New melee system

[Shogi]

* Grapple hold, you'll grapple him (full nelson style) and then you can swoop. While swooping you can press right mouse, to release him again, kind of like throwing only this time you're mobile and it takes a tad more ki (holding + swooping). It wouldn't be blockable or you couldn't get loose because you're pretty vulnerable when attack in the back. Only if the enemy has insufficient ki, you could revert the throw or simply stop him from swooping

Instead what could be done is give the holder two choices:

- do damage over time, like 5 damage for every second its held. holding them would work like a power struggle(red and blue bar)

- pile drive as seen in the series, done by double tapping crouch? dive bomb them into the ground (with smoke after effect) for say 15-20 damage.

 

[Jonesdaniel]

) pile drive as seen in the series, done by double tapping crouch? dive bomb them into the ground (with smoke after effect) for say 15-20 damage.

Maybe there could be a reversal to it too, so if you run out of KI because the other guy struggles back (like in a throw) the other guy can kick the guy off, and grab him. This way you'd have to be careful to how high up you are, and how much KI you have before you do it or something.

 

[Cold Steel]

Now that's something I allways wanted in the game. The divebomb. If the attack succeeds, half of the player model should stick in the ground.

 

[Carnage the 1]

Hehe indeed a good idea, I love it. Keep those ideas comming, the more the better.

 

[Krazy-Killa]

Now that's something I allways wanted in the game. The divebomb. If the attack succeeds, half of the player model should stick in the ground.

:laff: Upside down might I add! The Pile Drive would be an exciting and stragetic move to use.

The "lined" teleports, and new way of doing headons, sounds really interesting. Should be really cool to see in-game if added.

 

[Carnage the 1]

I'm just trying to get gameplay and graphics as close to the show without harming it, but thanks for liking it .

 

[Shogi]

*wishes ESF had pld* :shocked:

then u could have a huge crater....*sob*

 

[niobe]

to fly upside down is alway's the best way to play smooth, that's what i like the most about bfp.
keap making sugestions, in this rate can you make your own mod =p

 

[Shogi]

to fly upside down is alway's the best way to play smooth, that's what i like the most about bfp.
keap making sugestions, in this rate can you make your own mod =p

If BFP had ESF's melee system.....*drool*

 

[SSFT]

Charged teleport eh? well, as long as it keeps people from tele-meleeing others from the other side of the map and getting a cheap hit in.

Also about the slow down, before 1.2 people would hardly get a hit in, slow down makes it so fights are quicker (kinda weird how slowing things down makes fights faster, ill explain). In 1.1 people would swoop in circles for up to 6 minutes trying to hit eachother, and then it would repeat because 1 hit doesn't kill someone. Fights were really long, and when someone whored teleport, they took an eternity.

Carnage, you might have found it fun to get hit all over the place, (as you have said in another post) but I remember people complaining that the 1.1 melee was boring because they couldn't use it, or that it wasn't interesting enough, and that the fights took too long, just like people are now complaining about the 1.2 melee. Can you remember all the complaints about the 1.0 - 1.1 melee on the forums before 1.2 came out? Some people are never happy.

The problem with 1.1 melee is it was hard to become good with it when you were constantly getting pwned by people better than you. You don't get better at something by losing constantly. With 1.0/1.1 you were either really good or sucked.

The problem with 1.2 melee is it is too easy. Personally, I think they made it way too easy, the difficulty of becoming good at it should be somewhere between the 1.1 and 1.2 melee fighting. Any one can USE 1.2 melee effectively, as it should be, but it is impossible to become godly with it because it has limits.

It seems like to me that some people who were good with 1.1 melee (I was decent with it, could hold my own) won't adapt to the new melee. They aren't used to attacking, then suddenly get hurt themselves, and not being able to fight 3 "noobs" in a row without getting hurt, or killed. I think its a whole ego thing. (this got to me at first, but I got over it.)

"Simple" melee should be easier, and "advanced" melee should be harder to master, but seems a little backwards . It shouldn't be so easy to learn.

So back on topic, Carnage, I think you have found the perfect way to mix the 2, this would definately add to gameplay, might be a little complicated, but lots of fun :yes: :yes: :yes:

 

[ZTiMaStA]

off topic: rofl... you are joking with ur reply aren't u Do u have anny idea who u are talking too in the 1st place on topic: This melee system rocks the team has to look at this thread o-o

 

[Carnage the 1]

So back on topic, Carnage, I think you have found the perfect way to mix the 2, this would definately add to gameplay, might be a little complicated, but lots of fun :yes: :yes: :yes:

Thanks, but I might know something against those "mousewheelers or scripters"
I said in my first post that it doesn't matter if you charge 3 tele's or you do 3 tele's because ki consume and distance would be the same but read this:

When doing a teleport, there is an incredibly small time (1/100th a second?) that starts and ends. When using a script or mousewheel this would trigger it, not by pressing the button really fast. Whenever the second teleport starts withing that amount of time, 2x the ki being consumed. That way, if you wanted to use 4 tele's, you used the ki of 8 tele's. In other words, unless you're inhuman, you could never press the 2nd teleport twice within the time limit, unless you were using a script of mousewheel. That way the charged tele is only an addition.

"
off topic: rofl... you are joking with ur reply aren't u Do u have anny idea who u are talking too in the 1st place"

Even if he doesn't, you seem to be the only one who cares anyway.

"on topic: This melee system rocks the team has to look at this thread o-o"

I think the team can decide that for themselves... they don't HAVE to do anything.

 

[SSFT]

off topic: rofl... you are joking with ur reply aren't u Do u have anny idea who u are talking too in the 1st place on topic: This melee system rocks the team has to look at this thread o-o

Was that directed at me? Well, no, I have no clue who he is, or who you are either.

Carnage, I see what you mean, when you bind something, it all happenes at once, so true, any un-noticable delay, would break the bind.

 

[Ultima2_freeze]

I like alot of this. Altho...As for what "teleport" looks like. I think that's kinda wrong. I mean it got less and less visable the farther u went in the series (attributed to speed increase i'd presume)... :| Maybe there should be less and less of a "tele" afterimage the higher u go in the transformation list >_O

^^^ YES I FOUND A WAY TO PUT IN THE IDEA AGAIN ROAR!

 

[Carnage the 1]

I don't really know about that. I got the idea from watching cell and goku fight. Perfect cell would be pretty much the last transformation for him. I know that the after image is kinda sloppy in my concept, but I couldn't think of anything else to put it to good use. I saw another thread though that might help. But as always, if you think you know something better, don't hesitate to bring it up.

 

[Ultima2_freeze]

Well, altho he still had the 'swiped' effect on pretty much his last transformation..that doesn't mean that you see less and less tele after image as speed and pl go up. Take note of the buu saga... many times in that saga you would see the after effects of punches on an opponents body but NO image what so ever at times.

But the show doesn't follow the game chronologically... nor does it follow PL base. (altho the departure between the PLs is nicely set up) ... so i guess it could work either way.

 

[Pcjoe]

I understand the team isn't waiting for a new system, they just built one and redoing it will take a huge amount of time. IF they are going to use (parts of) this system, they shouldn't overrush, but instead put a part of it in every beta/patch. Of course I don't even know if they like it or not, let alone use it.

Post like these are encouraged, and I'm willing to create a new melee system after I finish the new transformation FX system... Assuming we get a solid idea that will actually work.
So first - props to your melee idea, I can see you put a lot of effort into this suggestion, it's appreciated ^_^
Acouple things I would like to point out about your idea...
You pointed out quite a few problems why beta 1.2 "went wrong", which I mostly agree with. Most of those problems are just meare annoyances though, and if that was it they could be easily fixed. The main problem is how uneffective 1.2 melee is. If you're not fighting a new player who didnt quite grasp the concept of blocking, using adv melee is next to useless. Also like SSFT stated

"Simple" melee should be easier, and "advanced" melee should be harder to master, but seems a little backwards. It shouldn't be so easy to learn.

This is pretty rediculous, you grow out of advanced melee into simple melee, it's completly contradicting its self. Your suggestion blends beta 1.1 melee and 1.2 pretty well, and I expecially like that grab, swoop, and let go + toss idea, but it still uses the core of the beta 1.2 melee system that so many people hate - random directions and rediculously easy blocking. It's nice to have the combat all stream together from prepunches to attacking with no wait time, but if the attacks are still uneffective, it's pointless. Personally, I'm leaning towards a live combat system, since I'm not seeing a way to get the current directional pre-charging method to work efficiently.

Charged teleporting... It's a great idea, but you're overlooking a slight aspect. If you're going to have this being chargable, that means the teleporting will only read once you take your finger off the key. If you think about it, this would be a small delay in its self, expecially when you're in those neck-breaking close melee encounters.
About the FX, I have no clue how I would even begin to accomplish that. If anything, it would have to be an Open GL-only effect that distorted the rendered image of the player (which i still dont know how to do >_>).

When doing a teleport, there is an incredibly small time (1/100th a second?) that starts and ends. When using a script or mousewheel this would trigger it, not by pressing the button really fast. Whenever the second teleport starts withing that amount of time, 2x the ki being consumed. That way, if you wanted to use 4 tele's, you used the ki of 8 tele's. In other words, unless you're inhuman, you could never press the 2nd teleport twice within the time limit, unless you were using a script of mousewheel. That way the charged tele is only an addition.

This wouldn't work to well. For example, lets say you have 250 ping. You might press teleport 3 times with a 0.1 second delay, but due to your lag, they all get sent to the server at the same time, and you get punished with x6 KI cost. It's also pretty easy to put delays in scripts so they can wait the extra .01 of a second.

 

[Ultima2_freeze]

See... the green man responds to ideas with alot of thought >_O. People expect the team to answer and reply to "i want a better melee system" threads.

Just goes to show ya the team does reply

 

[Carnage the 1]

I'm still trying to think of a new avanced melee system but it's hard to come up with something that isn't too hard to use but not too simple either. If you can give me some guidelines of what you guys like to see, it might help me come up with something.

The blocking concept might be a little overpowered, I'll try to think of something more balanced, but I can't really do that until I know of a new advanced melee.

You said you were "leaning towards a live combat system". I don't fully understand that, an explanation would be nice.

Other than that, thanks and good luck with 1.3.

 

[Pcjoe]

See... the green man responds to ideas with alot of thought >_O. People expect the team to answer and reply to "i want a better melee system" threads.

Just goes to show ya the team does reply

\o/ Damn strait

I'm still trying to think of a new avanced melee system but it's hard to come up with something that isn't too hard to use but not too simple either. If you can give me some guidelines of what you guys like to see, it might help me come up with something.

Someone that sees our hardships ^_^ That's one of the main problems, we don't really know how we can create a ballanced/fun melee system that remains playable at decent ping rates. I guess at this point we'll need to develop a system that works 'okay' with players at ~150 ping, and above that (most likely dail up) would have to guess and be at a disadvantage. We dont really have any guidelines, just as long as it's possible.

You said you were "leaning towards a live combat system". I don't fully understand that, an explanation would be nice.

Sure. What I ment to say is that we're leaning towards a system that works in in real time, rather then having queued up moves. You press punch, the player punches - compaired to the current system that you would probably find in a RPG. This also goes with what I said before, the system isn't going to be as friendly to players with higher ping... At this point that can't really be helped anymore.
My main reasoning behind this is that it doesnt seem it's possible to experience the thrill / fast action of DBZ by just by pressing a series of buttons that is later executed. It makes the gameplay extremly linear, and it limits what you can do. Sonic and myself were brainstorming a month or two ago about a new melee system, and we came up with some ideas. One idea we (well mostly him, I was just kinda sitting there nodding ^_^) came up with is to place players that engage in a melee combat in a 'battle sphere'. While players are inside of this sphere, the physics would slightly change, and the players movements would become relitive to each other. If others went inside of this battle sphere, they could join the fight as well. We also planned out various ways to attack / dodge attacks, it wasn't too bad of an idea...
So yeah, enough elaborating ^_^

Other than that, thanks and good luck with 1.3.

Thanks, we'll probably need it