Latest ver. SuperMAN vs. Super SAIYAN...A match?

[Skiwan]

Using your logic, Goku sucks in close combat. He's never one a single fight using melee in all of DBZ. Why is that?

You need to read dragonball, i think nearly every fight he won in that was close combat (not to mention thats what 99% of the fighting was)

Just pointin that out, i've left my stain in this arguement.

 

[Zeonix]

I said DBZ . Superman isn't fighting Kid Goku, unless you guys want him to, of course.

 

[Kreshi]

He's fought Darkseid, and has won. Darkseid is basically a Demonic God.

Using your logic, Goku sucks in close combat. He's never one a single fight using melee in all of DBZ. Why is that?

Goku never used melee in all of DBZ? wtf?... did you really read the manga or saw the anime .

Your darkside is a demonic GOD? Piccolo was also once called a God =/...

BTW both losed badly in a melee battle against doomsday =/
Supermans melee skills sucked all the time.
though i don?t understand 1 thing... how can he destroy a solar system by sneezing? =/...
That?s totally impossible, because his power source is the sun and a solar system = sun+ohter planets

And if Goku normal is able to destroy a planet ~10x as earth, than Goku SSJ3 should be easily able to destroy the whole sun.
And someone who can destroy the sun have to be stronger then someone who gets his super powers from the sun.

 

[Skiwan]

I dunno, maybe he'd still be a match =P but i was just saying, he has a hell of a lot of fighting experience, started when he was a child, he's beaten all kinds of opponents, so it does count for something, he also beat a few in dbz, nappa, recoome, etc, just none of the main villians.

 

[Zeonix]

Goku never used melee in all of DBZ? wtf?... did you really read the manga or saw the anime .

Your darkside is a demonic GOD? Piccolo was also once called a God =/...

BTW both losed badly in a melee battle against doomsday =/
Supermans melee skills sucked all the time.
though i don?t understand 1 thing... how can he destroy a solar system by sneezing? =/...
That?s totally impossible, because his power source is the sun and a solar system = sun+ohter planets

And if Goku normal is able to destroy a planet ~10x as earth, than Goku SSJ3 should be easily able to destroy the whole sun.
And someone who can destroy the sun have to be stronger then someone who gets his super powers from the sun.

First, I said Goku didn't beat anyone in DBZ with melee (yeah, yeah, he beat radditz and recoome. Big deal.) He always threw a million punches and then stopped and talked for 30 minutes. Then he'd have to charge some kind of energy attack because his melee attacks weren't strong enough to overpower his opponent.

Second, Superman knocked Doomsday out at the same time Doomsday knocked Superman out. If anyone won, it was Superman because Cyborg Superman strapped Doomsday to an asteroid and threw him into deep space. I don't remember Doomsday ever beating Darkseid even though he, too, survived Darkseid's laser. Don't forget that Doomsday came from the same planet as Superman and is actually physically stronger. Does this make Darkseid weak? **** no. It means that if Superman can beat Darkseid, so can Doomsday because they both come from the same place and have similar powers. If they're both strong enough to defeat someone who could be considered a God (And happens to be supremely superior to Piccolo or any of the DBZ "gods"), then that really means something. It says something about the power they wield.

Third, stop trying to rationalize **** that happens for no reason in a comic book. Its there because they want to show you how powerful he actually is.

Goku doesn't have the power to blow up a star. I doubt anyone other than Galactus-type beings can destroy stars. Superman gets his power from the Sun, not because he's weak, but because its in his genetics. He's solar powered and can maintain his charge for quite some time (Doomsday is solar powered too and can maintain his charge for 1000 years. He also doesn't need to eat or sleep ever.)

Goku is an experienced fighter. I'll give him that. He just doesn't have the raw physical power to defeat Superman. Raw physical strength is Superman's department. Goku has energy attacks, but unless he wants to quickly throw energy that wouldn't even hurt Piccolo, he'd have to remain stationary and charge. This is the reason why I say Superman would win. The fight would end up being a brawl. Yes, Goku knows how to kick and punch and knows kung fu. Awesome. But he doesn't have the strength to actually damage Superman with those attacks, so it renders them useless. If Goku could, say, charge his most powerful attack in 1 second and have time to fire it at Superman, I think he might stand a chance. But he doesn't.

 

[Kreshi]

if you take supermans the far-fetched abilities u took from wikipedia, then i will also take the far fetched abilities of goku:

1. Master Roshi can destroy the moon with a standard Kame
2. Goku normal (end of db saga) can kill master Roshi with 1 strong punch
3. Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta (10x as big as earth) in his first form with a deathball
4. Frieza form 3 ~ 3x as strong as Frieza 1
5. Goku normal (frieza saga) ~ as strong as Frieza form 3
6. Goku Oozaru ~ 10 x Goku normal
7. Goku SSJ1 ~ 20 x Goku normal
8. Goku SSJ2 ~ 50 x Goku normal
9. Goku normal in Buu saga: Can kill master roshi with 1 finger.
10. Goku SSJ1 ~ 20 x Goku normal
11. Goku SSJ2 ~ 50 x Goku normal
12. Goku SSJ3 ~ 100 x Goku normal
13. Buu?s aura was able to destroy the whole universum (buu + absorbed dbz-fighters)
14. Goku SSJ3 powers weren?t that great, but he was able to fight some time against that form of buu.
15. Buu teleporting from planet to planet to destroy it. He destroyed the planets with a simple beam.

-> if goku normal can kill master roshi who destroyed the moon with a kame, with 1 finger, imagine what he could destroy with a kame. I bet if he shoots the kame through our solar system, he would just destroy everything there, including the sun. (in his SSJ form)
(sun = ~109 x bigger than earth)

So how could Superman survive such a kame if even he sun can?t (his power source)? And someone who is able to charge an attack which can destroy the sun is also able to destroy a fighter who gets his power from the sun. =/.
Technically he can?t beat goku. Watch a battle of goku. He instant teleport all the time and fights in super speed. Alone his aura destroys the ground around him. Watch a battle of Superman. He first flys with super speed to the planet and when it comes to battle the opponent he just lacks in speed and in strength.

On the other side, the average Superman is only able to lift a train.
His sneeze attack should only freeze things. That?s also what it does the most of the time, but 1 time 1 of the many authors made 1 big mistake and let it destroy 1 solar system. Big issue. He himself isn?t even able to destroy a planet, but his sneeze can destroy a solar system =/. There was never a planet destroyed because the violence of the fight between Superman and his opponent / opponents. (you will say now: because superman don?t want to kill people. Or something like that. But because he doesn?t don?t mean his opponent doesn?t too. If his opponent is as strong as Superman he shouldn?t have trouble destroying any planet or causing so much violence in a fight against superman that the planet have to explode.)

Your Galactus only eats planet after planet. He needs way longer to eat 1 planet than goku would need to blew it up. 1 Kame of Goku normal would blow up Galactus to billion of pieces.

 

[Zeonix]

Stop making up statistics. They don't help your arguement.

You don't know that Buu was able to destroy the universe, because he never attempted to. All he does is seek out life and then destroy it.

All of your statistics are made up, so I won't even try to explain why they're bull****.

Goku isn't able to destroy the Sun. No one has ever tried in DBZ, and no one ever will because DBZ is dead. Once again, you're making stuff up, and it's getting old. If Goku were to destroy the Sun, he'd be killing himself. Superman wouldn't die because he can maintain a charge for quite some time, which you'd know if you took the time to read about his powers instead of making up bs statistics time and time again.

Now, even though Goku can't destroy the Sun, that doesn't entirely mean that he can't beat Superman. I've said this already but you prefer to blind yourself with ignorance. Goku doesn't have the physical strength to kill Superman with mere kicks and punches. Goku couldn't even tire out Cell with kicks and punches, and he sure as hell didn't get anywhere even close to beating fat buu and kid buu with his punches and kicks. His power doesn't come from his body. It comes from his ability to generate tremendous amounts of energy that translates into a destructive force.

So how would Goku go about generating all of that energy needed to kill Superman? He would have to charge. He doesn't charge in 1 second or 1 minute. It takes time. Time is something he won't have when fighting Superman.

BUT GOKU IS SUPER FAST HE GO REAL FAST LOLOOO

No. Goku is fast, but again, he doesn't have the strength to put a dent in Superman. That isn't his power.

Why would Superman destroy planets to defeat one guy? Even you must realize how absurd and stupid it is to destroy an entire planet to kill one guy. They aren't shooting giant beams from their hands. They're using brute strength, so obviously planets aren't going to suddenly explode. Even in DBZ, they were only able to destroy planets by destroying the core. How would fighting in the air or in a city cause the core to suddenly explode? It wouldn't, therefore your point is moot.

Don't even try to compare Goku to Galactus. Galactus can kill anyone in DBZ and pretty much everyone in DC Comics on a whim. The Power Cosmic has DBZ's ki beat in every possible way.

Once more, stop making up information. It makes me not even want to read the rest of your convoluted post.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Nah. Zeo's right. You guys don't know what you're talking about. Superman, crazy powers of thge Z fighters notwithstanding, would school any of the Saiyans.

 

[Super Veggeto]

Common sense people.

----------------------------------------------

Now, if Goku and Superman are fighting, it would be a no holds barred kind of thing. There wouldn't be any drama, there wouldn't be any surprise humans falling off a building and they wouldnt need to team up to kill some new evil menace.

It would be a fight to the death. They wouldn't have to build up their powers. They would fight each other at their very best with every intention of killing the other. This isn't a comic. Pretend this is an actual fight. They'd come out of the gates with guns blazing and both know they have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

This is why I say Superman would win. If it didn't matter how quickly the fight ended because there was no one around to buy his product, he could unleash everything he has. Goku would do the same, but we've seen him maxed out. Superman has never maxed out, but has still been a step below God.

We've seen Goku surpasses his own limits several times though =P he would surpass Superman eventually.
I mean that is Goku's personality.

 

[SS2 Vegeto]

Every time Superman was injured in the history of his comics he either:

a) didn't possess invulnerability at the time

b) didn't possess invulnerability in that era

c) had lost his invulnerability for some reason

d) was being harmed by magic

e) was weakened by kryptonite, which he did not possess an invulnerability to at the time

f) was not anywhere near the peak of his power


And to counter your absolutely ridiculous, hilarious point of Superman normally not being able to destroy a planet in the SILVER AGE, he can control his freaking power. He's not some gorilla who just smashes through everything in his path to get to his enemies. Try again...or not.

Now, go ahead and find me a few things. Do it. You have as much time as you want. Find an example of any characters from the Dragonball franchise possessing the ability to do any of the following: sneeze and destroy a distant solar system (please note that our solar system is on the smaller side), alter the fabric of existence and reality by pounding on dimensional walls, move an entire solar system of planets linked by a monstrous chain to the other side of the universe, move at thousands of times the speed of light, fly fast enough to pierce the time barrier and travel through time, fly to the edge of creation, fly fast enough to peek between dimensions and even meet God, take blasts strong enough to destroy galaxies head-on with absolutely no damage, blow out stars like candles, put out a supernova with their breath, physically defeat beings capable of absorbing entire universes, possess invulnerability to everything with the exception of magic, and have complete and absolute control over all of those powers and abilities.

At his peak, Superman can and has done all of this. Period. This is fact, to which there is no argument. If you want to contest to what did and didn't happen in the Silver Age of his comics, without even reading them, then that's your problem.

If you still want images, I have the following: Superman piercing the time barrier, Superboy prime altering reality (a being physically weaker than Superman at his max), Superman pulling a chain of planets to the other side of the universe, and to attest to his invulnerability to kryptonite at his peak, him eating it.

And realistically, the most anyone can probably do in the canon Dragonball universe is destroy a galaxy. At MOST.

 

[Zeonix]

I'm sure if we gave Goku 20 years to train on his own, he would eventually surpass Superman (If Superman didn't supercharge himself). Then again, Goku will have died during the fight so good luck with that. Remember, Goku attempted murder during the fight and failed, so I doubt he'd even get his body back.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

*sigh*

It doesn't matter.

Superman is impervious to all attacks except kryptonite. So, barring kryptonite from the fight, Goku would never be able to damage Superman, no matter what form he was in. Maybe if he mustered up enough strength he could do some minor damage through Superman's aura but it is certain to be nothing major; whereas Superman could conceivably break every bone in Goku's body in a single blow. He could also snap his neck, freeze him, burn him, fly with him into the upper atmosphere and asphyxiate/incinerate him, strangle him, throw him into the sun, hold him underwater until he drowned, beat him to death with a building, carry a slab of liquid superhot magma and dump it on him, etc. etc.

I can think of about 8000 ways Superman could kill Goku. Maybe he'd put up a fight but it would only delay the inevitable, as any damage or knockbacks would be solely for show, and wouldn't affect Superman in the slightest.

 

[Zeonix]

But Pride! Goku can use his kamehameha! HE CAN DESTROY PLANETS PRIDE!

If Master Roshi has a pl of 1000 and Goku is 200 billion times stronger, then he surpasses the Earths pl of 10,000! SUPERMANS POWERLEVEL IS 12!

The math speaks for itself.


I believe if you almost killed Goku and then brought him back from the brink of death enough times, at some point he'd be able to do some damage to Superman.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Kreshi, everything you have posted thus far has been strictly hypothetical.

Goku "could" blow up the sun, Goku "could" destroy the universe, Goku "could" break-dance on the moon.

Whereas everything Zeonix has used as an argument is backed up by observational facts, from comics, the movies, you name it, anything Zeonix has said Superman can do, is because he's already done it, or it's been alluded to in one way or another.

Do you know why Superman is never really shown to be ridiculously strong? Because they have to humanise him. I know this was already said, but Superman would be the most boring comic in the world if he annihilated his opponents on the first page of the comic. But no, the writers draw you into this false sense of security where Superman is actually losing, maybe he's not so god-like afterall, and then in the last few frames Supe's like, "lol guys, just kidding" and owns his enemy.

 

[nsd_2400]

I think goku would win. He knows how to power up if he gets tired. Superman doesen't. Goku can concentrate all of his enerhy in to one blast. Superman only have eyelaser, wich moves slow.

 

[Optimus Prime]

To say Superman only has his eye-laser, is a HUGE under-estimation of his power and abilities.

 

[dany_goku]

I have read the last 2 pages of this thread and I was rolling on the floor laughing, seeing 2 people sustaining their cause about an anime/manga character and a comic book character.This thread was also an info thread because I have learned many things about Superman.The only way to determin who is the best of the best is to put Goku and Superman to have an Arm wrestling match just kidding.

 

[Kreshi]

Every time Superman was injured in the history of his comics he either:

a) didn't possess invulnerability at the time

b) didn't possess invulnerability in that era

c) had lost his invulnerability for some reason

d) was being harmed by magic

e) was weakened by kryptonite, which he did not possess an invulnerability to at the time

f) was not anywhere near the peak of his power


And to counter your absolutely ridiculous, hilarious point of Superman normally not being able to destroy a planet in the SILVER AGE, he can control his freaking power. He's not some gorilla who just smashes through everything in his path to get to his enemies. Try again...or not.

Now, go ahead and find me a few things. Do it. You have as much time as you want. Find an example of any characters from the Dragonball franchise possessing the ability to do any of the following: sneeze and destroy a distant solar system (please note that our solar system is on the smaller side), alter the fabric of existence and reality by pounding on dimensional walls, move an entire solar system of planets linked by a monstrous chain to the other side of the universe, move at thousands of times the speed of light, fly fast enough to pierce the time barrier and travel through time, fly to the edge of creation, fly fast enough to peek between dimensions and even meet God, take blasts strong enough to destroy galaxies head-on with absolutely no damage, blow out stars like candles, put out a supernova with their breath, physically defeat beings capable of absorbing entire universes, possess invulnerability to everything with the exception of magic, and have complete and absolute control over all of those powers and abilities.

At his peak, Superman can and has done all of this. Period. This is fact, to which there is no argument. If you want to contest to what did and didn't happen in the Silver Age of his comics, without even reading them, then that's your problem.

If you still want images, I have the following: Superman piercing the time barrier, Superboy prime altering reality (a being physically weaker than Superman at his max), Superman pulling a chain of planets to the other side of the universe, and to attest to his invulnerability to kryptonite at his peak, him eating it.

And realistically, the most anyone can probably do in the canon Dragonball universe is destroy a galaxy. At MOST.

Come on, show what you have, i wanna see how he fights a great opponent in combat :S

 

[SS4 Gogeta]

If Master Roshi has a pl of 1000 and Goku is 200 billion times stronger, then he surpasses the Earths pl of 10,000! SUPERMANS POWERLEVEL IS 12!

The math speaks for itself.

Speaking of PL , in Dbz what is it a measure of? Id think it would be compared to a normal human pl =1 and say Roshi pl= 1000 so would that mean hes 1000 times stronger?

I a read somwhere that Earth's gravity is like 3% of Kryptons, I cant remember where if I find Ill put a link to it, may have been on wiki somwhere.
It also stated the when is on Earth, Kal-El is already 1000 times as strong as normal humans without the Solar power from Earths Sun.

Also I was wondering what would happen, when the Sun is on other side of the planet and its night where Superman is at that point. Would he just run on his reserves until they ran out(I know itd take a long time for them to deplete,depending on how much energy he was exerting) assuming he dindt fly to the other side. Then would he became a normal Kryptonian on Earth no super-powers just super strong?

 

[Kreshi]

Speaking of PL , in Dbz what is it a measure of? Id think it would be compared to a normal human pl =1 and say Roshi pl= 1000 so would that mean hes 1000 times stronger?

I a read somwhere that Earth's gravity is like 3% of Kryptons, I cant remember where if I find Ill put a link to it, may have been on wiki somwhere.
It also stated the when is on Earth, Kal-El is already 1000 times as strong as normal humans without the Solar power from Earths Sun.

Also I was wondering what would happen, when the Sun is on other side of the planet and its night where Superman is at that point. Would he just run on his reserves until they ran out(I know itd take a long time for them to deplete,depending on how much energy he was exerting) assuming he dindt fly to the other side. Then would he became a normal Kryptonian on Earth no super-powers just super strong?

Without his powers he is like a normal human. no super strenght, NOTHING. If humans PL=1 his PL is also =1.