An actual thread about playing ESF

[KidMan]

I have no idea. And I have no idea why I said that. It was in the budokai games and that made fight go on alot longer because they didn't have to power up as much. I figured it might work for ESF.

 

[frsrblch]

Splash damage should be axed. Nobody, and I mean nobody, from DBZ ever died when somebody missed with a beam.

Take out the beam detonation and have it simply detach. If you can't aim for ****, you shouldn't be able to hit me.

Speed up the throwing process, it's too much of a time waster as is.

Reduce the length of time you can swoop around for while transed. It's almost no fun to play transed nowadays. It's not so much of a melee battle as it is a swoop battle. One long chainswoop isn't what I would call a stimulating match. I think they've addressed this with increased ki drain for the higher transes.

Load a readme file after ESF has finished installing that says, in big bold letters, READ THIS OR DON'T COMPLAIN WHEN YOU DIE. It should contain links to the various ESF guides out there (once they've been adapted for 1.3, of course), or better yet, copies of the guides themselves in case links go down. Far too many players simply quit this game because they don't understand what they're doing or, if they don't flat out quit, they pester the players asking how to fly, how to trans and why they keep dying.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, how about making them not take AS much. So if KHH takes 6/10ths of your bar when fully charged, it should go to 1/2 (5/10) or 4/10ths of the bar. It just seems like 70% of an ESF battle is to recharge all the time.

Ok here is an idea. What if you gain back some ki from doing melee? I mean, melee should drain on stamina so that makes sense.

Yea I somewhat agree here. Ki-management is one thing, but alot of the fighting is constantly interrupted by powering up. If every attack's ki drain was lessened slightly like kid boy said, players could enjoy the fighting more rather then having to constantly powerup.

 

[Skiwan]

hmmm i dunno, the ki management is there so people have to learn how to do it... i mean, anybody can keep teleporting and chain swooping in a random enough fashion to make it hard to hit them, if they had more ki a lot of fights would just be alot of dodging, not much hitting. I know when i fight a better player, i can usually dodge 90% of attacks, its just keeping my ki at a reasonable level to avoid attacks is hard to do.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

hmmm i dunno, the ki management is there so people have to learn how to do it... i mean, anybody can keep teleporting and chain swooping in a random enough fashion to make it hard to hit them, if they had more ki a lot of fights would just be alot of dodging, not much hitting. I know when i fight a better player, i can usually dodge 90% of attacks, its just keeping my ki at a reasonable level to avoid attacks is hard to do.

hmm, maybe if teleport's ki drain were slightly higher, that could balance out the dodging thing. Teleports seemed to be used a bit tooo much right now.

 

[KidMan]

Maybe only energy attacks drain slightly less ki then they do now. That might make fights go a little longer. Teleports should either increase the distance at the cost of more ki or less distance for the same amount of ki as right now. Whenever i fight someone, they warp into the side of me and start meleing me. Then they teleport up when i swoop and swoop to the side of me and hit me again.

 

[Skiwan]

You're gonna make it way more complicated than it needs to be. The ammount of time you spend powering up atm isnt that long, and in ssj its rediculous the ammount of ki you have, you hardly ever have to powerup in comparison. Remember ki management will depend on form and character in 1.3, goku ssj3 for example will be *****ing hard to manage his ki, and rightly so. Not to mention managing your ki becomes second nature after a while, powering up every moment that you're stationary means you tend not to have to worry about your ki, taking those risks with your ki is one of the only things that keep fights intense in 1.2, which is also another reason ssj holds little appeal to me in the current version, you cant really get those intense situations, hits scored are more likely down to stupid mistakes rather than anything else. The powering up is how ive always remembered esf, and I think it'd be the one thing that shouldnt change.

 

[sub]

The thing I hate most about the game is the whole transforming thing in general. It's unbalanced, unfun, and not needed. It does essentially a few things here, A) Appease the noobs and B) Make the game more accurate to the show. I care about neither of these things.

So how does it make the game unfun you ask? Well, you have two times the amount of speed and two times the amount of ki. That's one whole part of the game removed, ki management. Remember before how I said if you remove ki management the game becomes unfun? Yeah.

That's ESFs biggest problem imo. It needs to be fixed in 1.3.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

ahh actually that makes alot of sense, if ki-managing will be slightly harder when characters transform in 1.3 for balance. When I was talking about teleports costing more, I was thinking along the lines of what we have in 1.2 right now when someone transforms.... alot of ki for manyy teleports lol.

If its going to be harder, then the first forms should be easier to manage ki in the beginning. The 1st form is tricky enough, but if it got harder then that... ouch. It would also let players stand a chance against the faster trans'd players, since they will have slightly better ki to work with and wont have to powerup as often.

 

[Zeonix]

I'm against making ki management easier and making teleports use more ki. Right now, if you know what you're doing, ki management is never a problem for you and you know when you should use teleport as well as when someone else is going to use teleport. I've said this many times, but I'll say it again. 1.3 should not be designed for noobs. It shouldn't be made any easier than it already is. In fact, it should be harder. People should be forced to practice techniques, like in the previous versions. Learning through osmosis is great and everything, but it doesn't require any skill.

If you know how to handle yourself, fighting a transed character only requires patience unless that person uses beams all the time. In that case, it doesn't matter anyway so there's no point in making the first form easier to handle.

 

[Sonic the Vampire]

Making it harder would secure the pros we already have but it would only make the game less appealing to both our newer players and anyone outside of the mod who was looking for a new game to invest in. That might work for a couple of months, if you don't mind playing with the same people over and over, but once the older hardcore players start getting bored again and download another mod the community is going to thin even more until it only consists of master players and cult followers. Making the game more appealing to new players secures the mod, making it appealing to old players applies a patch to the issues at hand but doesn't do anything to protect the mod in the long term.

 

[Zeonix]

That was already tried in 1.2. Now new players join servers, complain that everyone who is better than them is cheating and hacking or using "noob moves" like simple melee, and quit soon afterwards. As long as some of the pros remain, the lesser players will never be satisfied.

2 things deter people from playing this game: The DBZ theme, and the fact that it isn't just another fps. Being unable to defend themselves creates anger and frustration, and they usually quit as a result of it. Since new players won't be pleased until we can no longer teleport and we all have infinite ki, theres no reason to try to please people who haven't even heard of the mod.

 

[Skiwan]

Yes, it was tried in 1.2, but not done very well, however it still to this day drags in new players does it not? I remember a very dry spell about a year ago and now there's a lot more players than there were back then. Hopefully we'll be able to clear up the issue that new players have with the game with some sort of new tutorial, ingame or just a well done flash, seeming as the community find it so annoying when people ask how to play, if they had something to show them rather than "read the manual" then maybe they'd stick around a while. This doesnt mean i dont agree with you, I think the game wudnt be hurt if it was a bit more difficult, but to completely side with one side is always a bad idea. Compromise, is always a better solution.

 

[Zeonix]

Don't get me wrong. It's great that new players are joining. I just think esf is attracting the wrong type of player. Most of the new players seem to just complain and then quit after they realize words are futile in this game. I'm not basing this on one server. I get around and for the most part, its the same in every server under 200 ping (for me).

 

[Grega]

I have to agree with Zeo. More than 50% of the newcommers play for 10 minutes and than acuse someone of cheating and quit.

Ofcourse there are some people that actualy want to play. That actualy want to learn. Very fiew though.

But i think the thing that Zeo wanted to say is.
"To be good at ESF you need to read the manual and Chakras flash tutoreal and you are already over average"

I kinda agree that it goes to fast from noob to pro. Heck a fiew weeks is enough.

Thats why i hope that the basics can be made easy to learn. But there would some stuff where youd have to be realy darn good at to get right. Like some special things you could do (similar to the currect combos but harder to pull off and harder to block).

 

[Zeonix]

You see, I've been saying that for ages and they just dont give a ****. They act like its my duty to tell them every little thing, like they deserve to be given step by step instructions just because.

 

[Skiwan]

Like i said earlier though, an ingame tutorial is quite possible, aside from that there's not much else that can be done with noobs attitudes.

 

[Zeonix]

I really don't think an in-game tutorial is worth the effort. Unless Smith reads every single line for them, the chances of them actually reading it is 5%.

 

[Growler]

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't read the manual (If I was a newcomer) to gain skill... id just read it to check out its ingame-badassness. I, along with many others, just dont like to read tutorials. Maybe we can have a server that is monitored by willing 'pros' or not even pros to do lessons. If people come there to fight and kill the lesson, then the admin will kick them out. Like a classroom server ;P Honestly, I think what keeps these pros around is the next-to-unlimited attack combos you can do... it is seriously addicting.

 

[Zeonix]

I read the manual several times during 1.1. I read the manual again when 1.2 came out. Compare my "skill" to yours. See? Its the secret to my success!

Everyone read the goddamn manual.