1.2 Adv. Melee vs. Simple melee (and other things)

[Zeonix]

Imagine 1.1 combos combined with chain swooping...Just 1.1 melee alone combined with chain swooping is enough to beat almost any advanced melee-er (at the moment at leasT). If 1.1 melee (with tweaks) were to be made the primary melee choice and advanced melee as some kinda secondary choice (not the meat and potatoes of melee, just something to throw the enemy off) we might have a pretty good melee system here.

 

[Ultimate 17]

One gripe I've got with 1.2 is that you don't have to be aggressive and offensive to be the best in this game. Alot of the guys will just block relentlessly until they get their counter attack time. I liked the 1.1 style much better simply because it rewarded the players who played aggressively. And since block-counter became harder to do in 1.1 with the hit delay, the benefit of being offensive was even greater.

I'd also like to mention that even the noobiest of noobs can do well enough in this game by randomly mashing arrows. I hate that the "elite" line has been washed over and that everyone has equal advantage to do well. It's been my experience that the best players in 1.1 shown thru the crowd because they played the most and had the most experience. Going back to what Statix said about putting the game down for 3 weeks, then picking it up and still being one of the best-- isn't right.

And I don't feel the fun in this game either. Its become too repetitive. People are doing the SAME "special combos" over and over. I think the game is also laid back as well. you aren't doing anything besides using one hand for the arrows during a combo. I could be sitting back, drinking a Mt. Dew, and possibly working out long division (sarcasm there >_> ) while my one hand inputs arrows to attack or block. I used to work up a sweat in 1.1-- my arms would be going in every direction trying to chain combo and position myself for the next hit. 1.2 melee requires we shower once a week to wash off the moss that accumulates from lack of body involvement.

Jerry Springer's Final Thought:
1.1 was a strong, working system with the draw-back of people complaining about "HOWing", but why not just keep 1.1 with the head-on knockback. There's no reason to change something if it works-- and it did exceptionally.

 

[SouLTeRRoR]

If the melee was like 17 said. ESF would pwn again. I got bored after a couple day's with 1.2, When I've been playing since 1.0 and I woudl only get bored for a few days then pick up the game again and it was fun again. 1.2 is only fun imo if you just use basic melee cuse it's not as easily countered and requires more skill. WE WANT OLD MELEE BACK!!!!!!!

 

[Snow]

Here are my two cents.

I have been playing ESF sence alpha (last week of alpha). And in every new version of esf sence beta you have redone melee (not so mutch in 1.1-1.2) why not instead of redoing the the system, just take out he problems and tweek it? That to ME makes sence instead of competly redoing the system.

Like what was stated above the melee in 1.2 is just to dame easy and the same over and over again (And dont say "play me and i will show u 1.2 skill", you can try and i bet anything i will still beat you) in 1.0/1.1 u had so many options, you could to the combo beam them what every u wanted, in 1.2 i can do basic melee and do the one combo u can do (unless u hit them in the ground and do it that way) or, do adv melee witch is a joke, u see arrows come across the scrren and type them in, and when u get the random one the people u play do the same thin over and over again u know what it is; every one does it so there is no "good person" to play. The best person in the server can be the new ESFn00b who is buu.

I liked in 1.0/1.1 when u joined a server and .5 the pple were ssj u had a chance to get a good score and get some kills. now with adv melee more then .5 the arrows are random and when you miss it does too mutch damage for u to even get a chance to fight back.

Perhaps you should combine the 1.1 melee with the new system. Like 17 said with the head ons in 1.2 add that to 1.1 and bam no more annoying people *****ing about the LSM and HOW. With that gone wouldnt 1.1 be perfect? Isnt that the ONLY problems people had with 1.1? SO why not just make one system PERFECT instead of makine a new one witch people dont like.

The majority of the people who like 1..2 over 1.1 are lazy people who refused to learn 1.1. 1.1 is very easy to play if u take the time to look at it, and learn it. In 1.2 u read the manual and ur set, with no time playing the game you WILL be just as good as anyone. The "elite" class of people being nothing is just wrong, i know me seeing some random newb beat and ~{ape}~ member is just wrong. All i wanna see in this patch is the 1.1 melee combined with 1.2 (the head on thing) that way people have NOTHING to ***** about.

Sorry for my bad speeling/grammer.

 

[SailorAlea]

I've noticed that all the former people who were really big on HOWing, absolutely can't stand 1.2.

I wonder why that is.

Anyway..

If you say advanced melee is too easy, then you're obviously only fighting someone who has no idea what they're doing besides entering random arrows, or someone who's entering just the combos.

There's any number of things you can do to randomize your fighting. Adding strong hits in, "fooling" your opponent by pretending you're doing one combo, and then doing the other midway really fools people, especially if there's an Random Arrow.

Because if they know you're a good player, and they see you start the combo, instead of assuming you're going to finish the combo, you change.

Throwing a kiblast after every exchange, or a generic ball/beam really spices things up, as well as using simple melee.

It's true that if you fight with a single person long enough, it does become pretty easy to recognize what they're going to do, which is why you have to force yourself to fight more erratically.

It really is sad to see so many HOWers complain about 1.2--if you bothered to sit down and learn the system as it is, you wouldn't be complaining. Just because there's no cheesy bug for you to abuse doesn't mean that it's bad.

This is an open invitation, that anybody thinks 1.2 melee, whether simple or advanced is too "easy, even a newb can beat a pro" as Snow said, that anybody who wants to fight--I'm more than up for it.

It takes more then arrows to win a fight. You have to be able to follow your opponent, catch them, and outwit them during advanced melee, as well as tack on every possible damage advance you can using energy mid-way.

 

[Snow]

Well if anyone (b-tester mainly, they seem to know everything about 1.2 and how it is better then 1.1) thinks they can "outwit" me, be my guest and when you fail what will you say?

And if you have beating me in the past, that was then and this is now.

 

[Halorin]

Hm..

I had promised to myself that I wouldn't make a post in threads like this after 1.2 came out, because I feel like I try to influence the melee portion of 1.2 in as big a way as possible, so if people didn't like, then I have a lot of blame to take, but..

I don't think you guys are really appreciating the expanse of strategy 1.2 yields. It's meant to be played in a different way than 1.1. It's more about a game of being clever and resourceful than being a one trick pony. Before, you could get by on just melee, now if you want to be really, REALLY good, you have to use what you've got, and all of it. If you feel that 1.2 is boring in any aspect, it's simply because you've tried to focus too much on one method of attack, and thus has taken yourself out of the skillful realm.

Some of the annoyances with 1.2 have been fixed in the upcoming patch, so to gripe about them now is more or less moot. I've played the sped up version of 1.2, and it's a lot like how me and Magus proposed the advanced melee to be before me and Joe compromised. I think it'll get advanced melee that 'umph' that some may be looking for.

I'm proud of 1.2, and the influence I like to think I've had on it. If you don't like parts of it, I think it's because you haven't taken the time to understand the evolution in playstyle and you're just trying to hang on to old exploits or cheap tactics.

 

[MysticUub]

honestly...i learned the ins and outs of this system in one day...ONE DAY...there is no "outwitting" your opponent when they see evey single move u are about to make...and sayin to change the combo in mid input doesnt work either...cause anyone with half a brain wouldnt get ahead of themselves...i dont know how many times ive put a heavy hit...then started the short combo then changed to the long one suddenly just to have it blocked like every other arrow...

and i dont see how u think ppl in this thread were howers...it is tru that most of the howers *cough*dray*cough* dont like 1.2 because it takes away their bread and butter...but its been mentioned several times in the last few posts that if they were to impliment the knockback feature from this version to ELIMINATE howing it would be the perfect system

 

[SailorAlea]

Well if anyone (b-tester mainly, they seem to know everything about 1.2 and how it is better then 1.1) thinks they can "outwit" me, be my guest and when you fail what will you say?

And if you have beating me in the past, that was then and this is now.

I'm not a beta tester, but it wouldn't make any difference anyway. Name the server and the place, and I'll fight you.

And, I've fought you after 1.2 came out, so don't think that this is just "me assuming your skill from 1.1."

 

[Halorin]

honestly...i learned the ins and outs of this system in one day...ONE DAY...there is no "outwitting" your opponent when they see evey single move u are about to make...and sayin to change the combo in mid input doesnt work either...cause anyone with half a brain wouldnt get ahead of themselves...i dont know how many times ive put a heavy hit...then started the short combo then changed to the long one suddenly just to have it blocked like every other arrow...

and i dont see how u think ppl in this thread were howers...it is tru that most of the howers *cough*dray*cough* dont like 1.2 because it takes away their bread and butter...but its been mentioned several times in the last few posts that if they were to impliment the knockback feature from this version to ELIMINATE howing it would be the perfect system

I'm having a hard time understanding your logic. You are trying to tell me that there is more strategy in a system that has one supreme method of attack and the ability to move in one direction than a system that allows you to move in six and offers you the versatility of a variety of attacks? I could only conclude that your brain somehow is lacking in sensible reason. I'm sorry.

I stand firm to the fact that anyone who says that there's no chance to 'outwit' someone in 1.2 is just a person who isn't mentally or logically capable of it, because I juke kids clean out of their ankle socks all the time.

 

[Snow]

I stand firm to the fact that anyone who says that there's no chance to 'outwit' someone in 1.2 is just a person who isn't mentally or logically capable of it, because I juke kids clean out of their ankle socks all the time.

Well i belive it wa said "you're obviously only fighting someone who has no idea what they're doing". so if you "juke kids clean out of their ankle socks" it means nothing because they could have no idea what there doing.

 

[SailorAlea]

Apparently you completely failed to understand what he meant by "kids."

 

[MysticUub]

well my suggestion must be being misinterpreted...

i dont suggest that we go back to the single direction swoops and all that jazz..i just mean that they should take the arrows part out...and take the tele restriction off..i DO see the advantages of being able to swoop in 6 directions rather than one..i love that about 1.2 and i use it all the time...its just i dont see y they would add the "adv" part of melee (refering to the arrows) when u dont get anywhere with it and everyone either just turns to simple melee or beam spam to get their kills...the perfect system to me...would be if they left all the swoop options in 1.2..i.e. no targets..swooping in all directions...and the head on knock back feature...and just take out the arrows...be able to "chain combo" someone by teleing and swooping in precise movements instead of either getting a predetermined combo animation or being able to hit someone with simple melee then either swoop right after them or tele once and hit them again...to me those are exploits of 1.2 (which i know are being fixed so dont get me wrong)

and to say that 1.1 and 1.0 melee isnt like dragonball z (refering to a post earlier) how is it not?...how many times have u seen someone knock someone forward...tele behind them and knock them up...then tele above them and knock them down...then beam them...ive seen that many MANY times...the only times i remember seeing a combo like what happens now..is when the fighters were either totaly even...or trunks was using his sword...

 

[Halorin]

Well i belive it wa said "you're obviously only fighting someone who has no idea what they're doing". so if you "juke kids clean out of their ankle socks" it means nothing because they could have no idea what there doing.

This is going off-topic, but..

Did you really think that I go into a server and say, "Okay.. Where are the 8 year olds because I'm looking to juke you all out of your ankle socks."

I use a lot of plays on words, and if you can't understand that, then.. Don't bother posting in response to anything I say because I don't like making off-topic posts.

 

[ShIsHi0]

Well I think it'd be perfect if we had the how snow said "perfect melee." But I think having everything cept the adv combo melee still keeping the chain swoops,throwing,and knockbacks would make this version be alot better. But thats just a thought.

 

[Snow]

I like what Uub said, that to me aswell is the perfect system. And looking what you people have said i would assume you would think the same. No "old exploits or cheap tactics".

 

[Halorin]

well my suggestion must be being misinterpreted...

i dont suggest that we go back to the single direction swoops and all that jazz..i just mean that they should take the arrows part out...and take the tele restriction off..i DO see the advantages of being able to swoop in 6 directions rather than one..i love that about 1.2 and i use it all the time...its just i dont see y they would add the "adv" part of melee (refering to the arrows) when u dont get anywhere with it and everyone either just turns to simple melee or beam spam to get their kills...the perfect system to me...would be if they left all the swoop options in 1.2..i.e. no targets..swooping in all directions...and the head on knock back feature...and just take out the arrows...be able to "chain combo" someone by teleing and swooping in precise movements instead of either getting a predetermined combo animation or being able to hit someone with simple melee then either swoop right after them or tele once and hit them again...to me those are exploits of 1.2 (which i know are being fixed so dont get me wrong)

and to say that 1.1 and 1.0 melee isnt like dragonball z (refering to a post earlier) how is it not?...how many times have u seen someone knock someone forward...tele behind them and knock them up...then tele above them and knock them down...then beam them...ive seen that many MANY times...the only times i remember seeing a combo like what happens now..is when the fighters were either totaly even...or trunks was using his sword...

If you're that adamant about chain combo'ing, then go ahead and do it. You realize you can basic melee someone more than once, right? What you're not understanding is that you aren't playing a finished product. Down the road, there will be more combos, be it general or character specific, which will add to trying to throw someone off because if there's 10 combo's that need to be known, it's easy to fake someone out. If that day comes, and I see you posting saying, "Take out the arrows because there are too many combos and it's unblockable without taking combos," then I will come to your house, take your life, leave, come back like I left something, said I did leave something and take both your soul and identity.

You aren't playing a finished game, guys. Relax.

 

[MysticUub]

well i do do it...but in 1.1 i could chain combo someone like 4 times when i was transed...now i can only do 2..weather im transed or not (unless i get lucky and they roll down a hill the right way)

and i realize its still wip...and i commend the team and the testers for the effort they have put into what we have right now...but i just dont see the point in having something in the game that isnt even being used....it just seems like a waste

 

[imkongkong]

http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=43013 ahem.. haehae if you guys wnat to read again

ON TOPIC: well i can do like 7 or 8 chain combos very easily in this mode now that the hitback from simple melee is slower, i like it slower.. you can do swooping or teleport to do the chain melee

 

[MysticUub]

i want to see a demo of u doing an 8 hit combo without the person recovering...and i will rest my entire arguement...thats just it...u cant...the system only allows 2 hits...ive tried...ive acctually swooped in...hit the person...swooped again....hit the person...then swooped a third time and couldnt hit them...i could be swooping and pounding the simple melee button and nothing would happen...