New Map System Revealed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Base belongs to me.
πŸ‘‘ Administrator
🌠 Staff
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
πŸ’ŽLΓ©géñdārΓ½
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
10,844
Best answers
0
As many of you already know we switched the whole map system of the Half Life engine to something else. This update is there to tell you about the basic changes to in game maps.

We are now using VBOs (Vertex Buffer Objects) to boost performance due to loading an increased amount of polygons. Vertex Buffer Object is an OpenGL extension that provides methods for uploading data (vertex, normal vector, color, etc) to the video device for non-immediate-mode rendering.

The most notable change due to this system is that we no longer use standard Half Life BSP files for our maps. While these files are still necessary to get the map recognized by the game itself and added to the map list, we are only using blanks. Meaning the BSP files are all an empty box with no entities at all. Instead of BSP files we are now using model files in the OBJ format.

OBJ files are used to represent 3D geometry data in form of the position of each vertex, the UV position of each texture coordinate vertex, normals, and the faces that make each polygon defined as a list of vertices, texture vertices, and normals as well as material settings. Therese material settings can be used to give certain material properties to in game objects allowing them to be rendered differently. You can set things like defuse colors, specular lighting terms, etc.

Due to these changes we were able to make the quality of the maps a lot better. So instead of being limited by standard Half Life BSP file limits which were round 2000 visible brushes, we now have a max limit of 70,000 polygons which allows us to make terrain a lot smoother and more detailed than standard Half Life ever could.

<center>Old file format
<a href="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate1.jpg" rel="prettyPhoto[ESF]"><img src="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate1small.jpg"></a>

New file format
<a href="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate2.jpg" rel="prettyPhoto[ESF]"><img src="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate2small.jpg"></a>
</center>

Using this system also allows us to use other benefits of modeling such as normal maps for an even higher quality of the textures on the maps.

<center>
<a href="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate3.jpg" rel="prettyPhoto[ESF]"><img src="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate3small.jpg"></a>
<a href="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate4.jpg" rel="prettyPhoto[ESF]"><img src="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/mapupdate4small.jpg"></a>
</center>

With the maps more detailed and since we lost the restrictions of the old BSP file format we were able to drastically increase the size of the maps themselves. While the old system allowed the maximal size of a box map to be ( 8192 x 8192 x 8192 ) we are now facing an unlimited size in the maps. Meaning that the only limit is how far the player is actually prepared to fly. So you can fly in a direction for 3 hours and you'd still be going forward if you wished to.

<center>Map size comparison
<a href="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/Compare.jpg" rel="prettyPhoto[ESF]"><img src="http://esforces.com/uploads/images/news/15-11-2009/Compare-thumb.jpg"></a>

Of course the new format also has its own limitations. Since the entire OBJ model is rendered at once on the graphics card this means that no matter where you are the entire map is being rendered at once. Meaning that even if we can move into one direction for a long time we would reach the end of the map due to the polygon limit. So we decided that the mappers themselves would have to limit the maps by using a box or other shape, in combination with the XSPR files featured in an earlier update to get certain animated texture effects.

 
Last edited:
NOT IN THE MANGAβ„’
β˜… Black Lounger β˜…
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
3,276
Best answers
0
Unlimited map size ROFLMAO. Imagine if all DBZ characters were given the speed that they had in real DBZ and let's say the team created a Namek planet map (you just create some huge ball with water and then add some islands to it).

Is creating a map now harder?
 
Misanthropist
🌠 Staff
🌈 Beta Tester
β˜… Black Lounger β˜…
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
1,402
Best answers
1
Only harder in that you can make it more complex. You have so much more capability now.
 
Member
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
🎈 Advanced
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
289
Best answers
0
ESF:Final its geting better and better :)
 
Pwns Mastasurf at TF2
Retired Forum Staff
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
5,115
Best answers
0
Unlimited map size ROFLMAO. Imagine if all DBZ characters were given the speed that they had in real DBZ and let's say the team created a Namek planet map (you just create some huge ball with water and then add some islands to it).

Is creating a map now harder?
Only as hard as working in Max or another 3d studio program.
 
New Member
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
4,765
Best answers
0
Then again, if I understand correctly, making too complex maps would probably be a pretty big resource hog, if the entire map is being rendered at the same time. Needless to say, I would assume we will see some amazing community made maps this way (among the ESF created maps of course).
 
Last edited:
Base belongs to me.
πŸ‘‘ Administrator
🌠 Staff
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
πŸ’ŽLΓ©géñdārΓ½
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
10,844
Best answers
0
Heh, unlimited map size would be great for those RPG mods such as The Specialists RPG.
 
Freelance Mappzor
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Then again, if I understand correctly, making too complex maps would probably being a pretty big resource hog, if the entire map is being rendered at the same time. Needless to say, I would assume we will see some amazing community made maps this way (among the ESF created maps of course).
Thats why the polygon limit.

If we limit it to 70k polygons it shouldnt be to hard THX to the use of VBOs.

Atleast i can play most stuff with FPS abbove 50 and thatas now when not everything is even polished yet ^^
 
Everyone's Favorite Weirdo :D
🌠 Staff
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Dec 31, 2001
Messages
1,423
Best answers
0
hehe, the maps right now are soo beautiful.... the mappers add soo many cool things to their maps now... its amazing.

Like they said above.. if you can use a 3d modelling program, you can create a map. And MUCH MUCH larger... before they added that boundary box in their maps.. for example in that image above of ESF city.. it took about 5 minutes to get to those outer floating islands, lol... yeah.. they're THAT FAR.

but with knowing that we had to fly THAT FAR to get to and island, you can understand why we purposely limit the playing area... so you guys dont have to fly 5 minutes to a battle and die.. then fly 5 minutes to get to it again...
 
New Member
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
1,172
Best answers
0
Absolutely ****ing amazing. I love the way the inside Buu map looks with that animation.
 
Pwns Mastasurf at TF2
Retired Forum Staff
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
5,115
Best answers
0
Then again, if I understand correctly, making too complex maps would probably be a pretty big resource hog, if the entire map is being rendered at the same time. Needless to say, I would assume we will see some amazing community made maps this way (among the ESF created maps of course).
We're also working on some tricks to increase performance atm.
 
New Member
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
4,765
Best answers
0
Just out of curiosity, what is the average filesize of a map nowadays?
 
Member
🎈 Advanced
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
64
Best answers
0
Of course the new format also has its own limitations. Since the entire OBJ model is rendered at once on the graphics card this means that no matter where you are the entire map is being rendered at once.
This doesn't have to be the case. If you segment the map into sub-objects and implement an octree scheme, you can reap very simple and natural camera-visibility benefits overall. Using primitive occluders for each of these separate sub-objects would additionally help to optimize performance greatly (although this wouldn't be as drastic on an outdoor map as much as an inside one).

You mention that the entire map is being rendered at once. What method are you using to invoke a single draw call / batch? Texture atlasing/grids or something else perhaps?
 
Last edited:
New Member
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
1,462
Best answers
0
but with knowing that we had to fly THAT FAR to get to and island, you can understand why we purposely limit the playing area... so you guys dont have to fly 5 minutes to a battle and die.. then fly 5 minutes to get to it again...
Yeah...
Actually this is a concern of mine.
Unless the mappers put spawn points in relative proximity, it's going to
get tiring chasing down people who like to run from fights.

I say make the main spawn area around that giant spire, or frieza's ship...
something of a landmark so people can find each other.

Maybe you guys can do something cheesy like Battlefield 1942...
When players leave the boundaries of the map, have a random beam come from no where and kill them!


...There go the days of wall bouncing and ceiling hits.
 
Last edited:
Force Pit Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
994
Best answers
0
hehe, the maps right now are soo beautiful.... the mappers add soo many cool things to their maps now... its amazing.

Like they said above.. if you can use a 3d modelling program, you can create a map. And MUCH MUCH larger... before they added that boundary box in their maps.. for example in that image above of ESF city.. it took about 5 minutes to get to those outer floating islands, lol... yeah.. they're THAT FAR.

but with knowing that we had to fly THAT FAR to get to and island, you can understand why we purposely limit the playing area... so you guys dont have to fly 5 minutes to a battle and die.. then fly 5 minutes to get to it again...
I am actually pro-limitless maps. It just gives that feeling of a real fight, where there is no invisible wall to block you. Especially in the simple melee blowback. I mean cmon, THIS WOULD BE INTENSE, so real!

WE MUST HAVE A FULL SIZE PLANET MAP!
no wait, that is too ambitious.

a chase fight would be fricking awesome in this maps.

But like that planet pic sky posted, that is pretty much enough. It would be awesome to find an island out of nowhere and throw someone on it, and intense sea battles. GIVE ME
 
Project Manager
🌠 Staff
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Messages
1,729
Best answers
0
This doesn't have to be the case. If you segment the map into sub-objects and implement an octree scheme, you can reap very simple and natural camera-visibility benefits overall. Using primitive occluders for each of these separate sub-objects would additionally help to optimize performance greatly (although this wouldn't be as drastic on an outdoor map as much as an inside one).

You mention that the entire map is being rendered at once. What method are you using to invoke a single draw call / batch? Texture atlasing/grids or something else perhaps?
My fellow team mates didn't really pay attentions to the whole concept. It's not really rendered everything at once. Of course there are multiple index buffer and culling as well as a Level of Details system to optimize the overall performance... anyways we are improving the system while we work with it, the release version may differ from what there is now.
 
Active Member
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
1,329
Best answers
0
the mapper can make a huge map(world map) with diferent place for fight.?
like the map where goku and vegete fight with buu , or make a real world city....wow sound cool. one map with diferen places.
great update!
 
Freelance Mappzor
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
πŸ’» Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Just so you know. That size comparison picture in there is a render. The map itself is still flat as the gravity is still direction based and not point.

It just looked better like that XD
 
Member
πŸš‚ Steam Linked
🎈 Advanced
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
259
Best answers
0
Amazing job so far, grats to the team ^^

i just wonder, will the final version have really small explosions too like the other versions?
i know the problem was because the whole explosion could kill everyone in almost the entire map, but now that the maps are bigger, will it still be the same?
 
Legerdemain Cheese Spread
Banned
βœ”οΈ HL Verified
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
665
Best answers
0
this is the most epices BEST MOD EVER!!! ESF:Final Just Gets Better And Better And Amazing And More Amazing AND EPIC AND MORE EPIC AND EPICEST Awsome! The Map Textures Are AMAZING.Unlimited Map Size Ehh? Intresting Now we can fly around so much and flying so much haveing fun..Good Work Team And Good Luck On ESF v1.3 Final


From Mous4u
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top