An actual thread about playing ESF

Cunning as Zeus
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Topic Question: What do you think needs to be fixed, in terms of 1.2's gameplay?

One thing that kinda pisses me off is the time it takes to recover. I can hit someone, wait, and at the very last second hit them again and they'll pretty much have to start the recovery process all over again. If it were faster, I wouldn't be able to shoot as many ki blasts as I currently do and fighting would resume almost immediately.

I also don't like the fact that fights can be won with 3 or 4 hits (2 hits in the air, 1 hit on the ground, gen beam and/or gen ball). I'm thinking either we should have more hp (which has been suggested numerous times) or attacks should do less damage. Maybe even a combination of both. At the moment, people are too easy to kill. No, I'm not saying "OMGZ UR ALL NOOBS!". I'm saying that fights end too quickly, unless both players are evenly matched and they fly around each other a lot (or 2 defensive players are fighting).

Your turn.
 
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I agree with everything you said Zeo. The recovery time is a *****. It needs to be MUCH more faster and responsive.

I hate how someone will warp to you, hit you with simple melee and you fly back, and then they either warp or swoop at you and hit you with simple melee again and you continue to fly back and not even have a chance to recover until you hit a wall. That needs to change.

Ki blobs should either be taken out or have the damage reduced. Also, the explosion should go out all the way when some other beam/ball hits it to make it explode. Right now, if you shoot a Fully charged SB at it, the explosion has a cap but the damage radius does not.

If they keep throws in, the they should be faster. I grab a guy and spend almost 30 seconds spinning his ass around before launching him and then having him recover quickly and attacking me.

You should be able to pump energy into a ball attack for a ps. You should have it so right click will launch the ball and you can not pump energy into the attack and left click should have it so you launch the attack, and still able to pump energy into the attack.

The sky, and wall's piss me off because people use it all the time to explode an attack and damage you. If you fire a beam or an ball and it hits the walls or sky, it should disappear and not explode. That makes the person try and aim more then just firing blindly and knowing its still going to hit them because of the walls and sky.
 
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KidBoy17 said:
I agree with everything you said Zeo. The recovery time is a *****. It needs to be MUCH more faster and responsive.
I agree, Zeo's made some valid points but none that havent already been considered.

KidBoy17 said:
I hate how someone will warp to you, hit you with simple melee and you fly back, and then they either warp or swoop at you and hit you with simple melee again and you continue to fly back and not even have a chance to recover until you hit a wall. That needs to change.
huh? thats what simple melee is... welcome to esf :fight:

KidBoy17 said:
Ki blobs should either be taken out or have the damage reduced. Also, the explosion should go out all the way when some other beam/ball hits it to make it explode. Right now, if you shoot a Fully charged SB at it, the explosion has a cap but the damage radius does not.
Ki blobs will have some changes, and i believe the explosion radius too.

KidBoy17 said:
If they keep throws in, the they should be faster. I grab a guy and spend almost 30 seconds spinning his ass around before launching him and then having him recover quickly and attacking me.
*cough* advanced melee overhaul :x

KidBoy17 said:
You should be able to pump energy into a ball attack for a ps. You should have it so right click will launch the ball and you can not pump energy into the attack and left click should have it so you launch the attack, and still able to pump energy into the attack.
Here's what you do, you fire your ball, charge up another ball and fire it, same thing is achieved, yet you have the option to be free of the energy attack at the same time. Its better like this

KidBoy17 said:
The sky, and wall's piss me off because people use it all the time to explode an attack and damage you. If you fire a beam or an ball and it hits the walls or sky, it should disappear and not explode. That makes the person try and aim more then just firing blindly and knowing its still going to hit them because of the walls and sky.
I suggested something like this in the past... not too sure if it would be a good idea though... honnestly i dont know
 
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If it hits a CLIP or NULL texture it should just fade out, because there's nothing to hit, it's just an invisible wall to stop players flying into the skybox and drowning (it's true, try it). In CS, the bullets and grenades can still go through CLIP textures but the players can't, so you can't bounce them off invisible walls around corners.
 
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KidBoy17 said:
I hate how someone will warp to you, hit you with simple melee and you fly back, and then they either warp or swoop at you and hit you with simple melee again and you continue to fly back and not even have a chance to recover until you hit a wall. That needs to change.

Ki blobs should either be taken out or have the damage reduced. Also, the explosion should go out all the way when some other beam/ball hits it to make it explode. Right now, if you shoot a Fully charged SB at it, the explosion has a cap but the damage radius does not.

If they keep throws in, the they should be faster. I grab a guy and spend almost 30 seconds spinning his ass around before launching him and then having him recover quickly and attacking me.

You should be able to pump energy into a ball attack for a ps. You should have it so right click will launch the ball and you can not pump energy into the attack and left click should have it so you launch the attack, and still able to pump energy into the attack.

The sky, and wall's piss me off because people use it all the time to explode an attack and damage you. If you fire a beam or an ball and it hits the walls or sky, it should disappear and not explode. That makes the person try and aim more then just firing blindly and knowing its still going to hit them because of the walls and sky.
1) A quicker recovery time would help fix that. Completely removing double, triple, and quadruple hits will only make the game less fun for some of the more advanced players.

2) I agree that ki blob damage should be decreased. Completely removed, not so much. From my experience (I'll speak in terms of tournaments and duels) people use ki blobs once you hit the ground, and if they have the chance they'll shoot a genball/beam into it. I don't really know about sb's hitting ki blobs because I tend to avoid those kinds of players (they usually don't offer a challenge anyway).

3) Throws should be faster, BUT people should be able to get out of a throw and throw distance should be shortened. As it stands, if someone with a moderately full ki bar catches you in a-melee, he can fully charge a throw, throw you into the ceiling, swoop up and hit you again, stay directly underneath you so you can't recover (you lie flat on top of his head) and then he can just drop and shoot a fully charged gen beam or a volley of ki blasts at you. You are completely defenseless in this situation, and that doesn't really belong in esf.

4) While the walls and ceiling can be used to hit enemies more easily, I find that people who know what they're doing will detonate it before it hits the person/s or just beam jump from the ground. If they're feeling lazy, yes, they can beam jump off the ceiling or walls and you're right about that not belonging in esf.

Come on peoples o_O. Post some flaws or something that you dislike about 1.2. As you can see, dev members do in fact read threads.
 
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TBH, the only thing I dislike about ESF atm is the amount of chasing that's involved.

Lets say you've just joined a game, you see someone spamming mouthbeam or kame, and they basically know what they're doing. So you go and charge them and bam there goes the Kame beamjump.

I would much rather have all beams with the exception of generic and powerbeam/masenko be like the finalflash. Unable to move and unable to beamjump from it. Although that is not how the show was I think it should be like that. I know it was like that in 2.0 and many people didn't seem to have a problem with it in my perspective. But if you think about it, this will cut down the amount of spamming tremendously.

-LoKi
 
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Hmm, I've written a couple threads in the suggestion forum with a bunch of ideas mentioned, but I'll summarize them here.

Gameplay

HP: Zeonix's HP suggestion is literally what I mentioned in an HP thread ;p. Basically I said, "Its way too easy to die in ESF. On top of that 1.3 knockbacks are going to be changed to allow more then 2 hits, so if a player manages to get in a multi hit combo + generic beam, that will leave the enemy pretty much dead." I mentioned that hp should be raised, or basic melee damage should be reduced. Both combined would be nice too.

Recovery. Yea I agree. The recovery time is too slow and it leaves a player completely defenseless. It needs to be a little faster. There should also be a way to let a player recover immediately but at the cost of some stamina or ki. It can lead to some surprise attacks and movement.

Ground attributes: Right now there is no real advantage for fighting on the ground, so that turns ESF's fights to be fought 90 percent of the time in the air. I suggested some ideas to give a player some advantages for fighting on the ground.
- A player can brace himself on the ground and moves backward at a much slower pace when he is in a block struggle. This one can go one better and give the ground person a pretty decent advantage. (Right now, its sort of like that in ESF because the person in the air is losing ki slowly, but its barely noticable to where it would turn the tides in a battle.)
-Teleports use slightly less ki on the ground.
-I suggested that swooping on the ground would be turned into a running animation with no aura. It can let players be more stealthy. Running on the ground should also use almost no ki.

Beam splash damage
Right now, beam splash damage is really cheap in this game because there is no way to block it. All players have to do is detonate a large beam within close range to the enemy and can deal out like 90 percent of the beam's damage. I think the block feature should be tweaked, and if you are holding block when a beam gets detonated in the air, the player should lose almost no hp damage.

Throws
I read the design documents for 1.3 (Throw's are found here: http://www.esforces.com/team/design_docs/esf13melee_design_candidate.pdf) , and they are doing a good job on fixing the throw. They mentioned a bunch of tweaks that would really fix it, and are also adding a quick throw. But one thing they didn't mention is the Throw Time. It takes wayyy too long to throw someone, and it slows the game down alot. Throw time should be shortened, and I think the spinning should be a little faster then what it is now.

And for the finish, my Beam Suggestion. --->

Ki Blast and Beams

"I believe that ki blasts and every single beam attack in esf are overpowered to a degree. If you look at the competitive side of esf, all big beam attacks are banned from use because they just do too much damage. Other things are banned from matches but most of those things are being fixed in 1.3 (like rolling combo, block to adv. melee, etc).

I also believe that ki blasts are overpowered too. They do so much damage, and can kill an enemy off fairly easy (if they are on the ground) and quickly.

One thing that could help esf overall in the competitive side of things is to reduce hp damage when hit by ki blasts and beams. Giving big beams the ability to kill an enemy in one blast is too much. It also leads to easy kills with very little skill involved, so they get spammed in public servers.

If the damage was reduced to a reasonable amount, then they would not be frowned upon so much and would actually be used in clan matches. The only time I see big beams actually doing alot of damage in esf is when you go into beam struggles. Their strength can be powerful during those times."
 
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Tony, I agree with you alot about the Beam splash, Ki Blast and Beam suggestions. Good job man.

the ground idea you have got me thinking about something. In Tenkaichi you fight alot of the time on the ground, if you are meleeing. When you do melee in that game, alot of the hits knock your opponent back to the floor. Esf's is kinda weird because there isn't console melee, there's rushing to initiate melee. If esf could have it so there is more meleeing like console games, I'm sure it would work out better. When I say console, I mean like Arcade style in a 3d world.
 
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KidBoy17 said:
Tony, I agree with you alot about the Beam splash, Ki Blast and Beam suggestions. Good job man.
;p
KidBoy17 said:
When I say console, I mean like Arcade style in a 3d world.
Yea, thats why they are re-making 1.3 advanced melee. Its going to be pretty similiar to that, instead of the arrow thing.
 
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Oh ok. That should work out alot better then. If you can have real time fighting instead of input and wait fighting, battles should get way faster. Glad they are finally doing that. Actually, if ESF does this, this will be the first time in PC fighting history.

I think the characters speed should be higher.
Like max speed should be around 3 or 4 hundred and then lowest should be 2 hundred. This will make swooping way faster and will make the jumps not so huge when the characters have more forms.
 
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Another tiny little suggestion: Jumping shouldn't use ki. Ever.
 
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Another tiny little suggestion: Why can't we just jump off the ceiling like we do the floor? It's not like it's impossible because they can fly. So jumping off of the ceiling should be do-able
 
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Well.. the "ceiling" is actually supposed to be the sky.. so uh.. you want to jump off of the sky?
 

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Yep. Screw realism, I say.
 
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Would having it so all moves and swooping did not drain as much ki be good or bad? I know this would be more true to the show because in DBZ it was fight, fight fight then power up like 15 minutes later. In ESF its fight, power up, fight power up, swoop and power up. I do not know if this would be better or not.

Also, the turbo size should increase each several million pl gained. So at 3 or 4 million it increase, 7 or 8 increase and then at 10 its at its max size. the increase should be in .25 intervules(sp?) so the aura does not get outrageous.

Also, beams should increase in size as well in the same manor as the turbo aura I just suggested. And beams should get bigger in size when you have your turbo aura on.
 

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KidBoy17 said:
Would having it so all moves and swooping did not drain as much ki be good or bad? I know this would be more true to the show because in DBZ it was fight, fight fight then power up like 15 minutes later. In ESF its fight, power up, fight power up, swoop and power up. I do not know if this would be better or not.
It would be worse, a lot worse. That would eliminate a part of the game (arguably one of the most important parts of the game), Ki Management.
 
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Well, how about making them not take AS much. So if KHH takes 6/10ths of your bar when fully charged, it should go to 1/2 (5/10) or 4/10ths of the bar. It just seems like 70% of an ESF battle is to recharge all the time.

Ok here is an idea. What if you gain back some ki from doing melee? I mean, melee should drain on stamina so that makes sense.
 
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I don't understand why using energy would make you gain energy.
 
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Zeonix said:
I don't understand why using energy would make you gain energy.
Melee isn't energy, its melee. Ki uses spiritual energy, hence why they can use that to create energy balls and beams and blow things up. You don't use Ki when you throw a punch. You use up your stamina which is a different type of energy.
 
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How does that explain why one would gain ki from using physical energy?
 

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