FinalShine (Offical Post)!!

[Hitokiri]

LOL ok ok it all makes sense now, that the guy pushing most for this attack is the type that actually believes in the term "melee whore", and that melee is cheap. Wow. There goes a lot of my respect for you.

 

[Ultimate Vegeta]

yeah like whooping your ass and making you bleed over everything..:shocked: :]

 

[Hitokiri]

Ultimate Vegeta, that didn't make ANY sense, congratulations :yes:

 

[Ultimate Vegeta]

why thank you..no problem..:devil: :talk: :fight: o_o

 

[Wyatt]

if ur beating on sum1 so much and they get the chance to use this kinda attack (im guessing a long charge i dont know or care) then whoever uses the finalshine deserved that kill. And it would help the newbies with bad connection get sum kills.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

I cannot believe your audacity. I didn't realize you were a spammer myself until Hitokiri did. God damn man. Do you really need an attack just to save your ass from somebody chasing you around the map? Get creative damnit. Hide somewhere or try hopping. Don't try to pressure the team into helping you become "melee proof" or whatever you are going for. Learn to fight back and don't try to circumvent the melee system just because you aren't willing to adapt. I was like you are for the first two weeks I played, and then I learned to deal with it. Now I'm one of the best out there. Hell, I'll take winner after you deal with Hitokiri, just let me know which server and what time.

 

[Darkside]

lol my post is still there!? i thought i deleted it hehehe well i wanna take him on.. I myself am a melee spammer but try not to be so i ended up sucking like hell while forcing myself to keep like a 10:1 ratio without melee spamming or shooting big super charged beams at people and blowing it up taking like 5 kills.

lol i only deleted it cuz after i read it i sounded like an idiot lol

 

[Vertigo]

It would be easier and less contraversial for them to just NOT add it into the game

so the developers should not try to add new content, just try and flesh out ideas that we have already seen?

Well before they put it into the game they'll change it around so that it's fair

You to are guilty of useing this excuse. How do you think they will have to ballance the new SBC that you have been wanting to change.

since it is not necessary to include every attack that looks nice from the show in ESF.

spirit bomb looks nice and the teams added that and made it look good. And now the team is working on a sencond SB for 1.1, i think that they could add some more attacks if they wanted to.

There are other attacks and characters which could be implamented without causing such a huge negative reaction from gamers and starting flames all over the forums.

sure there are lots of attacks in DB to choose from but alot of people have their favorites and un-liked attacks. but we are not discusing the myriad of attack that can be implemented in ESF just the fesability of adding just this one attack to one character.


now for you other post:

Get creative damnit. Hide somewhere or try hopping.

im tired of having to do those things already i want more options, like this attack for instances.

Learn to fight back and don't try to circumvent the melee system just because you aren't willing to adapt.

i am willing to adapt to the current system used its just that its getting so Blah with people doing swoop, block, hit, repeat - and many variations on this. But always the same thing being done over endlessly i would like to see some one throw out a final shrine attack and swat away some meleers and force them to do something other than the pattern that they are used to. and then return to the swoop, block, hit, repeat...

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by Vertigo
so the developers should not try to add new content, just try and flesh out ideas that we have already seen?

Anyone who watched Vegeta use Final Shrine on the show has "already seen" that technique. What is your point? Be more clear when you are trying to make up for the validity of my point.

You to are guilty of useing this excuse. How do you think they will have to ballance the new SBC that you have been wanting to change.

What are you talking about? The SBC is already in the game and it has already been knocked around. I've suggested they speed it up, but what does that have to do with its implamentation? The SBC has been in the game since Alpha 2.0 to my knowledge and it isn't all that contreversial. Many more people seem to want it attached (I'm one of them) and so I don't see any pointless contraversy there.

spirit bomb looks nice and the teams added that and made it look good. And now the team is working on a sencond SB for 1.1, i think that they could add some more attacks if they wanted to.

You missed the point. Refer to your first quote.

sure there are lots of attacks in DB to choose from but alot of people have their favorites and un-liked attacks. but we are not discusing the myriad of attack that can be implemented in ESF just the fesability of adding just this one attack to one character.

So far this attack seems to be 50/50 with the people who are voting, and about 20/80 (opposed) with the people who are actively discussing it. It isn't like these people are saying "Yeah well, I don't like it, so I say no." These people hate the idea or strongly dislike it because they realize how impractical it is. If the team added this into the game and didn't get it perfectly there would be complaints all over the forums from people who were against it in the first place and people who figured out how cheap it was when it was used against them for the first time. Right now I don't see very much of that, outside of discs (for some reason), but you know that is what would happen if you unbalance Vegeta like this. Refer to your first quote.

now for you other post:



im tired of having to do those things already i want more options, like this attack for instances.

Alright, here's another option: Fight back. There you go, that's three entire options. If you get a little better at melee people wont be chasing you around all the time. It pays to practice and improve on your skills in games, as opposed to hanging on the forums asking for them to give you something else.

i am willing to adapt to the current system used its just that its getting so Blah with people doing swoop, block, hit, repeat - and many variations on this. But always the same thing being done over endlessly i would like to see some one throw out a final shrine attack and swat away some meleers and force them to do something other than the pattern that they are used to. and then return to the swoop, block, hit, repeat...

So you would change it from "swoop, block, hit, repeat" to "swoop, block, final shrine, repeat?" You don't understand that people do not care when they die. People blow themselves up all the time. Unless you are me, and you have 88 kills and 4 deaths on a big server, and you don't want that number of deaths to go up, you usually couldn't care less. I used to be that way, and many people still sit around with kamehamehas and blow themselves up for kills.

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. Somebody would just kill themselves every time they felt like keeping someone from beating them at melee, no questions asked. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end, you would be dead, and you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

Look, if melee is frustrating to you, this isn't the right game. ESF, like DBZ, is based 75% around melee. You make the point above of "there are many variations of this" like it doesn't even matter. Buddy, that's the whole magic behind the melee system. It is simplistic, without being dull. You can get a different battle every time, and human error lends a huge role in determining the outcome. If you aren't fighting back, or you just haven't mastered your melee, you should work on it, and not find ways around it. Vegeta couldn't have done the final shrine on the show if Buu was smashing him into a mountain, and that's what ESF is all about. Unless you wanted to role play it, your attack would either be useless or overused.

Stop quoting me like this. The only reason I'm copy cating you is because I want you to understand that picking apart what I say doesn't change its meaning. Obviously the power level of my argument is a lot higher than yours, or perhaps I have turbo on. I suggest you change from attacking to blocking and move on.





*Side note: If it didn't kill you, it wouldn't be the final shrine, so don't even make that point again.






Edit note: I Screwed this thing up on accident... if it looks wierd, it's because I didn't fix it right. Gomen.

 

[D.C. Darkling]

Ok... as a vegeta lunatic I desided to post to.

first I agree. learn melee. lol.. I'm bad at melee yet I melee spam 90% untill gone on a good SSJ level. (I don't do FF on 4pl in trans lol)

So while I'm crap at it I do melee (to much?) 2.

beamkills... tehre right. Most ppl don't care when they die. I don
't 2. I won't detonate beams before a player (WEAK, try to play honorable) but sometimes its cool to curve your beam around his if you think ya live and can get him. Resulting in a frag and low life. But yes.... if i'm loading a beam and someone comes close I fire, don't care if I die.

So we don't care, are prepared to spam attacks and then this moves comes along.

I will say I won't mind the attack but I bet ppl want it to be seen just as good as SB, and just as a long load, atleast. I won't mind them adding it but (as with all vegeta's moves lol) they should make a reason to it to make it hard to use. (like GG=noview, BB=no struggle, FF=muchki)

If they make sure we don't overuse the attack cause we CAN'T (loading time, ki, whatever) I say go. If its easy no way.

So basicly I think this attack would rock if we chain vegeta to enought problems. After all, vegeta had a hard time... So we Vegeta players should 2.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster

Let me lay out a couple more points (which were already discussed): If Final Shrine had no charge it would be spammed. Somebody would just kill themselves every time they felt like keeping someone from beating them at melee, no questions asked. If it required a charge, someone would just hit you and stop the charge. If you were invinceable during the charge, they would just fly away. There would be exceptions, but in the end, you would be dead, and you may have killed someone who deserved to finish you off.

 

[Darkside]

Quote by: Sonic Boyster
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Alright, here's another option: Fight back. There you go, that's three entire options. If you get a little better at melee people wont be chasing you around all the time. It pays to practice and improve on your skills in games, as opposed to hanging on the forums asking for them to give you something else.
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lol check out that ghetto quote

Actually there really isn't any skill to melee... whoever has the better computer with lower ping wins... and u cant deny it. when i play esf on my comp im always doin like best in the server cuz my ping is always like 10-20.. on my friends comp his ping is like 60-100 and i get my ass owned by melee. There is no skill to melee at all.

 

[Hitokiri]

If you're a fool and charge head to head every time then of course you're going to lose a lot if your ping is bad. But there's more to melee than that. True, at the moment, it's annoying to be disadvantaged in melee just because your opponent has 10 ping better than you, but that doesn't mean you're going to lose.

If you think melee is just two people rushing at each other, and then a throw of the dice, you've got a lot to learn about it :S I could easily own people below my ping, and no they don't have to be newbies. You see you can actually hit people when they AREN'T swooping, as in when their swoop ends, or you can hit them while they're blocking, or you can hit them WHILE they're swooping but from the side, etc etc. It's the most skilled part of this game because it's mostly the people that decide who wins not the stats or the power levels. And even moreso in later patches, as ping will stop becoming such a huge factor because of advanced melee and other additions to the system.

To win, you have to outthink and ... "outreact"(?) your opponent. And you have to think and react even better if your ping is worse, but that's not what decides a fight. The factors in melee are much more than I can say for beams.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Why don't you put your reputation where your mouth is and challenge us to a one on one then?

Just a friendly warning: 75% of the time I smash an opponent into a wall I hit them from the side, above, or below. I've beaten opponents with a strong 100 to 150 ping advantage over myself many, many times. If you think you're going to beat anyone who has practiced by charging in a straight line, think again. Pick a server and a time, and let Hitokiri and I show you how it's done.

 

[Darkside]

i never said i practiced by charging in a straight line... i hardly even use melee.... there r a lot of ways to stop a melee'r without having to fight back with melee itself (as i do most of the time) each character has a defense against melee.. disk, fingerlaser, shield, eyelaser, even teleporting..

so dont think this is gonna be a melee war.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

You keep talking but I don't see any IPs getting throw onto the table. I want to see you stop me with a disc or a finger laser. You'll get your chance, just pm one of us.

 

[miracle]

my $0.02. they should put it in, it should have a large radius, should stop the user from moving, once you start it you cant stop it, it should expand, the user should be protected from melee but not beams, it should kill the user after draining the ki then health, it shouldnt affect your pl (execpt for a small drop), it should be a c_var.

i dont see people using this in a one on one fight as it garantees you loose a frag but when someone is being overwhelmed by 3 or 4 people teaming them it will make a nice little present.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

And what would keep your opponents from just stepping back and blasting you? Unless they keep trying to melee you it wont effect them.

My advice is that if you are being overwhelmed by more than 1 opponent, do what damage you can before you are buried into the ground. I have a LOT of fun getting beat up on by more than one person. For some reason I seem to perform much better when the odds are entirely against me. I don't often win against more than one player using zanzoken more than they swoop, but it's still a good experience to knock a few of them around before I'm pummled out of existence. Don't just stand there... they will get you from behind. Keep moving and don't be afraid to zanzoken or block.

 

[miracle]

you'd be suprised how many people just continue trying to melee and beam me when i'm using gohans shield, sure the more experienced people know what to do, but it still happens regularly.

thats all good advice but i can hold my own against most teamers (unless they both know what their doing), i just think as moves go, its worth working in.

course the same could be said for buu and cell having suicide moves but theirs dont actualy kill them. that would be unbalanced.

 

[Vertigo]

hmm, i just had a thought about this...

since vegeta never got the chance to get high ssj levels like Goku, why not make it so when you reach a high enough PL you can use the final shrine attack, by pressing the accend button. So that instead of going ssj2 or ssj3 or whatever, Vageta just activates his final shrine attack when you press the accend key once more - you would have to press the accend button twich once to prime the attack and another to fire it, to confirm that you want to use the attack. And if you make the attack cost PL instead of Ki then you can limit the amount of times the attack can be used by one person. For example, you would most likely need to be in the area of 10mill PL before you could use the final shrine attack and if the attack cost PL then you would just drop down in PL to just before you could go ssj1 like 1.75mill PL. so therefore this attack would become a very powerful panic button. that would, in all praticality, be only used a few times each map.

So what do you guys think?