Ussj, ussj2 wah?

[SailorAlea]

1

It is impossible to know whether Vegeta could go SS2 before becoming Majin Vegeta, so the next best thing is fact-based informative guesses.
I believe he could go SS2 before Majin.

2

In other words, nobody knows, and you don't know either. All we know is you never see him as SSJ2 before he becomes Majin Vegeta, but you do see him as SSJ2 afterwards, non-Majin.

3

You're joking right? I said there's no way to know, and you said 'you don't know either'. That's exactly what I said, if there's no way to know then how would I know? I don't, and I clearly said that. Rephrasing what I said can hardly be considered as being a 'hole in my theory.'

See? You contradicted yourself, idiotically. You said "There's no way to know, but I inexplicably think this one way over another."

ONE:

Originally Posted by Ravendust
1. Majin is a relatively small fixed power boost, if Majin Vegeta could go SS2 then he must've had sufficient power to transform into SS2 before. The power boost was just enough to put him a little above Goku in terms of power.

TWO:

Pure speculation. You have no idea how much power or regenerative ability being controlled by Babadi granted him. You don't know whether he could go SSJ2 or not before, either. Also, the power boostdidn't put him "a little above" Goku, they were completely even.

THREE:

Again, saying what I already said. Congratulations. The power boost however did put him a little above Goku, they were fighting evenly up to a point, but Vegeta did have a very slight upper hand. If they were completely even then they wouldn't hit one another, but Vegeta got more hits in than Goku.

Yes, Congrautlations to ME are in order. You have NO CLUE whether or not the power boost was MINOR OR MAJOR, and you have no reason to think Vegeta had even a SLIGHT upper hand on Goku. If ANYTHING, it would've been IMPOSSIBLE for Majin Vegeta to win, why? Because Goku had another transformation in hand just in case the fight got serious enough.

Of course he was talking about Goku...Kakarot is Goku. He could have been commenting on the fact that Goku reached SS2 as well as Gohan, but I believe he was talking about Goku reaching SS2 as well as himself.

Again, I don't believe this comment was ever even made, but if it was, he was referring to Goku reaching Gohan's level, not his own(Vegeta's.)

 

[Ravendust]

See? You contradicted yourself, idiotically. You said "There's no way to know, but I inexplicably think this one way over another."

Knowledge and oppinions are different. Knowledge is absolute, oppinion can vary. I know Vegeta was a Saiyan, It is my oppinion that he could reach SS2 before he became Majin.

 

[SailorAlea]

Yes, but your opinion is baseless.

 

[Ravendust]

3. Practice makes perfect, Goku tells Future Trunks that it took him a while before he could turn Super Saiyan at will, and the same applies for Super Saiyan 2. Vegeta turns Super Saiyan 2 as soon as he gets the Majin power, which means he must've turned Super Saiyan 2 at least once before the Babidi Saga.

4. Similar to the above point. After Majin he could turn Super Saiyan 2 perfectly (fight against Kid Buu), if Majin Vegeta was the first time he went Super Saiyan 2 then he wouldn't have been able to perfectly control it in a single day.

5. He was training non-stop between the Cell Games and the Saiyaman Saga, he could've easily realised the form in that time.

That's my base.

 

[SoulStriker]

Regardless of weither or not your opinion has a "base", your opinion is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is fact. Trying to prove weither or not he could do something before a certian point is impossible unless you physically saw him do it, which you did not.

As far as I can see, you have come to a battle of wits completely unarmed. Makes for a comical read however. Good show.

 

[Lynxy]

SS pointed out the obvious, pretty much.

But whatever, I enjoy reading this kind of stuff. It makes me worry about mental condition of some lads, though.

Keep going!

 

[SSJ Shin Carl]

*To ravendust*


But you were just trying to imply your opinion was a without a doubt a fact, but since she came in here, and owned your ass with facts you changed your fact, and stated it was pure opinion.

By the way if you want to get technical stop using the english crap you call accurate as references, and use the original greatness also known as the Japanese uncut version.

 

[Lynxy]

She didn't own anyone with facts. They're both excessively repeating their opinions until one of them gets sick of it and agrees.

Originally Posted by SailorAlea
In any case.. this argument is moot, because it's old and hardly anyone cares enough about DBZ to bother arguing about it.

It should've ended there. Which it didn't. Pretty much rendering the rest useless.

But hey, thumbs up, keep going.

 

[Arthos]

In any case.. this argument is moot, because it's old and hardly anyone cares enough about DBZ to bother arguing about it.

Heh. I'm surprised to even have seen the arguement spring up again at all to tell you the truth.

I say just accept what we already know and end it there.

 

[Ravendust]

As far as I can see, you have come to a battle of wits completely unarmed.

What have wits got to do with anything? It was a battle of information, not wits. Clearly the person who came into this thread unarmed was you.

But you were just trying to imply your opinion was a without a doubt a fact, but since she came in here, and owned your ass with facts you changed your fact, and stated it was pure opinion

I believe he could go SS2 before Majin.

Note the use of the word 'believe' and not 'know'. I did that very deliberatley because I know there is no way of knowing the truth unless you consult Mr. Toriyama himself.

I will now be taking Arthos' advice and retiring from the thread. This was supposed to be a two-sided arguement, but instead it's me stating facts/oppinions/information and Alea ripping into it without providing any info herself. You're not going to change what I believe and vice versa, so any further arguing is superfluos. Post whatever you want in reply, I won't read it.

 

[SailorAlea]

She didn't own anyone with facts. They're both excessively repeating their opinions until one of them gets sick of it and agrees.



It should've ended there. Which it didn't. Pretty much rendering the rest useless.

But hey, thumbs up, keep going.

Not that I specifically care about the opinion of someone who is vilified and has been banned repeatedly over the past few years, but my quote wasn't meant to end an argument. It's true, and I believe in the validity of the statement.

Note the use of the word 'believe' and not 'know'. I did that very deliberatley because I know there is no way of knowing the truth unless you consult Mr. Toriyama himself.

Ravendust--His argument was illogical and contradictory. "There's absolutely no way to know which one is right, but I believe one way over another."

 

[SoulStriker]

What have wits got to do with anything? It was a battle of information, not wits. Clearly the person who came into this thread unarmed was you.

Any arguement is a battle of wits. Basically to see who can "out do" the other person with information and fact. Mind you, around here people tend to turn information / fact into opinion, making it less painful to smash your head on a brick wall than to try and push home a point.

Clearly its a battle of opinion (or has been turned into one) and not information. Clearly your doing nothing but talking out your arse. Get some facts or end the arguement. Those are the choices before you. You could also continue to blow hot air out of your hole, in which case I (and probably many others) will sit back and laugh at you like I already have.

 

[Skiwan]

=\ to me vegeta couldnt go ssj2 untill he got the powerup from babidi.... just my opinion however, vegeta didnt turn ssj2 untill babidi started telling him what to do, before that all visual clues of seeing ssj2 form were not there, when vegeta struggles with babidi in his mind after having that conversation with goku, we see him get angry, and then he powers up, his eyes narrow and his hair gets more spikey, and sparks of electricity start flying round. I dont think this is because he did it before either, if u remember goku says turning ssj or ascending a saiyan form comes from a need for the power, its not about how powerful you already are. The big stress and the emmotional factors linked to the part where i think we see ssj2 vegeta for the first time lead me to believe this. Afterall, gohan needed this sort of trigger himself to become ssj2.

Anyway, ussj assj watever, yeah we can clearly see the changes made in the characters appearance and power in both the show and the manga... so why argue about it? i mean there is definately a link between all these things its pretty easy to understand too. All people here are argueing about is the names, and why the hell do that? its just a waist of time, as long as the meaning of the word gets the point across isnt that all that matters >_>? oh well...

 

[Ravendust]

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I wasn't counting on finding actual-factual hardcore, original japanese, Toriyama-endorsed proof. The last page of the seventh Daizenshuu states that it took Vegeta two months of training (after the death of Cell) to reach Super Saiyan 2.

Source: http://www.dbzgtlegacy.com/importantnumbers.shtml

Hopefully now the thread can rest in peace.

 

[Rocky]

I think its funny that Raven just proved you all wrong and not one person has replied to apologise for being rude or admitting he/she was wrong.

Good work Raven, you won the day!

 

[SailorAlea]

I think its funny that Raven just proved you all wrong and not one person has replied to apologise for being rude or admitting he/she was wrong.

Good work Raven, you won the day!

I'm afraid him incidentally finding something that supports what he was saying (if the list that contains errors and typos is correct) doesn't refute his earlier stupidity in the way he chose to argue his position, nor his statement that the "thread could be layed to rest" because of a dispute unrelated to the topic of the thread's purpose had been. Perhaps you should "lift your head up above the desk" now--but I doubt you'll know what that means.

 

[Rocky]

You have a severe mental problem whereby you are unable to admit defeat or at the very least keep your mouth shut. Maybe you should lift your head out of your ass for a moment and realise that the world doesn't revolve around it and that you aren't little miss perfect.

Get over yourself for five minutes.

 

[SailorAlea]

You have a severe mental problem whereby you are unable to admit defeat or at the very least keep your mouth shut. Maybe you should lift your head out of your ass for a moment and realise that the world doesn't revolve around it and that you aren't little miss perfect.

Get over yourself for five minutes.

You contradicted yourself, and what's worse is you don't even see it.

not one person has replied to apologise for being rude or admitting he/she was wrong.

Or at the very least keep your mouth shut.

Nobody had responded at all, and now you start babbling because you got an equally rude response to your blatant stupidity?

It wasn't an issue of "defeat." He was making an argument based on nothing more than speculation, admitting that it had no basis, but saying one way over the other with no evidence. Whether he found (questionable) evidence to back it up after the fact doesn't make his prior, illogical argument, feasible.

You should get over yourself.

 

[Lynxy]

You contradicted yourself, and what's worse is you don't even see it.

What's worse is that you missed the point. And your world resolves around people forming sentences. Maybe there's a profession for that, if you're lucky.

You have a severe mental problem whereby you are unable to admit defeat or at the very least keep your mouth shut. Maybe you should lift your head out of your ass for a moment and realise that the world doesn't revolve around it and that you aren't little miss perfect.

Get over yourself for five minutes.

Agreed. She does seem to have issues.

 

[grOOvy]

Lookie what I found while browsing the forum from my uni labs. I know, an off-topic fight! Whee? The last 6 posts of this thread aren't related to the original topic, hence this thread is now closed. I have to run, so if a member of the forum staff wishes to read through and hand out warnings as/if necessary - feel free to. I'll check this thread out when I reach home and edit this sentence out to replace it with suitable warnings if no forum staff member has seen this till then.