Have Religions Been Whitewashed?

[Deman]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph...

I...God, I don't even need to say anything. You guys know my standings well enough to predict the rant I would normally go on here. I swear, the more I hear about technology, science and logic here, the more pissed off I get...

What the Hell hapenned to this forum? Isn't this supposed to be a DBZ forum? Where's the DBZ threads? Why does this forum resemble an ultra-left wing forum that talks about video games, the news, science advancements, politics and "why religion is a useless societal husk, regardless of the promise of life after death"?

I just....urghhh...Why do I BOTHER?

Stick around J-dude, you'll get to see those who you'd never think would defend Christianity, defending it. Or at least trying to show VideoJinx that some of what he's found out about it is illogical, tin foil wearing, mumbo jumbo.

We could use your help on this one as I'm sure your bible knowledge is greater than ours :O

PS: Wow, that guy in the vid Jinx showed us quotes two new testament scriptures about God being a spirit, but then starts talking about how the old testament calls him a man... without even quoting any scriptures from the old testament. I'm done with that bull**** and it's only a few minutes in.

 

[VideoJinx]

Okay. I got 4 minutes into the video with my bible open ready to expect him to quote single verses out of context, but had to stop when he started on "God is a personal name of Satan" and "The Lord is a title of Lucifer..." without referring to any verses, apocryphal or not, that would give anyone this idea.

He then goes on to quote a couple verses saying that The Creator and/or his messiah is are spirit beings. That's just fine and dandy yet neither verse mentions anything of the Messiah, AKA the one Christians believe is Christ.

I recommending watching 13 minutes in.. at least so you have the full understanding of that particular topic.


I'de also like to mention.. as I've read the Bible and learned some things I too have suspected the possibility of the word "Lord" and the word "God" to be used not just when refering to Yahweh, but also Satan.

Edit: He does quote the old testament and the new to show his message.. plz dont scew the truth.

 

[Deman]

I recommending watching 13 minutes in.. at least so you have the full understanding of that particular topic.


I'de also like to mention.. as I've read the Bible and learned some things I too have suspected the possibility of the word "Lord" and the word "God" to be used not just when refering to Yahweh, but also Satan.

Edit: He does quote the old testament and the new to show his message.. plz dont scew the truth.

No, he doesn't quote the old testament. He quotes Corinthians and John before going on that tirade, both are New Testament books.

Okay, I fastworded to that point. He's now ranting about verses talking about how there are men in heaven(that's understandable considering that's a destination for when we die) men on earth and men under the earth(I'll assume that in the bible this means those who have died as opposed to the men on earth who are living) for a few minutes, mentions that God isn't like men in several verses, then goes into a verse in Isaiah that mentions the Lord sitting on a throne. He asks why a spirit would sit on a throne? Apparently this Prophet Yahweh knows nothing of visions.

Ah well.

VideoJinx. I'm going to tell you what I tell anyone who is told to what to believe the bible really says/means. Read it yourself with unbiased eyes. Why let super fundie with an agenda tell you what it means? Why let this Youtube Prophet tell you what it means?

Edit: Where in the bible, a book that hardly mentions Lucifer but a few times, does it also refer to him as God or Lord? Give me a book or verse or something. Remember, you are making the claim, burden of proof is on you.

 

[VideoJinx]

He quotes John(New Testament),

2nd Carinthians(New Testament)

HE even states after citing both, that they're form the New Testament.

He quotes Exodus ( Old Testament ).

Hosea ( Old ) ect ect


If you'de watch it from beginning to 13 minutes in.. you wouldn't skip the quotes he makes, which agree with his points

 

[Eacos]

Well personally.. I come from a family with strict, solid moral values based on Christian ideals.. but with time Ive come to associate many of my beliefs with science... yes.. science...
particles and atoms vs miracles and "magic"... people tend to separate these two and have never thought of the possibility of mixing them up.
Contrary to what many may think, the bible is purely a metaphor.
Those that really believe its pages to contain literal and direct meanings
are really going astray.
I am deeply involved in my beliefs and I feel a deep and unusual connection with God.. Im not a zealot but close to it... my tatoos more than prove my point :laff:
I feel as though evolution and the creation of the universe is triggered purely by God's will and his almighty decisions. Science is the human way to interpret the way the Universe works, so perfect, so balanced.
Free will is not an illusion as Christians may believe. And yes, evolution is real (just take a look at all them fossils out there) and here is my theory about that:
* Genesis was a purely fictional book of the bible.. a "justification" to explain our origins in times where science was something unconcievable.
Thus God waited until one of the species thrived and evolved (intelligence-wise) to the point where he could grant them the gift of free will... It was then when mankind found itself civilized enough to edificate spiritual beliefs and political systems... then Jesus came, but unfortunatelly "free will" came with a price, as now the thriving species could choose to recognize their maker or not. Dissapointed by the species he had created, God gave his son the choice to join him and heaven and spare them, or unleash apocalypse and start over. We all know what happened though
* The Big Bang is a funny theory, but may be true after all.
"Scientifically", it could be explained as a bunch of gasses mixing up and superheating, up to the point of unleashing a Universe-making supernova.
If mixed with religion, you get the same explanation but with somebody pulling the strings. Its not hard folks!
God and atoms are not incompatible!

Now for the church. A corrupted dogma in search of power and approval from those threatened to burn for all eternity. They speak of poor but carry with them gold-plated artifacts and jewerly.
First they threaten and now they "teach", and although modern day priests carry with them psychological teachings and have updated and eraticated obsolete procedures, they have claimed to carry with them the one and only "truth" and labeled themselves as beings in direct contact with God.
They talk about discrimination.. but refuse to let women take part in mass.
They talk about the same passages and frantically quote paraphrases from the bible, unable to explain the meanings themselves.

It gets boring dude, contradictions galore.
Fu** the church... those that believe that aethiest are the "smartest" people around are making a bold statement... those with the inability to believe in something are far from reaching any form of ascension.

Wanna talk some more? Hit me up on MSN or AIM
msn: [email protected]
aim: StealthSudaka

 

[Rocky]

Well you all seem to be of Christian upbringing, so I guess I'll try and bring a Jewish opinion to this matter. Sorry if some of the things are randomly ordered, it's just what popped into my head at the time.

I know a lot of super Orthodox Jews who have been that way since birth, and I know a lot of super Orthodox Jews who have been that way because of a certain event in their life that changed their opinion on God and the Jewish religion. My dad, for example, converted to Judaism (twice actually) because he lost his faith in Christianity, which I see a lot of in general in today's time, and even in this thread. There's also the people who become more religious because of a death in the family, or they just need some help finding themselves.

What I love about my sect of Judaism (Modern Orthodox) is that you aren't totally forced to be Jewish like Ultra-Orthodox sects do. It allows somewhat of a freedom, and it makes people, namely myself, enjoy the religion more. As I said I know a lot of people who have been super Orthodox since they were born because the religion was beat into their head and that's all they know. I also know some people who deviated from their parents and religion because of that.

Do I believe in God? Yes I do. Do I know what God is? Not totally. Do I think the Torah (Old Testament) is divine? Yes. The question of who wrote the Torah is very up-in-the-air when it comes to Judaism. I don't know about the rest of the Bible, but I personally don't care about it since I don't believe in it. Some people say God just snapped his fingers per se, and the Torah was there. Some people say Moses wrote the Torah from what God told him to write down (40 days on Mount Sinai). Some people say the Torah was written by multiple authors throughout the generations up until the destruction of the Temples. I don't know which I believe, but most Jews believe that the Torah is somehow directly from God and that's good enough for them/me.

A lot of the things mentioned in this thread are very controversial in Judaism, like the name of God some of you talked about. Seeing that I feel kinda of appalled, but that's mostly because none of you have really studied the Torah, Mishnah (oral law), and Talmud (commentary on the oral law). But in Judaism that is not the "Divine name of God." No one knows what the "Divine name" is because it died with the destruction of the Temples. Not to mention there are many, many, many, many, many (I could keep going) names for God.

The way I think you all view religion is through a Christian world, which isn't surprising to me at all. I don't mean to put myself on the high chair, but I do believe Judaism is the only "correct" religion. Christianity doesn't make sense, because if the messiah had come in Jesus then there wouldn't be anymore war. I also believe that Christianity isn't a monotheistic religion, because they worship more then just God (Jesus, saints, etc.). I won't get into Islam because of my feelings about Israel and the Middle East.

All I'm trying to say, I guess, is take a look at the world without the influence on Christianity. Christianity has done some pretty messed up things to the world and the people who follow it. Try to look at religion through a different perspective. A lot of you sound almost angry at Christianity, which clouds your vision about religion, since, I'm guessing, most of you were brought up Christian. And I'm not trying to get people to convert to Judaism, although it greatly sounds like it. It just irks me when people don't believe in God, or say that religion is just an excuse for war. I feel there's more to say, but I'll see how this thread progresses more first.

I just wanna quote this because I think you did a fantastic job summing up jewish perspective on religion.

I do wanna reinforce the fact that jews have no name for God, in actual fact we're not supposed to write his name in any form, unless when in prayer. I can remember when we used to study judaism and hebrew as practice we would omit or replace the name. So as far as this Yahweh business goes, I don't really know where it came from and what relevance it has to Judaism (if any) other than coming from hebrew.

In general I think religion is important, it gives people something to believe in, a higher power that they can construct their lives around. Yes, religion is not perfect and when taking to any extreme (from muslim extremists, to orthodox jewish extremists and even extremist christians) can have adverse affects like wars and terrorism and all kinds of nasty things that people do that have them believing they are doing the work of god. But as a child to believe that Grandpa isn't dead, he's just gone to heaven is a lot more comforting to feel than Grandpa is dead, he's never coming back and his body rests inside a hole in the ground.

The way it was said in South Park (yeah I know it's not the ideal show to quote but generally behind each episode is a very valuable lesson) Religion is a set of stories to help guide our lives, it's not meant to be taken literally as how can you take literally a story that was written thousands of years ago? It's when you get this balance of modern day life and a history of how to live a good and prosperous life (do not kill, do not steal, honour your father and mother) is when you've got it right.

Saying religion is garbage and used to delude and confuse people is just looking at a few extremists using religion the wrong way. Especially when there are so many right ways to use religion.

I won't comment on religious conspiracies about God being Satan or whatever cause that seems foolish to me.

 

[Optimus Prime]

VideoJinx, I think that a lot of people have problems with what you are doing, because you promote YouTube rants as fact. It's one thing to say, "hmm, this is an interesting perspective," it's an entirely different thing to immediately tell anyone who disagrees with said rant that they are wrong, or somehow misguided to the truth.

You need to stop searching for truth in a 20 minute YouTube rant, you need to come to your own conclusions and your own truths. And not try to force them on people who have come up with separate conclusions and truths different than your own.

People don't need you to preach your "truths" to them, they are probably happy with the truth they have found to believe in by themselves, based on their own life experiences

Honest question Jinx. How many academics, or scholars use YouTube as a reliable source of information?

 

[Chakra-X]

Why do we need God to be happy? Why should the only reason people be nice to each other be because a Deity is watching you? I mean if God is necessary to keep the public relatively civil, then so be it, because I too feel I will be "rewarded" through good acts.

I will admit, that I do not know a lot about Judaism, Brim, so I do not know how to comment on that.

Karma or Heaven would be nice, but I really think life just moves easier for me and other by being "nice" and understanding. To evolve as a human, you should not need ancient writings and rituals to tell you what is right.

What the Hell hapenned to this forum? Isn't this supposed to be a DBZ forum? Where's the DBZ threads? Why does this forum resemble an ultra-left wing forum that talks about video games, the news, science advancements, politics and "why religion is a useless societal husk, regardless of the promise of life after death"?

I'm starting to get irritated (not at you though) of the idea that this is "just a DBZ forum". The fact is, the crowd that came here solely for DBZ has severely diminished. Though I still like DBZ, the rest of us have found other things to talk about. Why not go to a specific board for such discussions? Because I do not know those people as well and it's too formal. You for instance. I feel much more comfortable talking about politics with a guy who I was just agreeing on about a future video game.

But I know the question in your head is "Why do these people actively reject religion?"

I think Alea made the best point in her first post. I am not ultra liberal really. Hell I may be a moderate liberal. But I do believe that it is extremely bold to claim "God Exist Because The Faith Tells Us He Does" or "There is no scientific evidence of God, so therefore he does not exist".


I do not believe in a God where he lives in the grounds with a long beard and robe. A God that will send you to fire if you kiss a man. A God who conveniently happened to make his declarations in the far past.

I strongly feel there is this force "governing" life, time, and what have you, but it is far more complicated than what religion teaches us. I believe religion is a stand in for our inability to comprehend the "true" God.

Now the purpose of the following statement is not to say "Why you are wrong/Why we are right" but why we believe this way. I don't want to speak for everyone here, but I have lived most of my life without guidance from God. I see these preachers and religious politicians on T.V. try to justify things through God, and then I have people say that they are exploiting/misinterpreting the teachings. Then I think to myself "Things would be so much easier if they were speaking for themselves, and not hiding behind God".

We have a curious generation, J-dude. Shoot we have a curious species. We've launched a man in space, cracked the human genome, and enabled a way for someone in Japan to talk to me in a manner of seconds. We like to experiment. But, when we ask about irrational tendencies of religion, the answer is "because he said so".

Now come on. You have to see why that is such an absurd claim to certain people. After all the work we have done through learning, to expect people to believe in "just do it, no questions ask" is insulting. And what's even more irritating, is how popular religion can be and that there are actual people in power who do not question it.

I am not cynical, so I don't think "Religion causes wars. It's bad and primitive", but yeah the above paragraph states my personal reason for questioning the versions of God that exist in religions.



Oh, I forgot about this tid bit

Scientology

I think the general consensus here is that Scientology is downright silly...But why?

We dismiss the stories of Scientology, such as a galactic space emperor, jets, and "Thetans" as nonsense. Why is a man splitting the sea not nonsense? Or a lake of never-ending fire plausible? Why do the "real" religions have to be limited to the imagery that was useful in the time the religion was formed? Do shepherds, fire, animals, and floods have more credibility than jets, aliens, and volcanoes just because they are not contemporary?

Ugh..I never want to defend Scientology again.

 

[Rocky]

Why do we need God to be happy? Why should the only reason people be nice to each other be because a Deity is watching you? I mean if God is necessary to keep the public relatively civil, then so be it, because I too feel I will be "rewarded" through good acts.

I will admit, that I do not know a lot about Judaism, Brim, so I do not know how to comment on that.

Karma or Heaven would be nice, but I really think life just moves easier for me and other by being "nice" and understanding. To evolve as a human, you should not need ancient writings and rituals to tell you what is right.

You're right in the sense that you shouldn't need god to tell you to be good, in order for you to be good, but the point is that religion in it's essence teaches you to be good. So why do so many people have an intolerable, unreasonable and unjustified reason to hate it. Example:

My opinion: Religion= thing that comes from old prehistorical people who couldn't explain thunder, fire, or world's existence. They invented Gods Then as we found out more things those Gods fused in one God which is called nowdays Jesus Christ or Alah or w/e. The point is: As technology raises the religion falls.

Religion itself teaches you to be good, don't hate it because a couple of extremists have taken their belief of religion too far (this includes, terrorists, those crazy "hip" priests on tv and people who otherwise have no life because god forbids having one).

And theres a bunch of other people who've posted things in other threads who have similar hatred toward religion, they know who they are.

 

[Kaination]

I'll just throw this tidbit in here.

I personally, don't know what the **** I believe. I WANT to believe we all go to Heaven or Hell. I easily say I do. But I know, deep within me, I think it's sheer bull****.

I think it's how much time I've spent on the computer and liked science that proved me to be a 'see it to believe it' kinda guy.

I don't know, I want to believe in God, but I can't just bring myself to actually do it.

While I was being raised, I went through 'church' school thing every wednesday, to where I had to learn about the bible, get confirmed, etc. etc. in the Catholic faith. Or Christian. Hell, I can't even remember. But I remember I always hated going to church. It was so boring.

I think that also has an impact. It's just... I don't think theres someone who split a ****ing sea in half just by moving his arms. I don't know.

I think people have taken religion too far that's strayed my opinion / belief.

/2 cents

 

[VideoJinx]

VideoJinx, I think that a lot of people have problems with what you are doing, because you promote YouTube rants as fact. It's one thing to say, "hmm, this is an interesting perspective," it's an entirely different thing to immediately tell anyone who disagrees with said rant that they are wrong, or somehow misguided to the truth.

I never said that.

You need to stop searching for truth in a 20 minute YouTube rant, you need to come to your own conclusions and your own truths. And not try to force them on people who have come up with separate conclusions and truths different than your own.

I search anywhere where I believe the truth could be present, and "I dont" force them on anyone.

People don't need you to preach your "truths" to them, they are probably happy with the truth they have found to believe in by themselves, based on their own life experiences

I'm not preaching, and if people were happy with "the truth they have found to believe in by themselves" they... unfortunatly wouldn't care about other information relative to their beliefs.

Honest question Jinx. How many academics, or scholars use YouTube as a reliable source of information?

I wonder how many use the News Networks... lol discrediting youtube simply because it's youtube isn't enough.. the good thing about it.. its an open book for "all" sources of information. If you want Biased sources =] Flick on your TV and turn on FOX News


-------------------------------------------

But when it comes to the video of the man speaking, he uses quotes from the Bible to support exactly what he says. Now, I haven't seen anything that shows "Fallacy" in what he's saying. I have a christian friend who I'm talking to, and I've even brought this up to him. Ha, I duno if he was "stumped" or not but when I asked him about it.. He told me the Old Testament fortells of the New Testament, but when I asked for him to show me, he either couldn't or wouldn't. So right now that's what I'm looking for..

 

[Adaptus]

Yes you do, Jinx.

If we tell you you're making mistakes, you claim we're "assuming things" about you and that we're wrong, ignorant and unguided.

You feel you're so superior to us that you don't even see yourself able to make any mistake. This is why you cannot possibly see someone else's point of view. In your world, only your view exists. You don't trust anything what anybody says unless they say whatever you like to hear.

It's so ironic that the superiority you feel comes from utter ignorance.

 

[Avenger]

Well, I've talked about stuff with Jinx on Skype, and he doesn't really seem superior. Maybe convinced, but I don't think he's patronizing you as much as his messages make it seem. Jinx seems to me to be a little naive, but his logics are far less flawed than you assume. The whole "Lucifer = God" thing doesn't make sense, because Lucifer was God's right hand man, not the same person, though. Personally I think the Devil has been put in a bad perspective, as he was only trying to look out for his own kind.

Would you put up with your country's leader placing a bunch of evil, self-righteous, arrogant, greedy squirrels in front of you? I know I wouldn't.

I'd like to request people stop bickering on Jinx' logic, and rather continue the actual debate.

 

[Barney]

Why do we need God to be happy? Why should the only reason people be nice to each other be because a Deity is watching you? I mean if God is necessary to keep the public relatively civil, then so be it, because I too feel I will be "rewarded" through good acts.

I will admit, that I do not know a lot about Judaism, Brim, so I do not know how to comment on that.

Uhh are you talking to me in that last part?

And I don't think we necessarily need God to be happy, but if we believe in God and we follow a religious path then we would rather God be happy with our lives then disappointed with it, no? I mean I know I do a lot of things that go against my religion, but when I pray and I make my own connection with God I feel like all of that just goes away.

I don't think we can always be good to our faiths and God because of the time and age, especially since now a days a lot of people would be put to death for sinning if it was like in Biblical times. But I do think that if everyone does a little good in their life and has some faith then the world will become a better place and the Messiah will come and we can all go back to the garden of Eden.

 

[Killface]

I actually agree with him this time.. i'm a catholic, but i believe the catholic church is corrupt and i don't really agree with alot of what they do. Thats my take on it all.

 

[VideoJinx]

Ever heard of the "East" Star from the Bible?


This guy seems to do more then make it clear exactly what that "star" is referring to.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8OXlC4GmbrQ

Amazing, so according to this... plagues of the Bible, were just magically made, but were distributed by UFO's? interesting stuff.

 

[SailorAlea]

Yes, of course. There's lots of evidence that magic plagues are distributed by spaceships. Cloud spaceships. This guy has ratings and comments disabled for a reason.

"Contact TV, Inc. is a non-profit, tax exempt, religious corporation that broadcasts all of Prophet Yahweh's pre-recorded UFO videos.

These videos feature Prophet Yahweh, Seer of Yahweh, Master UFO Caller proving he has made "contact" with the Angels of YAHWEH.

Prophet proves this by calling down Their UFO flying machines or Them in Their spaceships, on a consistent basis, for witnesses to see."

Thanks for bringing us this indisputable truth, Jinx.

 

[VideoJinx]

2 my knowledge the Bible it self suggests it.

along with many other things today.

 

[Ready2GoXtr]

I think he does it for attention. Didnt get a debate going this time tho.

 

[MC]

I'm sorry to disappoint you VideoJinx, but Prophet Yahweh is a fraud.