Tonys BIG suggestion thread

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I created this thread, bringing together a bunch of suggestions. This is in case the team might have missed them. I am hoping the esf team keeps these ideas in mind as they are creating and tweaking the game along the line :).

1) Character balance- First example would be fixing buu, decreasing overall stats, lower ki, pl, attack power, etc.... Not something drastic, because he would still be known as the character who has a strong 1st form. But right now.. hitting someone 10 times only to die the 4th time when a buu hits you is not very balanced, especially when you both have recently joined the server. His beams are also powerful at the start. Right now, buu is again banned from matchplay because his first form is too strong overall compared to the rest of the characters.


Another example is Trunks's 20 percent gib melee advantage- it is only applied to advanced melee, where in match play this form of attacking is not even allowed, so trunks becomes even less useful as a character then the others.

Maybe his melee advantage should be applied to basic melee too, allowing him the ability to deal slightly more damage.

Krillen - transformation is too far away. Needs to be given to him a little sooner, and hopefully another transformation in between, so he can have 3. Stats need to be increased a little, because until he does transform he doesnt fight very well. Even when he does finally transform, I find his speed to be almost too fast gameplay wise in my opinion.

His scatter beam is not useful in a 1 vs 1 match or even 2 v 2. (assuming beams are allowed, when usually they are banned from use).

Piccolo is too slow, and his transformation doesn't really increase his stats a whole alot to stand enough chance against the rest of the characters. Needs to be tweaked to become more useful, 3rd transformation in between, needs more attacks.
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2) Attack changes

Ki blobs
- probably being worked on. The damage they deal right now is slightly high in its current state. (when your inside the blob)

Goku's kame torpedoes are not very useful at all, have bad homing and charge very slowly, at least make them charge two at a time, and if possible, make the homing better.

Attach special beam cannon - this addition is theoritically going to make the attack a little worse, because now you cannot move after shooting. This attack only goes straight. So basically this attack needs to be made better, or it will considered not as useful as a beam that can be aimed and moved around towards an opponent.

Some ideas would be, the SBC could move faster then most beams, is slightly stronger then beams that can adjust their aim around (kamehameha, galit gun, etc), or maybe some stun factor added when it hits an opponent directly.

Frieza's rapid-fire lazers are pretty overpowered when he transforms. If you can hit an enemy onto the ground and use it, it kills him wayy to fast, especially on someone with a lower PL. Very spammable at its current state.

Destructo disk - most likely already being tweaked. Some ideas for it, to be faster, a little bigger so it has a better chance of actually hitting somebody, which is next to impossible unless the opponent is not looking at you or moving at all. Also, it could use some kind of homing tweak to make them more useful like grega has mentioned before. Also being able to throw multiple mini versions of the disc would be nice, as an alternate attack.

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3) random gameplay tweaks

a) zeonix's suggestion that I agreed with. Jumping shouldn't use ki.

b) Grega has suggested that when a player starts to transform, there would be a 4 or 5 second window that he can still be shot by enemies, but for the rest of the transformation he will be invincible.

That way players cant abuse the invincibility from tran's if they saw a huge beam coming at them, but would not have to worry about being a sitting duck for so long.

c) I like how players are given the ability to hold spacebar when they are thrown straight into a wall or onto the ground so they can bounce off....

But the problem is that most advanced players always hit or throw their enemies diagonally at the ground. That makes it so you can never recover quickly, and then you get hit with a volley of ki blasts and generic beams before you can even get up, leading to even more unavoidable kills.

D) I don't really like how big beams always explode when they hit somebody. I liked sa_gohans beam hit mechanic idea, which was this. : http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=66309
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4) Gameplay suggestions

HP: Zeonix's HP suggestion is literally what I mentioned in an HP thread ;p. Basically I said, "Its way too easy to die in ESF. On top of that 1.3 knockbacks are going to be changed to allow more then 2 hits, so if a player manages to get in a multi hit combo + generic beam, that will leave the enemy pretty much dead." I mentioned that hp should be raised, or basic melee damage should be reduced.

Recovery. The recovery time is too slow and it leaves a player completely defenseless. It needs to be a little faster. There should also be a way to let a player recover immediately but at the cost of some stamina or ki. It can lead to some surprise attacks.

Ground attributes: Right now there is no real advantage for fighting on the ground, so that turns ESF's fights to be fought 90 percent of the time in the air. I suggested some ideas to give a player some advantages for fighting on the ground.
- A player can brace himself on the ground and moves backward at a much slower pace when he is in a block struggle. This one can go one better and give the ground person a pretty decent advantage. (Right now, its sort of like that in ESF because the person in the air is losing ki slowly, but its barely noticable to where it would turn the tides in a battle.)
-Teleports use slightly less ki on the ground.
-I suggested that swooping on the ground would be turned into a running animation with no aura. It can let players be more stealthy. Running on the ground should also use almost no ki.

Beam splash damage

I think the block feature should be tweaked, and if you are holding block when a beam gets detonated in the air, the player should lose almost no hp damage, decreasing beam splash damage overpowered'ness ;p.

Throws
One thing that wasn't mentioned in the design documents is Throw Time. It takes wayyy too long to throw someone, and it slows the game down alot. Throw time should be shortened, and I think the spinning should be a little faster then what it is now, seems unrealistic.

And for the finish, my Beam Suggestion. --->

Ki Blast and Beams

"I believe that ki blasts and every single beam attack in esf are overpowered to a degree. If you look at the competitive side of esf, all big beam attacks are banned from use because they just do too much damage. Other things are banned from matches but most of those things are being fixed in 1.3 (like rolling combo, block to adv. melee, etc).

I also believe that ki blasts are overpowered too. They do so much damage, and can kill an enemy off fairly easy (if they are on the ground) and quickly.

One thing that could help esf overall in the competitive side of things is to reduce hp damage when hit by ki blasts and beams. Giving big beams the ability to kill an enemy in one blast is too much. It also leads to easy kills with very little skill involved, so they get spammed in public servers.

It is very easy to just charge a beam when transformed, and throw it into a bunch of crowded players and kill them all instantly. Whereas melee it would require much more skill, time, and effort involved to score those kills.

If the damage was reduced to a reasonable amount, then they would not be frowned upon so much and would actually be used in clan matches. The only time I see big beams actually doing alot of damage in esf is when you go into beam struggles. Their strength can be powerful during those times."
 
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Whoa...big post.

1) Buu can keep the pl as far as I'm concerned. He just doesn't need to be that damn fast. Lower his hp by 10, lower his speed, and he's balanced.

Advanced melee is allowed in American matches, so it isn't completely useless. I would say to make Trunks faster since hes a melee character and lacks good beams, but with the added transformations it might be giving him too much of an advantage.

Krillin is a douchebag. I don't even know why he's in ESF. He's perfect for spamming (scatter beam), though. Give him about 30 minutes and he'll ascend unless everyone gets annoyed and starts hunting him down. That's usually what happens, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.

I completely agree when it comes to Piccolo. He needs to be faster and his trans has to actually make him on par with other characters. Just about anyone who ascends is better than a transed Piccolo.

2) In 1.3, Ki blobs won't form as quickly so that makes it less of a threat. Most of the damage will come from getting hit by ki blasts, not from being inside of a blob.

I don't give a rat's ass about torpedoes o_O. If someone isn't fighting for their kills, I'm against it.

SBC as it stands is a very good attack. I dont remember how fast sbc is offhand, but it should probably be slightly faster if it is going to be attached. Then again, it would help if people didn't try to hit targets from across the map with sbc's. Besides it's speed, it should remain the same.

People say lasers aren't overpowered because you have to aim them. I disagree. Hit someone once and they're pretty much in your sights. Unless someone realizes what you're going to do and is actively teleporting away as quickly as possible, it's a little cheap.

3) a) I agree with me.
b) I disagree. If someone is transforming in front of me, they are telling me, "I forfeit my life to you, M'lord". They don't deserve any form of protection. Ascending isn't necessary.
c) Agreed.
d) Not going to read another thread.

4) None of us like 5 hit kills so increased hp would be appreciated. Even if attacks were weakened, it wouldn't hurt to have a little more hp.

Recovery is a big issue in 1.2. A lot of the damage people sustain is due to the amount of time it takes to recover. There are times when you have 3 hp and you're holding down the left clicker, but because it takes so damn long to recover, you bump into a wall at 2 mph and die. Holding down left click should cut down the recovery time considerably.

In a game based around aerial fights, the ground isn't that important to me.

Splash damage should be decreased.

Throws should be counterable. I don't like the idea of someone running into me and quickly throwing me. I like being able to fight back. In 1.2, we were able to get out of the throw. The patches made it so that throws lasted as long and were nearly impossible to win unless you initiated the throw.

Exploits and big beams are banned for obvious reasons. Gen beams are actually pretty perfect as is. Ki blasts won't form ki blobs as quickly so they'll mainly be used as pot shots. Big beams will never be used in matches. Ever. Unless they become gen beams, they will not be used.

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These ideas were just little tweaks. I was hoping for more of a "gameplay" thread.
 
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Another example is Trunks's 20 percent gib melee advantage- it is only applied to advanced melee, where in match play this form of attacking is not even allowed, so trunks becomes even less useful as a character then the others.
Trunks acutally does have a advantage in simple melee, his simple melee hits are faster. You will notice this as if you were to block a trunks player that knows how to play the game can perform very many melee hits at very high speeds. Some people consider it a glitch, some consider it a advantage.
 
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Yep. There isn't a hit delay for Trunks. If someone playing as Trunks is blocking, you'll have to hit his side.
 
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b) I disagree. If someone is transforming in front of me, they are telling me, "I forfeit my life to you, M'lord". They don't deserve any form of protection. Ascending isn't necessary.
Bah dont belive tony >.>

My idea was similar but he tweaked it.

The actual idea was that during those 5 serconds you could be knocked out of a transformation using melee (1 melee hit). After the 5 seconds are up you become imune to all form of damage.
 
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1.balancing :
Buu's power come from his pl if he had a lower pl he will have lower dmg the beams dmg ar made according whit the pl if buu had abou 1 000 000 pl or 1 100 000 you will see the diferent
Trunks realy does have a small advantej agains other player at melee
Krililin transfomation it's perfect as it is and scouter shot agains 2 vs 2 krililin rullz even agains 1vs 1 if you git him directly whit the scouter shot it will instantly kill him because the scouter shot dmg it's like the spirit bomb dmg
Picolo it's good as it is it just need a biger hp and a small incress in speed
2.attacks:
ki blast realy does a lot of dmg it need to be change
what ar you talking about kametorpilo ar the most spamabal things ever 2 or 3 goku's doing about 14 to 21 kametorpilo and the hole server down (like on my server) Goku's kametorpilo suld be limited at 2 max (that's the max he use agaist frieza)
and btw Gohan used kametorpilo agains dabura will he have them 2 ?
Special beam cannon it's going to be change no more moving i don't know anything else
Frieza rapidfire laser on like his finising move so no it's good as it is
distracto disk and frieza disk need to be a little bit more faster
3.random tweaks
yes jumping suld not use ki
I like gregas ideea
trowing it's going to be change
4.game play sugestion
yes hp suld be change and bigger
recovery have to be much faster and if posible to telepor in recovery
Gound atribution well I bet you don't know but if your on the ground and a beam explods you will practicly recive al most no dmg i say that the ground attribus it's good as it is
splash dmg sult be change
like i'v sayid trowing it's going to be change
Kii and beams
Beam's ar good as they ar they just need a litte smaller max dmg and size
beam it's for the guys that ar new and they need to know a few things if you make them to small and fast charge beams it will be only a beam fight
yes ki blast ar overpower but there going to be change
the esf 123 melee it's verry borring mostly advance melee beams ar more fun so the beams ar going to be change the explosion dmg will be smaller only the direct hit will do the most dmg
 
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Krililin transfomation it's perfect as it is and scouter shot agains 2 vs 2 krililin rullz even agains 1vs 1 if you git him directly whit the scouter shot it will instantly kill him because the scouter shot dmg it's like the spirit bomb dmg
No its not >.>

Spiritbomb takes the PL from the servers average. Scatershot takes it from Krillins PL. The only reason why its stronger with a direct hit is cause you actualy hit him twice. Once from the main blast and a second time from the small blast that shoots out of the main blast.

Kametorpedo is fine. And gohan never ussed it it was a normal genball.

Jumping will use stamina read the design docs.

To lazy to go through the rest >.<
 
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No its not >.>

Spiritbomb takes the PL from the servers average. Scatershot takes it from Krillins PL. The only reason why its stronger with a direct hit is cause you actualy hit him twice. Once from the main blast and a second time from the small blast that shoots out of the main blast.

Kametorpedo is fine. And gohan never ussed it it was a normal genball.

Jumping will use stamina read the design docs.

To lazy to go through the rest >.<
Yes your right about that scouter shot hiting 2 times , kametorpilo ar to many of them si Gihan suld like have generictorpilo ?
 
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The best way to balance ESF is giving every character the same stats.
And Volkov: i didn't know that kuririn shoots scouters:laff: :laff: :laff: :laff: :laff: .
 
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The best way to balance ESF is giving every character the same stats.
And Volkov: i didn't know that kuririn shoots scouters:laff: :laff: :laff: :laff: :laff: .
to give evryone the same stats will suck
 
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Thanks for going through most of it zeonix.

Yea i didn't have to go through the whole splash damage being overpowered thing, because its already being fixed. But I still didn't think it was enough to fix it, because its still unblockable and 90 percent of the time, people detonate it next to their opponent. Thats why I brought up that if you are holding block before the blast goes off, then you shouldn't receive any splash damage.

Trunks instant hit is not as useful because he is a bit slower then the rest of the characters. Maybe the new transformations will help fix that.

Bah dont belive tony >.>

My idea was similar but he tweaked it.

The actual idea was that during those 5 serconds you could be knocked out of a transformation using melee (1 melee hit). After the 5 seconds are up you become imune to all form of damage.
lol grega, thats exactly what i said, shot at / recieve damage, meant the same thing. I see how yours is though, basic melee only.

After 5 or 6 seconds, you would be invulnerable. There has to be a 5 or 6 second window so players cant turn on transform to avoid a big blast or something.

Eh, ascending shouldn't be about, finding the best hiding spot in the map because your so vulnerable. It should be a choice by the player at the time of the fight (should I ascend, at the risk of higher ki usage, but also become more powerful, which is how it will be in 1.3) More along those lines I guess. It takes so long to transform, players are guaranteed to be hit without any sort of protection after like 6 seconds.

I brought up kametorpedoes and krillens scatter shot because I have to assume that most of the time a fight will be one on one. Those attacks become almost useless.

Big beams will never be used in matches. Ever. Unless they become gen beams, they will not be used.
Yea they are always banned because of the high damage, and splash damage. If those both get reduced to a reasonable amount, then there would be no reason to ban them. (little bit more damage then a gen beam, but keep ki costs and charge time).

Big beams could become stronger like they are now during beam struggles.

I find it rather lame to ban attacks (or anything) in the game when they should be fixed instead. Im hoping the team tweaks it properly, instead of making attacks in 1.3 only to find out the attacks get banned anyway in match play.

4) None of us like 5 hit kills so increased hp would be appreciated. Even if attacks were weakened, it wouldn't hurt to have a little more hp.
Yea its something im stressing alot, because imagine in 1.3 when the 2 hit cap limit gets removed, it will be even easier to die if someone pulls off a good combo.

________________

How do you guys feel about the solar flare. Not good enough? I think the ki usage and blind time limit is good, but the range seems a bit small, and kind of hard to hit somebody with.
 
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If large beams became nothing more than slightly better gen beams, then they will have lost what makes them appealing. If those beams are weakened (I doubt they will be), it won't be to the point where we'd allow them. Large beams are intended to do large amounts of damage.

Solar flare is perfect as is. It blinds you for a long ass time, and it's relatively easy to catch someone with it.

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While I think these little tweaks might make the game a bit more fun, it isn't something that would make me want to start playing everyday or bring old players back. The only 2 from the list I'd really like to see are better recovery and more hp. ESF needs more than just a few tweaks at this point.
 
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ol grega, thats exactly what i said, shot at / recieve damage, meant the same thing. I see how yours is though, basic melee only.
No you missed the idea compleetly again. Atleast the 5 seconds part. During those X seconds (and 5 was an example 2 could also do) your oponent is able to cancle out your transformation. If he shoots you with a beam or any form of melee you recive damage and are knocked out of transforming. But after the X seconds are up you are imune to any kind of damage and are is not possible to knock you out of a trans untill you finish transforming.

If that still aint clear get me on MSn and ill walk you through it step by step.
 
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SBC of piccolo is already fast no need to go fast and in the DBZ episode piccolo and other users of SBC cant move the SBC around like kameha.
and its already hard to win SBC when u go ps with kame vs SBC the kame guy is just standing there with 1 kame in ps while SBC u can shoot it many times i think SBc dont need any more speed cuzz u can use it many times while in ps
 
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even in multi ps piccolos SBC whould win anyways cuzzz he can make more than 1 SBC and others can only make 1 beam and wait till they get killed goku or other whould win if it was 5 mil vs piccolo 2 mil plus i thing SBC should need a longer time to load like in episodes hes time whould take like vegetas bigbang
 
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nah but see your missing the point. In 1.3, it will become attached, meaning you can only shoot one at time. And SBC only goes straight, no way to aim it around. So it needs to become a little better in order to compete with the other big beams. I suggested for it to have a bit more speed then the others, or have some kind of stun factor if it hits someone directly.
 

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