Giving Krillin another transformation (inbetween Normal & Mystic)

[Grega]

I stick with my asumption. Krillin is the fastest character in ESF 1.2.x He has second biggest HP and his scatering beam is a serverkiller (literaly ^^)

Besides everything for 1.3 is getting redone so who knows how the team will change transformation PLs or other stats. and as said befor. If the tests find yout that Krillin is underpowered than its extra balancing work for the team. And that can be fixing up his current transformation more or adding anotherone.

And with KWS on the testing team you know Krillin is in good hands XD

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yea but his scatter beam is not useful in a 1 vs 1 match or even 2 v 2. (assuming beams are allowed, when usually they are banned from use). All possibilities of esf play have to be considered.

So if it is a battle of skill then if you r skiiled then you will win whit krililin

Yes you have to be alot "better" then your opponent if he uses goku for example, in order to win. But you are already at a disadvantage right from the beginning just because your krillen, big negative there. If the players are of "equal skill", then the game becomes a battle of who's character is better overall.

A competitive player will use any advantage they can get in the game, and krillen will not be taken seriously if he is weaker compared to the others.

Offtopic related : Take Super Smash brothers Melee for example.. Marths, falco's, fox's, Shiek's and peach's usually win tournaments. Not the pikachu's, ness's, mewtwo's, Pichu's, and bowser's. They have too many disadvantages against them (compared with top tiers) to even stand a chance at winning.

 

[nge]

Krillen is the best transed charecter. Too bad people don't play with transes competitively- even if they did, he'd trans far too late to accomplish anything.

@Grega- 3rd largest HP, don't forget buu/freiza!

 

[MF29]

Offtopic related : Take Super Smash brothers Melee for example.. Marths, falco's, fox's, Shiek's and peach's usually win tournaments. Not the pikachu's, ness's, mewtwo's, Pichu's, and bowser's. They have too many disadvantages against them (compared with top tiers) to even stand a chance at winning.

That does not make since, your naming the people you arent good with, every character in ESF and SSMB are equal if you are good playing with them, if you arent that does not mean that they have a badder chance at winning.

 

[nge]

Hate to break it to you, but charecters in fighters are never equal. Especially in SSBM.

 

[vinay87]

mf29's right though.
If u like discs, take Krillin/Frieza/Cell. Personally, the Destructo Disc pwns all.
And when Krillin transforms.... he pwns the map, if u play well.
it depends on the human controlling the character, not the character itself.

 

[MF29]

mf29's right though.
it depends on the human controlling the character, not the character itself.

Yeah it matters on who's controlling him, I could be the best Bowser player ever, just because you can't play with that character does not mean he isnt a good character.

 

[donnierisk]

Soo very true, same goes for other "weak" characters, like Piccolo, he can be extremely lethal if you use him properly, I say keep Krillin as he is, he's good enough for me.

 

[vinay87]

Piccolo... weak? I fought a Super bot Piccolo for like 4 hrs and killed him only 6 times... why? Coz he always threw my f**king spirit bomb back at me with his beam cannon!!

 

[nge]

... and that explains it.

Watch a pro play, either of these games. You could be the best bowser ever, but you'd lose to a halfway decent fox. You could be the best krillin ever, but any smart buu/cell/goku/vegeta would own you.

The fact is, amongst players of equal skill without early transing, the only slow charecter who has a chance is Freiza due to his finger laser.

 

[vinay87]

but the best fights are those which stick to common attacks.
And then, its only Trunks who has the advantage because of his meleeswrod in combos.

 

[nge]

Trunks has practically no advantage. He's slow- he's got that multi-hit over other slow charecters. He's got no instant attack like the laser, and he's too slow to cause any good damage swooping against a faster player.

 

[nihao]

... and that explains it.

Watch a pro play, either of these games. You could be the best bowser ever, but you'd lose to a halfway decent fox. You could be the best krillin ever, but any smart buu/cell/goku/vegeta would own you.

The fact is, amongst players of equal skill without early transing, the only slow charecter who has a chance is Freiza due to his finger laser.

uh i play super smash competitivly and i use marth, every chars in that game has major cheapness to them, i have seen 647 combos with frikin dk and he is lowest teir under frikkin kirby, i use peach and marth, because at low lvls they lookd liek weak chars, i stuk with them and learn to write faqs on that game, in almost every game, tier matters ubt the skill of the ppl playing matters more, even a masemune can be like a rusty sword to an inexperienced fighter, but so a rusty sword can be a masemune in the hands of a master ,
nge your the kind of guy who whold shoot somone without a gun ans say hurray i win, when if you think abuot it on the abstract it was no real batle and you have won nothing, so is is in tekken when somone is new and they win with nina against somone who is a vet with kuma, but even so, knowing why and how top teir chars operate works agains them, cell is fast most ppl cant controll speed in this game , teir acuacy goes down, as for goku tho... its almost like they just worked harder on his model than anyone elses, he resoondes faster in genral, witch isnt fair, but ppl as same lvl can with with whatever chars, its all about skills mang. -_- juu win because you are good, not because of who you use, if you "win" and it wasnt your fault , then it doesnt really count anyway, and you need to work harder, because you not wooping as much as you shuold be with that chars, (this i not saying directly to you) and i gots no malace towards u believe me, i just talk to much and i debate this idea in every game i play. ^_^
oi and as for kurrin... if we call "mystic" a transformation, then he only gets 1 trans and this games need to not take the lame route and start puttig in fiticous chars, or filler chars, those are all lame, might as well put in KRILLICOLO! or cellkrillicolo , i mean common guys, "its like... come on"

 

[vinay87]

Dang if I understood half of that.
I stick to it. Krillin should not turn mystic. For that, we have EVm, and are dying coz of it.

 

[nge]

You're missing the point, nihao. 2 people, equal skill. It comes down to the charecter at that point. Marth is a top teir charecter in ssbm, along with fox and sheik. Peach is the best upper teir charecter, so once again your point doesn't matter. Combo's mean nothing in comparison to your ability to play the game.

I'm not saying a charecter wins a game. Skill does. But anyone with any form of competence should be able to exploit a charecter's flaws enough to win based on charecter alone.

I play as untransed Krillin and Gohan almost exclusively in pubs. You know why? It's cause they're just bad versions of good charecters. It's to get better at the game.

If you had EVERY fighter equal to eachother, then it's boring and lame. That's not what I'm saying should be done to make a good game. There is nothing wrong with a weaker or stronger charecter- just come to terms that the said charecter is weaker or stronger. I like being krillin and killing buu's, because it feels like that much more of an achievement.

That said, I stick to my ground. Krillin is a fun charecter to use because his transformation really feels like you earned something.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

yes nge that may suit your playing style, to use underpowered characters.

But when its in a competitive environment, the pichu's, mewtwo's, bowser's, etc will practically never win tournaments. They just dont stand a chance against higher tiers.

What fun is that to a player knowing his favorite character is just naturally worse then the others, and no matter how good you get, he just does not fight as well. Instead the lower tiers should be given better stats and tweaks to bring him up higher on the tier list, like added weight, tweaking the attack list, and less lag, etc.

Then you got a character like marth who is overpowered (but not unbeatable.) Every one of his attacks tip, and have great knockback, especially his forward Smash. Even at 0 percent it tips with huge knockback. His grab range is also the largest in the game. It grabs out like 2 feet in front of him. He needs to be brought down a bit. He also chain grabs fox and falco, which makes the fight very unfair for them.

Same goes for esf. Bring up the lower tier'd characters, piccolo for ex, and give him better stats and attacks so he can stand a chance with the goku's and vegeta's. Whereas the slightly overpowered characters, like buu, might have to be brought down a tad.

 

[Jariroth]

Trunks has practically no advantage. He's slow- he's got that multi-hit over other slow charecters. He's got no instant attack like the laser, and he's too slow to cause any good damage swooping against a faster player.

Trunks has his sword which increses damage if you know how to use it. it can also instant kill any1 who has below 20% HP. Also he has burning attack which is fast in charging and movement and quite powerful as it is. Perfect to hit people stickied to the ground or to surprise those swooping to you from long distance.

And when did this turn into Super Smash Brothers Thread?

 

[nge]

His sword and the 20% gib are a joke- currently, most people would die from that hit anyways and it's for advance melee only. Burning attack is decent but not a match in any way for any real big beam. People who swoop in at you from a distance are probably no real threat anyways, same for people who often get stuck to the ground. His ONLY advantage is his insta-hit, and it's hard enough to make due with that considering he moves much slower than most decent charecters.

I'm not saying to keep every charecter weaker/stronger. I think it's fine to have a weaker charecter, and a stronger one. Feels nice to the game.

Btw, a good sheik or fox should usually beat a good marth due to his floaty-ness.

 

[john_volkov]

Kulilin it's the best caracter in the game I'v playd whit Kulilin agains all my hardes match and I win but I'v even playid against 15 bot's and I still get to win

 

[|Overlord|]

Kulilin it's the best caracter in the game I'v playd whit Kulilin agains all my hardes match and I win but I'v even playid against 15 bot's and I still get to win

Can you please try to make sense, I hardly understood a word of that. Playing with bots isn't really much of a challenge ethier when you compare to playing someone that knows how to play the game well online.

Comparing Trunks to krillin is just about impossible, how easy is it to transform with Trunks and how hard is it to transform with Krillin?. When you compare the two you know that Trunks will come out on top, assuming the player transforms, and will make quick work of the Krillin player (for one, he's using less ki for attacks, can teleport more and has higher pl etc).