Melee Overview Discussion

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The quick beam attack is instant. It's just not powerful as a fully charged beam but it blows your enemy away so you have some time to recharge to attack again.

Also I am still thinking of any mechanics that utilizes the mouse more.
 
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Anglehits. They utilise the mouse preety much a lot.

Especially since its a technique that requires quick reactions and good aiming.
 
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Err what are angel hits? I've never heard of that in dragonball z.
 
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Err what are angel hits? I've never heard of that in dragonball z.
Anglehits. Preety much the most important thin in ESF.

Basically when you and a player both fly against each other. YOu can fly a bit to the side and then make a sharp turn to hit him on the side. That way there is no head on. Instead you hit him with him not hitting you.

Its because only the front side of a player can be used to attack. And if you evade the front and hit his side. You get the hit instead of a headon.

In a skematic it looks something like this:

 
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Ok uhh how bout this idea?

It's basically like simple melee but you need a lot more timing because instead of holding the left click you would have to time it right when hitting him but when your first swooping at him you can just hold it. You would just have to time it right after the first time you melee him. Also there will be a hint to when the right timing is good for instance when you're close the enemy will flash for a brief second. There would be 3 different color flashes to tell how much damage you will inflict on the opponent.

This is the order from weakest to strongest Red, Yellow , Green. So it would say like too early, almost, and perfect on the screen.

Of course when you're swooping at him your don't have to hold forward so its auto swoop. So you can still do angel hits by holding left for right to sway around him.

This is what the chain would be like.

Swoop > Simple Melee > Auto-Swoop > Timed Melee > Auto-Swoop > Timed Melee > and so on.

Crappy Diagram.
 
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And how does ping over 100 cut into the equasion of timed button presses. Cause the hold mouse 2 key is there because it doesnt require a really low ping to do it. The same reason iw shy realtime melee fails in online games.

Allso what if i dont want to swoop after the hit. What if i want to recharge, teleport or just stay round and look at him instead?
 
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And how does ping over 100 cut into the equasion of timed button presses. Cause the hold mouse 2 key is there because it doesnt require a really low ping to do it. The same reason iw shy realtime melee fails in online games.

Allso what if i dont want to swoop after the hit. What if i want to recharge, teleport or just stay round and look at him instead?
Guess I forgot to mention that Grega. So yes you can stop the chain after YOU successfully attacked the opponent. If the enemy is attacking you, there is no you way can run away.

Unless you press block at the right time against the enemy. It would be the same like when you attack someone except the enemy would flash to tell you when its the right time to block.

There are certain rules though like if both players get a perfect the defender win. If you time it more right than the other player you win it. But if the attacker would get a perfect and you get early or almost the attacker would have another change to attack. The damage would be of course will be lower the better you time it right.

So for example if both players get perfect. Damage is inflicted 1/4 of the total. If you were to get a perfect and the defender gets an early. Damage is 1/2. Then also if they didn't block damage is full.

I've seen many online games that utilizes timing correctly with lag and they haven't caused any problem.
 
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Do they have ESFs speed?

Cause as far as i remember i dont know any games where 0.5 seconds could be the difference betwean life and death.
 
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Smash brothers, but that's a console game that has no lag.

Dunno if this has been suggested yet but has anyone considered keeping this really simple just like the OP? DragonballZ fistfights seemed to help address a difference in power levels since even far weaker people could put a hurting on someone if they got some hits in and physically seemed to revolve around 3 basic things:

1. Using someone's face to remodel the landscape
2. Exchanging or giving lots of blows really quickly with little movement
3. Knocking someone a shorter distance away to set up for doing it again or #1/#2 or an energy attack.

I think we're all overthinking this by a pretty big margin and the best/most dynamic but least ping/fps dependant melee would be a really simple system that primarily revolves around rearranging physical positions or dealing with massive differences in power levels rather than ALWAYS undercutting the use of energy attacks. Think of it like a firstperson and 3d version of smash brothers. Some things have priority over others, excepting throws players have some control over how quickly they recover and their direction/distance of knockback, and some things counter others.

That in mind and considering the last few pages of discussion methinks seperating melee into mouse aimed throws for sending people REALLY far or burying them into the landscape to set up for an energy attack, strong single hits for sending someone just far enough that if they didn't block it to mitigate the hit and recover faster you can keep going or charge up a weaker energy attack (or get behind via teleport for a throw?), and sticking in someone's face to do combo hits.

Organized wall of text (sorry):

Basic
Aimed by angling just like it can now
Sends someone progressively longer distances away, they recover faster (but keep flying away) if they hit block after being hit
Two meeting Basics knocks both back but with less damage and fast recovery
A blocked basic can turn into a mutual combo otherwise the blocked player bounces back some, the blocking player bounces back farther but can stop any time
Basic meeting a combo turns into a combo
No lag time TO blocking from holding the mouse, some when coming back
Builds the SAM the slowest
Can be done on someone in a PS but attacker takes "feedback" damage

Throw
Can only be done on recovering opponents or when dominating a combo
Aimed with the mouse
Sends someone much farther, buries them in landscape longer than any Basic
Throws comboed into energy attacks build the SAM faster than basics
Throws as part of a combo from basics or combos build the SAM faster still
Can't be done on someone in a PS or behind a beam attack

Combo
Isn't aimed
Works like a tossup between current pre-melee and a powerstruggle
Clean hits give the comboing player a certain time of free attacking
Drains health and ki from players taking hits, some ki from attacker
Meeting combos work like a powerstruggle, higher PL takes dominance over time but still loses decent HP
If blocked the blocking player block-struggles it, higher PL takes dominance slower but loses more ki than HP
Builds SAM the fastest
Dominating player can switch to basic or throw the dominated player


Doing it like ^^that would maintain the higher PL player's advantage while still giving lower PL players a way of attacking to gain PL and the like without being totally curbstomped every time. It would also give all players at least 3 choices as to whether to continue meleeing, set up an energy attack as a combo, or get the hell out of there somehow.
 
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You guys really need an update XD
 
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Do they have ESFs speed?

Cause as far as i remember i dont know any games where 0.5 seconds could be the difference betwean life and death.
Getting headshots in online games, Marval vs Capcom via mame. (yes thats pretty ****ing fast when you look at fighters like wolverine.) Alot of games that use timing add alot to a game. It can be done but the only thing is that you cant have EU on america servers, vice versa.

The game truly does need more button timing based things, it adds from that "auto-play" feel things like "pre-punches" did.
 
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Overview is finally updated. Have fun, kids.
 
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Grab and Smash was never in 1.2, and there was never anything similar to it in 1.2.
 
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I would like to see the ability to hit people who are layed out on the ground. Say they are recovering and swoop down and knee them in the stomach.

Also with GAS, would I be able to grab someone and fly down, sending them into the ground and jump away before hitting the ground?
 
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sounds like brollies kinda game...:D
like the concept...xD
a question lets say goku grabs vegeta and swoops forward...and trunks grabs gohan, and if gohan lets go of trunks and goku lets go of vegeta and the two slinged poor souls collide...do we get to see some damage and blood?
 
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Also with GAS, would I be able to grab someone and fly down, sending them into the ground and jump away before hitting the ground?
Yup, its like a throw when you let go.
 
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to sum up my question..is a player's body also a factor in damage :p if you throw someone into someone else
 

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