Resting in H.E.L.L
Banned
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- Dec 1, 2009
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That's very true. I'd suggest a new player learn the ropes in TDM or FFA before taking on the Big Bad Wolf that's the fun in this mode. It's called 'Boss' mode for a reason. You wouldn't march straight to Sephiroth (insert any final RPG boss here) at level 1 even if you could, would you? People gain 'Levels' in this game by training their skills. You need skills, team work, and strategy to beat and to BE the boss. But from my experience from when this game was popular... There's only like 1-2 fighters per server which clearly surpass all others using the techniques they've learned through hard training. The boss having advantages is MANDATORY though, as he is expected to be able to take on an entire room of foes single-handed which requires a great deal of focus in and of itself.First off, I object to your 'lost in an epic way' comment in the first paragraph. How would it be epic what so ever? It'd just be the boss flying about, someone approaches him, he owns them, and beckons the next opponent.
The game does, factually, have a high skill ceiling, with a very steep learning curve. That means, a lot of beginners would simply get murdered by someone with more HP, greater attack damage, and faster speed.
Uhh, remind me how I insulted him again, lol? I thought we were having a civil debate here. My sights are focused on developing this idea with the help of all you fine people, I hold no grudges.And as for you insulting Grega's argument as it is, it is obvious that this game mode specifically gives the better player an extreme advantage. It gives it MOBA syndrome - the good players just completely dominate all the newbies. However, in standard TDM mode, the good players do, in fact, give a slight advantage to the team - but in turn, when the opposing team is stronger, the weaker team will get stronger more quickly, thus balancing out.
But anyways, the better player will always have the advantage no matter what game you're talking about, but if a superb player gets the boss, people only need to do at least 20 damage to break even (meanwhile his allies still heal)... BUT the number '20' for HP recovered per kill is totally negotiable and we can change it to, say, 10, if that's what the majority of folks here would agree to be more balanced (since his health does scale up according to the number of players joined).
And yeah, we do still have that power level balancing system in place here because if the boss's power level is multiplied by 3 then weaker players will in fact get more benefits for landing hits on him. But remember, a new boss player is chosen at the end of the round, so it's not going to be constant nonstop domination.
Are you proposing we should reduce the number of HP gained per kill to.... 10 instead of 20? 20 did seem a little bit high to me, BUT imagine an average player as the Boss, fighting equally (or better) skilled opponents. He will NEED this health bonus to survive the waves of enemies. In every game you'll ever play with a Survival mode in it, the player HAS to receive health for completing waves in order to keep the game going. This is mandatory, but the number itself is arbitrary.If you have a better player here, he is going to own them with a greater character in all respects, both artificially and skillfully, and even get back up to max HP. I mean, say you have B, the boss, against SP, standard player. Say the boss is good at the game - to prevent you yelling back at me "No, that wouldn't happen, because it isn't that unbalanced, and whinewhinewhine!". The boss is going to zip around the player, basic melee will do what - 20 DMG per hit? With the average 2x Basic Meleé, you're gonna get 40 HP every time B scores a hit, and with the average character HP max of about 100 or so, that means that with only 5 basic meleé hits, SP is gonna be dead, and B is going to have a HP bonus, to completely negate the 5 HP or so of damage that SP could do with a basic melee hit.
I know from experience in gaming here that if you give people incentive to play other characters (ala Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast) then the replay value for said game increases tenfold! (in that game, literally, lol.) If we had a choice, we'd probably just stick with our favorite 1 or 2 characters... but if there were incentive to branch out and try others, and learn to like them, we'd all play this game for a much longer time and discover new fun in the process! It ALSO would detract from 'Uber players' dominating the server with their favorite characters (unless they get the Boss of course, which quite frankly is BETTER than having 3 extremely skilled players all on the other team of fighters in terms of balance.)Also, you seem to be taking the direct wording of Grega's post and either grammar nazing them to make them sound stupid, or just deliberately misrepresenting them. He meant, as I'm sure you know, that this is not a RP game. Each of these characters don't represent the very 'character', they represent the play style of each character. From my experience with the game, Krillin is focused on melee, and Buu is focused on Ki attacks. When have you ever actually seen anyone Role playing on a good old server of ESF 1.2.3? No one selected Goku and started quoting him, or playing sound board clips, unless it was a planned event. Also, for the not noticing the difference between SSJ Goku and Krillin. Basically, either you're not good at this game and don't use the 'G' button, or even double tap W as Goku, heck, have you even seen the gameplay demos for ESF:Final? Take the game play videos - they dance around one another with the melee thing. You can hardly tell one from the other if you're gonna be at any sort of distance from them. There's a lot of clustering around one another. Not to mention all the dust explosions and what not, it'll be hectic as fck.
Thanks for recognizing the challenges we face! I know from watching the development of World of Warcraft's update patches over the years, that new ideas are tried and then balanced accordingly, so we've just got to find a happy ballpark here with good concepts, and then it will be up to the team to tweak it to an exact balanced number. I will increase HP regen to 2 per 10 second instead.For the health regen thing, the boss will easily dispatch 20 HP in a single basic melee hit, like i mentioned before. That means that the boss can set the team back 40 seconds in one hit. Not very balanced. And then if you increase the health regen, it'll be unbalanced again. This is indeed quite the conundrum we have here, the only thing I can think of is to take away the whole hp regen feature.
That's what I'm saying. I proposed the boost in Power level in order to allow him to ascend to the next level much sooner than anyone else, thus maintaining his mechanical advantage. I do feel that he should maintain his superiority, but, everyone wants standard players to be able to transform... So, if the boss has increased health pool, health regen per kill, AND increased power level (thus beam superiority) AND the ability to damage other SP's with collateral damage.... Are not these enough to maintain his superiority in the battlefield? Maybe not, once enough players transform, but at THAT point the boss should be able to ascend to level 3. It's got to be balanced in such a way that the boss can always transform 1 level higher than everyone else....... The only thing worries me is the rate at which others could leech power level off of him. Perhaps this can be tweaked some how. Or perhaps we shouldn't tweak it, and perhaps the server should simply restart once every 1 hour in order to reset balance in all players.Also, how would a boost in PL help anything? That would just be awful. The boss is meant to start out as SSJ. Fine. No respawns. Fine. SSJ transformations of all the SPs out there. Fine. Boost in PL? No. Because speed and HP does not revolve around PL, but rather transformation, it would boost each SP up to 80% of the boss, or there about. That almost equals a 1v1 match, and is that really balanced? Sure, the boss could hit harder, but would he be able to hit?
We're not entirely sure that beams are not being given boosts using the new SAM system which could make them viable methods for quickly turning a foe to ashes. There's variables here which we have no info on yet... But in regards to power level, it also allows a fighter to simply swat away the strong beams of most opponents.As for the thing about beams, as the great sage --BOT-- Skyrider puts it, "melee > beams". How many times have you seen someone use nothing but beams? Okay? How many times have you seen someone use nothing but melee? And so that proves my point.
I guess that's why I'm the spokesperson for bad ideas! Lol. No but seriously, I really do value everyone's input to ensure balance in this mode. Civil debates like this one and others are highly constructive. I'm the queen bee here trying to get everyone to work together whether they know it or not so thanks to everyone here for posting.Also, I think of ideas, but before I post them, I realize that they are indeed terrible, terrible unbalanced pieces of fck. I'm afraid that you don't do the same thing, while revising your own work.
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