Was Gohan SSJ2 Against Dabura?

[hleV]

Thought. Mystic Gohan was supposed to have had unlocked all his power (that includes the power of his transformations) in his normal state and without needing to powerup after doing it for the first time. Normal Gohan's hair have 2 strands. And Mystic Gohan had 2 strands. But the whole fight against Super Buu he had only 1 strand (yes, even in manga). Later he was shown with 2 strands again. So it might be that Toriyama sometimes draw Gohan with only 1 strand even though he's supposed to have 2.

Anyway I still believe that Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura (there's no logical explaination for Gohan to fight Dabura evenly in SSJ1) and no electricity doesn't always mean SSJ1, even in manga. I continue to believe that regular Gohan's hair are equal to SSJ1 Gohan's hair except the color and SSJ2 Gohan's hair stand more and there's only 1 strand left on the forehead.

 

[wheres_]

How is that SSJ1 hair? His hair is exactly the same as it was in SSJ2 form. His SSJ1 Hair looked different.

He is clearly stating he is not like last time. Last time = ssj2. The official translation is even better.

[Flashback] Goku: "Get angry Gohan... remember the time you fought cell, and bring out all the power you have. You can't lose to anyone that way- anyone!"

Gohan: "I am angry... but still, I can't be the way I was then..."

 

[hleV]

Nope. Goku meant Gohan's anger, that was used to destroy Cell (Father-Son Kamehameha or whatever). Gohan has shown his ability to ascend to SSJ2 at World Tournament. And fighting Dabura as SSJ2 he couldn't get angry in order to overpower his opponent.

 

[Skiwan]

if he's able to ascend past ssj in the tournament, then why wouldn't he be able to ascend that way against dabura?

This "way he was against cell" is the way that gohan was always the most powerful when he was full of rage. It has nothing to do with the level of super sayajin.

 

[Eacos]

Dabura was stronger than Cell (Super Perfect one, I believe). At first Goku said that Dabura is probably about the same powerlevel as Cell, but later, when he fights (it must be SSJ2) Gohan, he admins that he underestimated Dabura.

Stop depending on visuals (I mean electricity) and start think logically. Gohan (who's weaker than in Cell Saga) couldn't have had fought Dabura (who's stronger than Cell) as SSJ1 evenly.

Goku died before Cell became Super Perfect, thus it was impossible for him to sense his new power level (ya know, logic). When he compared Dabura to Cell he must of definitely referred to the pre-super version. Sure Gohan was weaker than before, but Dabura wasn't using his full power, and Gohan, being in Full Power mode, managed to land a few blows without ever having the upper hand. Dabura was just toying, you can tell.

And don't be such a hypocrite, Hlev. You've defended the manga more than anybody, and now you question its authenticity when your argument seems threatened. Thing is, there's no way to be "logic". After the Frieza saga, DBZ became pure speculation. I'm with where'swarren with the manga being the prime indicator. Gohan had no electricity when fighting Dabura, or when blasting Buu's shell.

Manga is absolute. The anime is full of inconsistencies.

 

[ESCachuli]

Gohan wasn't SSJ2 agaisnt Dabura. Your point of fighting evenly is because he was just playing. He was there to make Gohan fight, not to kill him. They needed their energy for Buu.

 

[Skiwan]

Tisnt true, in the manga Gohan ascends to ssj2 in the world tournament, its even in the dialogue, lightning and all. Vegeta slates him when he does though and says he was stronger when he fought cell.

It'd be re-****ing-tarded if he didn't go ssj2 against Dabura. Kay? Kay.

 

[Deathshot]

Well I guess I figure I'm just tired of arguing the same thing again and again especially when it's all been argued here, and in so many other public forums before.

Though, I don't know, maybe it's because it all matters so much to some of you still.

Anyway, the "sparks" you're referring to I hope aren't the significant sparks which are visible in a SSJ2's aura, because the ones you see in that video clip are not the same thing. The SSJ2 aura has consistent blue sparks running around it.

They're not attack sparks, or power-up sparks, or battle sparks; they're a constantly active burst of sparks that emits from the aura surrounding a Saiyan who is in the SSJ2 state. Sometimes they're visible in the animation, sometimes they're not. That is merely an inconsistency, which you'll rarely find in the manga.

If you need reassurance of the characters' forms in that fight, either refer to the manga, or refer to how Goku's hair is drawn in most of the episodes: the lack of bangs; the two small bangs you see on either side of his forehead are a sure giveaway that he's not in SSJ1 (This is probably due to the aggressive change from SSJ1 to SSJ2, to suggest that most of the bushy look has been radically swept up through the transformation).

And this is where my arguement was headed. Goku was SSJ2 with no jolts.

 

[Dalte89]

stop hidinn skiwannnn

 

[Big Finish]

Buu was the most powerful enemy there was- and he never had sparks or an aura.

You Funimation/Budokai generation know nothing about dragonball... Arguing the most redundant of points over and over.

Yes, coz he didn't have to put effort in transformations, coz that IS his normal state...if the power is not mastered by anybody the bio-electricity comes..is that clear...?? Have you ever noticed that even when gohan was fighting cell, he was SSJ2 but later he lost his electricity...coz he was getting used to it...this is the most feasible explanation I can think of..until someone proposes a better one...

 

[Ryuuzaki]

So the hair shows us that he was ssj2 but no sparks and that might be cause there was some time after he transformed.

 

[hleV]

Goku died before Cell became Super Perfect, thus it was impossible for him to sense his new power level (ya know, logic).

Why not? SSJ3 Goku's Ki was sensed even from the Kai World. It doesn't mater if you're dead, you can still sense the powerlevel.

Manga is above anime. That's for sure. But I never said that there are no mistakes in manga. Toriyama might have missed/forgotten something, everyone makes mistakes.

 

[wheres_]

Why not? SSJ3 Goku's Ki was sensed even from the Kai World. It doesn't mater if you're dead, you can still sense the powerlevel.
.

That was making a point of the fact ssj3 ki is so great it can be felt from that distance.


And also goku and vegeta are seen to use ssj and not ssj2 during the buu saga even they should be using ssj2. I dunno. What a mess.

 

[hleV]

I found out that it was stated in Daizenshuu that Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura. It might be hard to believe for some of you, but well, he did go SSJ2 after all. Toriyama forgot the sparks then, I guess.

 

[wheres_]

I found out that it was stated in Daizenshuu that Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura. It might be hard to believe for some of you, but well, he did go SSJ2 after all. Toriyama forgot the sparks then, I guess.

Scans, source- evidence?

I found that it was stated Daizenshuu that he was infact not ssj2.

Prove/disprove?

 

[hleV]

I have no proof, but there's a reliable person who told that.

 

[Grega]

I have no proof, but there's a reliable person who told that.

If toriyama didnt draw in the sparks then he was not SSJ2. Remember this is the manga we are talking about. The sparks were never missing.

 

[hleV]

The sparks were never missing.

That's only your opinion.

 

[Grega]

That's only your opinion.

No thats the law.

You are speculating stuff. You are gorgetting that the dragonball universe was created by Toriyama. He is basically the God of that universe.

If he didnt put it there then it isnt there. All this speculation is preety much fanmade. or are you saying God is wrong.

And dont start any relligious bull****. The fact is the creator defines everything. From the basic laws to the advanced relationships and mechanics. He put sparks and lots of sparks in all fights with SSJ2 in the manga. If you ask me he even overdid some scenes with to many sparks. But if he didnt put in sparks then that means it was not SSJ2.

Its that simple. The creator is allways right. Your acusations of him forgetting to put it in is irrelevant. Even if he only forgot to put them there that doesnt matter. He didnt put them in for what ever reason so that means its not SSJ2. Debate it all you want but in the end it comes down to one simple fact.

The sparks in the manga are overdonne in all fights. For the guy who made dragonball to forget the sparks in a couple of scenes i would understand. But to forget them in an entire fight is preety much bull****.

But when i have the manga backing me up you have nothing. A fan made belief thats based on nothing but fan expectations. Basically you argue reality with fiction.

 

[hleV]

If Toriyama is the creator it doesn't mean he can't forget things. That's why it's corrected in Daizenshuu. Toriyama might have mistakenly thought that Gohan was SSJ (even though he was supposed to be SSJ2, like forgetting which form is it since SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan don't have that many differences), and in Daizenshuu he decided that Gohan was SSJ2.

I'm not saying that Gohan was totally SSJ2 there, it's just what I written above is possible and that's what I believe, that's all.