no skill. Other's didn't like the simple melee and so on. Let's take a closer look about the complaints:
-the simple melee knockbacks, too short and too easy
-pressing arrows isn't skillful and it's boring
-teleport delay, who needs it anyway?
-swooping, some can't stand double tapping
-advanced melee is too slow
If they were minor problems, there would be no need for alarm, but these problems are the core of the current gameplay.
===================================================================
Part III : The new system
FIRST OF ALL: The second mouse button is exactly the same as it was in 1.1, the knockback distance, the speed, all the same, the only thing that should be different is the damage. Other than that, there is no more tele delay, look at the bottom of this page to see what might be a possibly solution for that problem.
I'll describe my ideas using several situations.
You're swooping at the opponent, and you connect. If you hold the left mouse button before you connect, you will do a fast throw. You grab his arm/head/leg, spin 1 or 2 times and throw him away. This will cost a pretty big amount of ki but lesser than the throw now and the enemy will also be thrown less far (charge-able maybe?). In any case, it should be fast so that you only have a few seconds to aim before automatically releasing your opponent.
Let's assume you're ssj so we don't have to worry about ki. The moment he is being thrown, I can use simple melee to hit him again or I can use advanced melee on him while he is still flying. I choose advanced melee. The prepunching starts and at the same time the player has to input his arrows so that when the prepunching is done, the moves will begin right after (in other words, no more annoying pauses). Of course this also means that the enemy player has to press/guess the arrows while being prepunched.
When the enemy has dodged the moves, both players will be sent flying back, so no more turn based crap. If you have enough ki, you may try to knock him back using advanced melee to add another simple melee hit. To prevent advanced melee being used 3 times in a row. The player cannot use advanced melee for a specific amount of time (if it is all a big combo, not normally) or has to use at least 1/2/3 simple melee hits before using advanced melee again in the combo chain. However, in a 2on1 your teammate is not restricted to the fact that you just did advanced melee, but if you look at the bottom of this post, you can see what will happen if you swoop someone in the back. If the enemy is stupid enough to turn around to land right into your face, you can spam advanced melee as much as you want.
But what if you start advanced melee before the player is actually hit? Or simply said, what if you use advanced melee like you would now? To keep things fast paced, it could be a grab and a headbutt or a kick to the stomach and a smash to the back, sending the player down. The knockback distance would be same as we have simple melee now. And to prevent it from being spammed, it could only be used 2 or 3 times though it would be possible to simple melee it even after the max hit has been reached, same goes for advanced melee. That way there are less pauses to slow things down. Perhaps that pressing left would knock him to the left etc.
Now for the blocking system. The simple throw I just made up could easily be used over and over. To prevent it from being spammed, the throw will be reversed when the enemy blocks. That way it will stay risky and youâd have to strike when the enemy isnât blocking.
When the enemy players blocks a simple new melee hit (the last one I mentioned) both players will hit eachother and a struggle will start. The animation shows that the players are sparring at a fast rate, but neither of them do damage. Not long after the sparring has started, the player who blocked gets the chance to input various arrows for the opponent to dodge. The same goes for the opponent, once that is done, both players will be knocked back unless one of them dies first.
Now, you might think blocking is overpowered and encouraged, but thatâs why we have 1.1 melee back in. In 1.0 you could hit right back when you blocked, in 1.1 it was tougher to do so.
There are now 3 possibilities to attack a player:
- simple 1.1 melee
- simple new melee
- short throw
what happens when you block?
- nothing, you will receive little damage and will not do a dramatic counter attack
- struggle, nothing too special or destructive (unless a hidden combo is used)
- counter throw, but less ki needed
That way, you can decide what risk you are going to take and what to avoid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When thrown into a wall, the player can again choose simple or advanced melee to hurt the enemy some more, but he has to be fast or the enemy might walljump away. I wonât make this too complicated, if you can nail a simple melee shot on someone in a wall, it will be no different, except that it will do a little more damage. When doing advanced melee, you start prepunching him, also, doing a little more damage when itâs over, you jump backwards a little. After one of this has been done, the victim still stuck in the wall will have a small time of invulnerability to escape. I donât mean 2 or 3 seconds, no, just enough to dodge. Maximum would be 1 second.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was discussing this concept with a couple of friends and we were thinking about all kinds of crazy stuff. But in the end we thought it could be fun.
When you advance melee someone in the back, you'll see an animation of you kicking or hitting that person in the back ,unless theyâre already being thrown or hit, (groin for the humans?) which takes about 5 hp max, then you can do 2 things.
* Grapple hold, you'll grapple him (full nelson style) and then you can swoop. While swooping you can press right mouse, to release him again, kind of like throwing only this time you're mobile and it takes a tad more ki (holding + swooping). It wouldn't be blockable or you couldn't get loose because you're pretty vulnerable when attack in the back. Only if the enemy has insufficient ki, you could revert the throw or simply stop him from swooping.
When it's 2v1, you could play with the enemy, but you'd have to be behind him and catch him when he is being thrown by your buddy. However, to balance it a bit, it would probably require a great deal of ki just to hold the enemy tight. Though you could make some nice stuff with it hehe.
== Buu cell and frieza could possibly use their tails or tentacle to grapple their enemies, perhaps even hit them in the back (frieza saga anyone). When they do, they'll grapple first and then start hitting afterwards unlike the others but will still do the same damage (1 hp per hit, 5 hits max).==
* Special move (only when they have 10 hp or less) sorta like a fatality from mortal kombat. Some characters would have a special finishing move.
Buu, absorb
Cell, absorb
Frieza, laser in the back/head ? or a disc? or strangle with the tail?
Gohan/goku, small kame?
trunks, chop him in pieces or simply sting his sword in someone, for extra gore, he'd decapitate him or even both
vegeta, break his neck (with a nice crackling sound of course) perhaps rip it off afterwards or something
krillin, destructo disc used as a chainsaw
piccolo, the same he did to babidi, use his hand to cut someone in half. Perhaps kick one half far away from the other or rip out his spine
Of course, cutting buu or cell into pieces would force them to regenerate, but since they can't yet... I donât see that as a big problem atm. Hehe, while you're at it, perhaps a nice sprite that'll say FATALITY and the voice along with it or am I getting a bit too carried away?
Either way, the effects of absorbing would be up to the team, becos I haven't really thought that out, most likely because this is just a bit too whacky for ESF but hey, who knows?.
========================================================
Cool moves
Just 4 random situations that could occur while playing
- Player 1 hits/kicks/throws another player to his teammate and he uses it to swoop in his back to initiate the grapple hold so he can throw the enemy into a wall.
- Player 1 grapples the enemy and swoops/throws him to his teammate. Player 2 tries to do a frontal swoop to start the prepunching, once he has done that he makes his moves and eventually kicks the enemy player to player 1 again. Player 1 swoops against his back and finishes the enemy with a special move.
- Player 1 is being attacked by an enemy player, and presses block at the last instant. He reverts his foeâs throw and uses it to toss him into an teammates beam/ball/bomb which happened to be close
- Player 1 is under assault by 2 enemies and in a quick move, he throws an enemy into the other, giving him time to charge up for full ki. When done, one of them attacks him but player 1 uses simple melee to pull of a 3 hit combo to finish the first one off. Iâll leave enemy 2 up to your imagination.
=======================================================
Part IV: Other stuff
As for the swooping system, there is nothing wrong with double tap imo, but others seem to prefer the old targeting manner. So I was thinking about the scouter and decided to convert it to swooping.
modes :
1. 1.1 swooping, clicking once targets, clicking again swoops
2. 1.2 swooping, double tap to swoop
3. mixed mode, clicking once targets, clicking again swoops, while double tap is also possible.
In case of mixed and 1.1 mode: when selecting a weapon other than melee, the only way to swoop is double tapping.
This way, the player has the choice to decide what he/she prefers and it isn't unfair, because you can easily switch ingame.
===================================================================
As for the tele's I've noticed that people worry about tele scripters and such (I don't understand why, they only waste their ki anyway) but they have an opinion too. This may have already been suggested, but possibly in a little different way.
Charging tele's
A simple press on the teleport button will do the same it does now, a teleport, same distance, same ki, nothing changes. Holding it will take more ki, but you can go further. In other words, you can press 2x teleport rapidly or you can hold it but the ki usage and distance is the same, the only thing that is different is that the second method is one teleport while the first method are 2.
Optional: when you charge a tele, you will see a charge bar, there will be several parts of the bar that will light up when it is reached. It will indicate how many teleports are charged. Something like this maybe?
(this is just a crappy example)
That way it'll be a little easier to determine how many teleâs youâre charging and the distance youâre about to cross.
The moment you press the teleport button, it will not charge right away, a minor delay time (like the current tele's delay) will stop that. Once that time is passed, the charging will commence. Because charging itself takes time, the longer you charge the faster it will go (including the draining on your kibar). When your ki is depleted and you have not teleported yet, you can teleport the distance you have charged or you can cancel it. Canceling will be done by pressing the charge up (for KI) key the same time the teleport is charging. That way, you'll just charge up (perhaps some of your ki return because you haven't really used it yet).
You can charge your teleport, while you are swooping, so that when you hit someone youâre tele is already charged and you can perform the combo easier. Makes everybody happy because we can still do it the way we used to.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see what I'm heading for here? Both old and new ways co-exist. This system also encourages teamplay because what is more tempting than grabbing someone from behind (no, not like that) to throw him into a wall. Especially if he isnât looking. You could get mad players because they donât like 2 on 1âs. But I believe that it is teamplay that made mods such as CS and NS so popular. If you work alone it gets boring after a while. I myself enjoy teamplay allot. Why do you think people want to be in clans? For the fun, the teamwork. Besides, if you want 1 on 1âs you know what you can do.
===================================================================