A GREAT melee system Idea

[VideoJinx]

What kinda principle ?

 

[Tenzo]

Why don't you just wait for the esf1.3 melee system to be created by the team? (at first it will be w.i.p)so you will be able to give any suggestions you like then!

 

[VideoJinx]

cuz its takin 4 eva x_X and i like making ideas

<3 2 the team tho GTA4 time

This idea meets these standards

- Gives new players an attractive fair ground melee againts pro players.
- Looks good.
- Beams are are possible within this melee.
- Fast paced and takes focus(Reaction Speed: Hand Eye Coordination)
- Allows Special Beam attacks
- Has room to allow teleporting within the melee
- Has Freedom for both players to attack at any time
- Has room to allow players to escape in certain situations.
- Has the possible option of having a button for punches and another for kicks or another special executions
- you can decide the strength of your attack


The only standard I see it not meeting.
- You cant sit their and select the specific type of attack, as you can when using a Controller

 

[Zeonix]

Ive explained myself several times if you listened.

AGAIN i wasnt saying use budokai features as a blueprint for ESF
and AGAIN i wasnt saying use budokai features as a blueprint for ESF

I was saying it has combat complexity using simple stuff a DESIGN PRINCIPLE that makes it popular, a DESIGN PRINCIPLE i find lacking in your idea, a DESIGN PRINCIPLE already present in the existing 1.3 Outline. For smeg sake!

Don't bother. You could write him a 5 page report on why his system is horrible, and he'd completely ignore it and say you're not seeing the bigger picture, or your mind is closed, or you're part of a fan club, or he may not even respond at all. His idea is bad, we know it's bad, leave it at that. As long as the team doesn't pick it up, we're good. And believe me, the team won't be picking this up.

 

[VideoJinx]

Don't bother. You could write him a 5 page report on why his system is horrible, and he'd completely ignore it and say you're not seeing the bigger picture, or your mind is closed, or you're part of a fan club, or he may not even respond at all. His idea is bad, we know it's bad, leave it at that. As long as the team doesn't pick it up, we're good. And believe me, the team won't be picking this up.

I must say it is bad without explaining.. another explanation successfully dodged while calling it bad ( this is the equivilant of your post )

 

[Spunky]

Jinx, do you honestly think that this is simple? That's a lot to have to worry about in melee.

- Beams are are possible within this melee.

Why? They call it melee for a reason. Because beams aren't involved.

- Has room to allow teleporting within the melee

How would this work?

- Has Freedom for both players to attack at any time

Fantastic. Now I can rapidly mash my keys hoping my attack hits first every time! Good plan!

- Has room to allow players to escape in certain situations.

What are these certain situations?

- Has the possible option of having a button for punches and another for kicks or another special executions

In addition to having to worry about my attack hitting first, how powerful my attack is, what attack I'm using, and my ping, you want me to work harder for a good looking melee fight? And yes, when you're focused that much on something, even reaching your pinky over to hit a button can be the difference between winning or losing.

Another half-baked idea from VideoJinx. It looks pretty, and it might work for a console game. But we've already got a solid base for melee, it doesn't need to be this drastically changed into crap.

 

[Zeonix]

Right, Jinx. I just read through all of Wastoid's posts in this thread, and not one of them explained his position, what he feels is wrong with the system, and how he believes a system should work if it is to be successful. Oh wait. Yes, yes he did. As I said before, write up a suggestion worth critiquing and I'll get right on it. As far as this suggestion is concerned, it isn't needed. I don't need to convince anyone why this is a horrible idea because everyone already knows it's a horrible idea. The only person left to convince is you, and your opinion doesn't matter to me.

Sorry.

 

[VideoJinx]

Spunky i'll dignify your post with a response when you bother to actually read the idea.. if you dont know the idea is stretched out in 3 posts, because i couldn't upload all the pictures to the first post

Right, Jinx. I just read through all of Wastoid's posts in this thread, and not one of them explained his position, what he feels is wrong with the system, and how he believes a system should work if it is to be successful. Oh wait. Yes, yes he did. As I said before, write up a suggestion worth critiquing and I'll get right on it. As far as this suggestion is concerned, it isn't needed. I don't need to convince anyone why this is a horrible idea because everyone already knows it's a horrible idea. The only person left to convince is you, and your opinion doesn't matter to me.

Sorry.

Another explanation successfully dodged while calling it bad....( this is the equivilant of your post)

Note: Wastoids gave his opinion on what he'd like to see in a melee system.. I have nothing against that

 

[Zeonix]

Huh??

Budokai is for the ps2, it's popular FOR the ps2...


Yea it has strategy, but it was designed FOR the ps2 controller

Esf is dbz but FOR the pc.. and FOR the mouse/keybaord..

a Systems used in budokai will NOT be good FOR the mouse/keyboard..

that was my pointz.. when i said there is a reason why budokai isn't popular for the pc..

I gotta say, Jinx. This is a perfect explanation as to why your Fight Night idea won't work with ESF. Kudos.

Don't worry, Jinx:

This post is just another explanation successfully dodged while calling it bad....

 

[Spunky]

My bad Jinx, but I honestly don't care enough to read more than one of your posts per thread any more.

 

[VideoJinx]

I gotta say, Jinx. This is a perfect explanation as to why your Fight Night idea won't work with ESF. Kudos.

Don't worry, Jinx:

This post is just another explanation successfully dodged while calling it bad....

I cant swallow my pride so I come up with bs reasons to make myself feel better ( This is the equivilant of your post )

Note 1: FightNight Isn't a DBZ game.

Note 2: It just so happens to be similar to my Idea.

My bad Jinx, but I honestly don't care enough to read more than one of your posts per thread any more.

then you shouldn't care enough to post in this thread anymore.. Good Day Sir!~

 

[Zeonix]

I cant swallow my pride so I come up with bs reasons to make myself feel better ( This is the equivilant of your post )

Note 1: FightNight Isn't a DBZ game.

Note 2: It just so happens to be similar to my Idea.

1) Fight Night is a console game. If its system can work for ESF, so can Budokai's. It's simply a matter of making it work appropriately with ESF's framework. To say that Budokai's system, a DBZ game, can never work with ESF, but Fight Night, a boxing game, can is absolutely absurd, and goes to show just how blinded you are by your own "vision". If it isn't your idea, it just isn't good. That's how you've always been, and that's why every single one of your suggestion threads has been shot down. You can claim I'm silly or can't think critically, but in the end, my/sub's suggestion threads are usually welcomed, they help the game, and team members read them and say, "Hey, that sound's good".

2) It's similar because you stole it from that game. That's fine, but let's not pussy foot around it and pretend you came up with the same exact system long after that game's release without any "inspiration".

 

[VideoJinx]

1) Fight Night is a console game. If its system can work for ESF, so can Budokai's. It's simply a matter of making it work appropriately with ESF's framework. To say that Budokai's system, a DBZ game, can never work with ESF, but Fight Night, a boxing game, can is absolutely absurd, and goes to show just how blinded you are by your own "vision". If it isn't your idea, it just isn't good. That's how you've always been, and that's why every single one of your suggestion threads has been shot down. You can claim I'm silly or can't think critically, but in the end, my/sub's suggestion threads are usually welcomed, they help the game, and team members read them and say, "Hey, that sound's good".

2) It's similar because you stole it from that game. That's fine, but let's not pussy foot around it and pretend you came up with the same exact system long after that game's release without any "inspiration".

Oh no.. my Ego/temper is about to expload I've gotta look like the winner, why cant i just stop posting..


Zeo.. no worries I'll save you.. I wont respond to your negative posts in this thread n e more.. cuz you just cant seem to give a explanation no matter how hard you try.. I'll just be the bigger man and not respond aka "walk away".

Note 1: Budoaki is a button masher game with a good amount of buttons on a controller and some depth and flashiness.. button mashing for esf has been said.. not to be good repeatedly in this forums... having too many buttons has also been said to overcomplicate things.. ontop of budokai being a button masher you also have combos a VARIETY of them.. good for the controller.. bad for the keyboard simply because if you have too few buttons.. things will be repetitive .. too many buttons.. thing swill be complicated..
Side Note: stop putting words in my mouth.. i said Budokai's gameplay systems don't suit esf..

Note 2: lawl lawl lawl, He stole it *points a finger* gtfo with that crap lol.. I told you didn't so i didn't.. Could it be that you rlly think its good so it had to be stolen* lol.. gtfo'a'here ahaha

 

[Zeonix]

Oh no.. my Ego/temper is about to expload I've gotta look like the winner, why cant i just stop posting..


Zeo.. no worries I'll save you.. I wont respond to your negative posts in this thread n e more.. cuz you just cant seem to give a explanation no matter how hard you try.. I'll just be the bigger man and not respond aka "walk away".

Note 1: Budoaki is a button masher game with a good amount of buttons on a controller and some depth and flashiness.. button mashing for esf has been said.. not to be good repeatedly in this forums... having too many buttons has also been said to overcomplicate things.. ontop of budokai being a button masher you also have combos a VARIETY of them.. good for the controller.. bad for the keyboard simply because if you have too few buttons.. things will be repetitive .. too many buttons.. thing swill be complicated..
Side Note: stop putting words in my mouth.. i said Budokai's gameplay systems don't suit esf..

Note 2: lawl lawl lawl, He stole it *points a finger* gtfo with that crap lol.. I told you didn't so i didn't.. Could it be that you rlly think its good so it had to be stolen* lol.. gtfo'a'here ahaha

And then you go ahead and respond anyway o.0.

No one is saying, "Let's just rip everything from Budokai and put it in ESF. Yeah, that's awesome. Let's have separate punch, kick and ki blast keys, let's not be able to fly..." and so on and so forth. That's you twisting words once again to suit your needs, because if you were to actually read something as it were written, it would make sense, and to you, truth is dangerous. For whatever reason, you hate it.

What was said, however, is Budokai's system has sufficient depth, but isn't weighed down by unneeded complexities, and the system itself is actually quite simple to execute. THAT is what ESF needs. ESF needs a system that has a lot of depth, but isn't overly complex, and isn't just ripped from other games, which is what you've accomplished with this thread. It's really that simple. Your idea doesn't add anything to gameplay. What it does do, and in spades, is slow down the game for everyone involved, and force us to engage in a system that is entirely based on randoms, whereas the advanced melee of 1.2 only threw a few randoms at us. You say this is somehow balanced by the fact that there are so many possibilities when it comes to attacking and defending. That doesn't somehow dismiss the fact that we're not actually in control, and we're just along for the ride. Advanced melee was bad because it took control out of my hands, was tedious and was slow. You've stolen something far worse, and suggested we use it. You obviously hate ESF.

As for you ripping this particular idea from Fight Night, don't even bother denying it. They're virtually the same. I'm not saying you had to have stolen it because the idea is so good. As I've said before, I hate it. I'm saying you stole it because it's the same exact system, and you linked us directly to the game so that we'd see how you'd like it to be. You just pulled an OJ (for those who don't understand, he murdered someone, claimed he didn't do it, later wrote a book about how he'd have done it if he were the murderer).

 

[kam!]

Jinx your idea is bad, it's horrendous to be honest. All fighting would be based on luck
and skill wouldn't matter (you yourself said it should read the sens so everyone is on equal footing).
Besides, your idea is in no way fleshed out enough to crit on it. You just said "that's how combat will work, it's awesome >insert flashy pics here<.
You haven't said:
-How the combat is initiated
-When it ends
-Why it's awesome

I don't know about you, but I want control when I fight someone. I don't want something gimmicky.
I mean your idea looks like one of those Wii games that desperately tries to use motion sensing. (I dare you to interpret any **** into this sentence like you did with WastoiD WarrioR's posts)

I guess Zeo stopped critting your idea because he sees no point. You won't listen anyways.
My previous point are still valid, you haven't really concerned them and just tried to make your idea
flashier afterwards, by adding beam attacks.

 

[VideoJinx]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NR4p30Tv6So&feature=related

I think if the esf wants a melee as shown in this vid.. the mouse is the way to go through a similar system that I thought upz...

Currently I dont see esf having such a variety of attacks without using something similar..

Adv melee didn't even have that many attacks =|

edit

I already put up that it hasn't been thought all the way through

but the system of using the mouse while it shakes is a good 1 IMO.. I put up the main idea hopin people would see it's possibilities and take it further.. guess I expected too much...

the ONLy factor that i find missing from this sort of system is the "Decision of attack" factor.. ill think about it more and see what i come up with...

also it does put everyone on a equal playin field.. but yes it still requires skill to control the mouse, but i c what you mean. Compare that to an experience swooper who chainswoops/aims/beams/melee's with perfection etc etc the new player just wouldn't stand a chance in that realm of fighting..


Think of this system as a ground system for a potentially GREAT system.. the only thing that needs to be thought of is how you could add a "decision of attacks". While keeping gameplay challenging and fast

 

[Zeonix]

@ Kam: I'm not going to waste my time by writing up a huge critique of his suggestion every time he makes one, because then I'd be on my computer all damn day, and I'd be putting more work into the critique than he put into his suggestion. When I see something worth looking at, tearing apart, rebuilding and improving, I'll do so. This thread isn't it, though.

I already put up that it hasn't been thought all the way through

And that's the goddamn problem. You make half-cocked threads over and over again, and expect us to see your vision, except you haven't given us anything to work with. I'm pretty goddamn tired of having to check back over and over again to see the full scope of your suggestion. And then, of course, you'll revise entire pieces of your suggestion somewhere within the thread, and if someone doesn't see it, you yell "READ THE SUGGESTION WTF". It's ****ing annoying.

 

[Grega]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NR4p30Tv6So&feature=related

I think if the esf wants a melee as shown in this vid.. the mouse is the way to go through a similar system that I thought upz...

Currently I dont see esf having such a variety of attacks without using something similar..

Adv melee didn't even have that many attacks =|

edit

I already put up that it hasn't been thought all the way through

but the system of using the mouse while it shakes is a good 1 IMO.. I put up the main idea hopin people would see it's possibilities and take it further.. guess I expected too much...

The question is. Do we need them?

Jinx as i said before. Having such a system that disables your mouse camera motion and throws it into a "hit the target with a shaky hand" minigame just so some premade combinations can be played out isnt my idea of a good melee system for ESF. Especially since mouse coordination is a big factor in the skill of the game. Having your mouse coordination thrown out by someone who initiates this melee is just anoying.

This system may work on a console with its 2D movement and 1 on 1 only fights. But it becomes a pain to code and a pain to use in a fully 3D movement enviroment where you need the mouse to even controll that movement.

Unlike console fighting games the movement is allways in a 2D plain and mostly you are locked onto your oponent with a fight allways 1 on 1 and noone else even near your position.

This system just doesnt work with a game like ESF that is FPS/TPS type.

Oh and added the information THX Jinx ^^

 

[VideoJinx]

The question is. Do we need them?

Jinx as i said before. Having such a system that disables your mouse camera motion and throws it into a "hit the target with a shaky hand" minigame just so some premade combinations can be played out isnt my idea of a good melee system for ESF. Especially since mouse coordination is a big factor in the skill of the game. Having your mouse coordination thrown out by someone who initiates this melee is just anoying.

This system may work on a console with its 2D movement and 1 on 1 only fights. But it becomes a pain to code and a pain to use in a fully 3D movement enviroment where you need the mouse to even controll that movement.

Unlike console fighting games the movement is allways in a 2D plain and mostly you are locked onto your oponent with a fight allways 1 on 1 and noone else even near your position.

This system just doesnt work with a game like ESF that is FPS/TPS type.

Oh and added the information THX Jinx ^^

mmk! Clarification..

There are no premade "combo's"... Each pie section is a DISTINCT single attack.. a punch/kick/headbutt ..

your not clicking the mouse to attack the Automatic shaking is what's forcing you to attack.. each distinct Automatic mouse-shake is 1 distinct attack and which ever pie section your mouse is over.. is the attack you perform and because the mouse is automaticaly shaking so fast.. you'll have a dbz speed sequence of different attacks at different strengths

as for motion/movemen it is possible.. it only takes allittle thought of how it should work

 

[Adaptus]

TL;DR

Long story short:

This system will not be used.

YOU CAN STOP ****ING POSTING NOW.