FinalShine (Offical Post)!!

[miracle]

the two problems with that is A: no one will use an attack that butchers their powerlevel B: it didnt cause that in the show. when vegeta returned to fuse with goku he hadnt lost his powel level.

maybe dropping it just enough to stop them using it their next life but that sort of drop is ott.

 

[Hibiki]

a suiside attack would totaly suck in esf


a game where every death and kill is a testamint to ur skill why would u wanna blow ur self up and mess up ur good score?

 

[Hitokiri]

Nobody would use it if it dropped you below SSJ. For any reason. There is no possible situation where that would be "the best thing to do," other than 20 seconds before the map ends.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

We should really work on making the melee system a bit more advanced before we start blowing ourselves into pieces over it, don't you think?

 

[imported_mysticssjgoku4]

yea mabe.

we should get combos in melee

 

[Darkside]

haha blowing ourselves into pieces, lol clever.
u ppl r thinking this the whole way through (those that say no)
i think ur imagining something like where vegeta charges a few secs and then makes a exploson the size of like a kamehamhea explosion at a 50 mil pl.... it dont gotta be like dat.. it could just be a mere kiblob thats yellow and is bigger and more powerful, or it could be like gohans shield (but with kiblob effect), where u could hold it and then when u run out of ki it blows up, taking out anyone like maybe in a good 10 ft radius along with urself..

actuall ynow that i think of it that would be useless.. what if they just made it like a huge kiblob?? it would slowly drain ur life considering ur in it... and it would just be like 10 times the size of a normal one.. or somehwere around that.. it doesn't need a charge.. it could be executed like gohans shield attack

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. Somebody would just kill themselves every time they felt like keeping someone from beating them at melee, no questions asked. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end, you would be dead, and you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

Look, if melee is frustrating to you, this isn't the right game. ESF, like DBZ, is based 75% around melee. You make the point above of "there are many variations of this" like it doesn't even matter. Buddy, that's the whole magic behind the melee system. It is simplistic, without being dull. You can get a different battle every time, and human error lends a huge role in determining the outcome. If you aren't fighting back, or you just haven't mastered your melee, you should work on it, and not find ways around it. Vegeta couldn't have done the final shrine on the show if Buu was smashing him into a mountain, and that's what ESF is all about. Unless you wanted to role play it, your attack would either be useless or overused.

 

[V']

How hard is it for you guys to read the words bad idea? Think about it,would you kill yourself just because you don't want to be killed?Even if there was a final shine it would be unbalanced and unfair for the attacker.The most likly result from the final shine would be a spam fest.We would be back to the aplha stage where Final Flash was the spam.

 

[Vertigo]

well i dont know how killing yourself keeps getting involved in this since i clearly stated that, an attack that kills the user would be pointless in a mod like ESF. But you guys seem to be stuck on that and the fact that the show comes before fun in this game. Indeed Dragon Ball Z is all about melee but the most memorable moments that stick in your head is the parts where the beams, lazers and special attacks start to fly. I agree with you on one point Sonic Boyster Melee needs to be fleshed out a little more, but since you are a person who beleves that the show is more important than the creative desing of the makers of the GAME that you like to play so much how do you expect the team to take what you say with an ounce of consideration since they themselves can watch the show on VHS or DVD and get ideas from there? Im trying to give my thoughts up for consideration so that the team can gain insight on how to introduce new gameplay elements and features not throw uncreative ideas around that just about any DBZ fan has seen in the shows, and movies. Sure maybe you like the melee system but i think that its repetitive and dull getting hit into a wall and then hitting the other guy into a wall seem alot more repetitive if you ignore the part in the middle where they are trying to hit each other. Sure Vegeta wouldn't have pulled off the Final Shrine attack if he was getting knock around, but he did and here we are trying to get the attack into the game.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

A-hem. Let's look at the original quote below:

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. Somebody would just kill themselves every time they felt like keeping someone from beating them at melee, no questions asked. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end, you would be dead, and you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

Look, if melee is frustrating to you, this isn't the right game. ESF, like DBZ, is based 75% around melee. You make the point above of "there are many variations of this" like it doesn't even matter. Buddy, that's the whole magic behind the melee system. It is simplistic, without being dull. You can get a different battle every time, and human error lends a huge role in determining the outcome. If you aren't fighting back, or you just haven't mastered your melee, you should work on it, and not find ways around it. Vegeta couldn't have done the final shrine on the show if Buu was smashing him into a mountain, and that's what ESF is all about. Unless you wanted to role play it, your attack would either be useless or overused.

Alright, now let's assume Final Shrine didn't kill you. We'll make a few alterations:

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

Look, if melee is frustrating to you, this isn't the right game. ESF, like DBZ, is based 75% around melee. It is simplistic, without being dull. You can get a different battle every time, and human error lends a huge role in determining the outcome. If you aren't fighting back, or you just haven't mastered your melee, you should work on it, and not find ways around it. Vegeta couldn't have done the final shrine on the show if Buu was smashing him into a mountain, and that's what ESF is all about. Unless you wanted to role play it, your attack would either be useless or overused.

Any questions?

 

[Vertigo]

so the only 2 options for any attack is useless or overused? well i guess i can see that:

melee = overused
picalo's masenko = useless

now dont get me wrong i can use melee fairly well when compared with the next guy. But its getting to the point where melee is getting anoying. all the beams are nice and fun but when can i use them when im getting hammered into a wall by two or three people at once in a team game and by as many as four in a FFA game. I know that the game is still in beta and needs some tweaking but still i would like to see some (SOME) alteratives to people who just use melee ALL the time, I.E. a Ki attack that targets people who use melee...

But maybe we should wait and see how 1.1 turns out since you can stop someone from swooping with a beam.

 

[Xenogias]

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster

::clears throat:: A-hem, NO ONE NEEDS TO DESTROY THEMSELVES TO EARN A FREE KILL. DON'T CHEAT OTHER PEOPLE OUT OF FINISHING YOU OFF WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION, AND DON'T ASK THE TEAM TO CODE AND ANIMATE AN ATTACK FOR YOU WITH NO TACTICAL VALUE. IF YOU WANT TO DIE, STAND ON THE GROUND AND FIRE A FINAL FLASH AT YOUR LEGS.

If he killed himself he wont gain a kill he will gain a death instead
along with the other person he killed. You cant earn a kill like that
cause if you kill yourself you'd just get a minus kill point and add a
death so the attack will be pretty useless unless they made it so
you can get a kill.

Well like my previous suggestions for the Androids.
It should be like the idea I gave the Dooms Day Bomb.
Charge time is like Genki Dama. Vegeta cannot cause the explosion
if he is hit during the process

Like most attacks that are being charged. When you hit them
the attacks leaves their hands unless they died. It shouldn't happen
like that.

The Attack should be only so that the explosion becomes a success
for charging it up to the max. And there cannot be a "Hold" key for
the explosion. Cause I can imagine someone playing as vegeta
holding the secondary button before its about to be triggered while
he waits for someone to come back him so he can take them with
him.

 

[Hibiki]

Originally posted by Vertigo
so the only 2 options for any attack is useless or overused? well i guess i can see that:

melee = overused
picalo's masenko = useless

now dont get me wrong i can use melee fairly well when compared with the next guy. But its getting to the point where melee is getting anoying. all the beams are nice and fun but when can i use them when im getting hammered into a wall by two or three people at once in a team game and by as many as four in a FFA game. I know that the game is still in beta and needs some tweaking but still i would like to see some (SOME) alteratives to people who just use melee ALL the time, I.E. a Ki attack that targets people who use melee...

But maybe we should wait and see how 1.1 turns out since you can stop someone from swooping with a beam.

oh my god


first its oh melee should be the main focus of esf cause its like that in dbz.... so beta 1 comes out and its all about the melee

now its oh melee sucks why did u ever change it from being all beams



WILL U PEOPLE MAKE UR MINDS UP DO U WANT ESF TO BE ABOUT MELEE OR NOT!!!!


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh drives me insane!!!

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Quote from Prince:


"The Attack should be only so that the explosion becomes a success for charging it up to the max. And there cannot be a "Hold" key for the explosion. Cause I can imagine someone playing as vegeta holding the secondary button before its about to be triggered while he waits for someone to come back him so he can take them with him."


Quote from Sonic:

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. Somebody would just kill themselves every time they felt like keeping someone from beating them at melee, no questions asked. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end, you would be dead, and you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

And let me also add

It would be easier and less contraversial for them to just NOT add it into the game.

Oh and because you said something akward I'll make another point.

An attack that was designed to kill you wouldn't cost you a death if it was implemented correctly. If it did, it is still the same principle... most people don't care if they die, they just want you dead.

Why would someone want to use an attack that took that long to charge and could be stopped with melee anyway? It wouldn't hurt anyone unless they were close to you, and if they were close to you, they would punch you.

 

[Darkside]

boyster stop quoting ur old quotes its gettin annoying :S
the final shine wont have to kill u to be int he game.. if u've ever played ultimatebattle 22 or hyper dimension and even dragonball gt final bout, the final shine just takes like 3 secs to charge then u go boom.. u dont lose any life, but ur ki bar goes to 0 and u cant move for a while. but if anyone is in the blast radius they lose like a bar and a half of hp.. they could easily make it like that in esf, so that the blast severes ppl in radius, and just takes out ur ki, instead of ur life. and if u say they cant put it in cuz its not like that in the show.. tell me when did u ever see in the show... 2 characters like goku and freeza for example, taking turns knocking eachother into mountains the whole saga :S??? they did melee combos not flying into someone knocking them across the planet. actually the only time i've ever seen the melee system in esf resmeble that of the shows, is when vegeta went crazy on cell after trunks died and cell swooped up and knocked him into the ground.

 

[Hitokiri]

Sonic has to keep pasting his quotes because you people keep saying the same crud over n over. It saves time, since he's already responded to most of this stuff.

Have you ever seen in DBZ, someone in the middle of the fight just get up and explode? No. It takes a while. And anyway if you make it low charge, that's lame. Why should Vegeta be able to inflict a free hit like that? An attack which takes absolutely no aim. . . it's the epitomy of lameness. Why is a huge charge useless? Because nobody would ever let you complete it. You can spirit bomb from far away, that's why it's useful. You cannot Final Shine from far away. And if it had long charge, you couldn't final shine up close, the same way you could never spirit bomb up close. Because you'd get owned first.

People do not deserve a free hit, which is essentially what a quickly charging final shine would be. A completely skill-less free shot that could potentially kill your enemy. What justifies that? The fact that your getting owned? What gives you the right to take one last unavoidable shot at your enemy?

People do not need a useless piece of eye candy, which is essentially what a slow charging final shine would be.


The problem with this idea is that it's eitehr unavoidable or TOO avoidable. There is no in between.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

How many times do I have to cut and paste before someone reads what I've already written?

 

[Vertigo]

wow this is almost like hitting my head up against a brick wall, except the wall would give way after a few blows. Sonic Boyster you have not seen the middle gound between the easy and extreme. i not saying final shrine should have a charge time like the sprite Bomb but more like the burning attack or even less. as for the spaming of the final shrine attack:

And if you make the attack cost PL instead of Ki then you can limit the amount of times the attack can be used by one person. For example, you would most likely need to be in the area of 10mill PL before you could use the final shrine attack and if the attack cost PL then you would just drop down in PL to just before you could go ssj1 like 1.75mill PL. so therefore this attack would become a very powerful panic button. that would, in all praticality, be only used a few times each map.

and i dont think anyone said anything about being invinceable during the attack. as for someone derserving to finnish you off who deservers to finnish you off when its three against you?

 

[V']

When its three vs one thats a differnent story.No one I mean NO ONE said anything about three vs one.And besides three vs one isn't that hard anyways.Still, Final Shine or Shrine whatever it was, would unbalance things to the max.I say they improve the melee system a bit and never EVER add this attack.I'm pretty sure veryone on these boards can read.So use those literary skills and read sonics posts carefully.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

The very foundation of ESF's PL system is based around increasing as you damage your opponents...

1.) Why would anyone willingly sacrifice Power Level just to kill 1 or 2 opponents when they could simply die and respawn somewhere else?

2.) Do you realize that they would have to code in a brand new PL drop and regen feature for this attack? Do you realize what kind of demand that is?

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
"It would be easier and less contraversial for them to just NOT add it into the game"

Friggin' A, it's an attack that kills you. How is there a middle ground at all? Either you blow up fast, or you blow up slow. Please read my last one more time.