tier bonuses

[Disguise]

Well you know, embellishing negative thoughts never created anything worthwhile. I suppose in my attempt to spite you, I'm guilty of the same. So I'll jump back to what you said before.

Don't be put down by these frank words though, a bunch of my ideas have been put down with hardly any interest in them.

Per last post, you're right, arguing about who's right and who's wrong, who's better or worse, has no winner. But when ideas are shared, it's a win-win.

So I'd be interested in them if you wanted to open a new thread.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

If I were to be constructive I'd say the tier concept you got going on is not so different than reaching certain PL's. All in all it's just a way to give it a more formal structure.
But whatever it's not like I want to duke it out with a tester anyways

it changes the transformations into more of an attack rather than another level.

Sudaka
Jesus...you've really must of thought that through. The sheer fact that you have resorted to discuss semantics tells me your're trying to win a non-existent argument that you yourself somehow created because of your apparent lack of tolerance for criticism. There isn't anything to win, theres no point in trying to sound smart either.

I don't like Darkown's idea and your expanded version either.

That's it.

...?

Sudaka
I personally would love for something like this to be implemented, but the amount of models, additional transformations, animations and sound effects means adding a bunch of additional work to a mod that, IMO, is looking more amazing then it should have the right to.

1. ??????
2. stop arguing, the two of you.
3. sudaka, countless suggestions are added into 1.3. a large majority of them have been blended together. if i were allowed i could dig up at least 30 suggestions that have been implemented in some way or another. and thats not even counting the ideas that have been concocted thanks to them.
4. trust me when i say it only SEEMS like no one pays attention.

 

[Eacos]

Sorry for the inconsistency. It's called a rage post (ftw), happens when you want to get someone off your case (or nuts).

That's just it though, the whole "adding stuff in secrecy" thing has been going on ever since I can remember with almost no feedback from the Devz. Yeah it might not be official but it's still intellectual property that should be given its proper credit. But whatever, that's just me.

 

[Grega]

Since when has the team not said thank you for your ideas uppon release?

 

[Eacos]

Since when has the team not said thank you for your ideas uppon release?

I don't know Grega, I've never actually seen a thank you thread or some sort of approval for any suggestions, apart from you though. Maybe I'm blind.

 

[Skiwan]

Well, afaik never does an idea directly get picked up from the forum and dropped into the gameplay, since most suggestions do not account for our current plans or designs, even if it does that doesn't mean that the whole team will agree to it. What does tend to happen with suggestions that are put to the team, is we take into account everything thing we can, think what's the most logical way for it to be adapted and then it may be implement in a form that may or may not be similar to the similar suggestion here, the original workings of a suggestion may totally be disregarded but the idea behind still being addressed.

Idea's evolve, we thank all the community for contributing over the years, but I fail to see the point in giving individual credits for suggestions, the list would be too long and too hard to keep track of. I've suggested many things during team meetings that have gotten ingame, yet I won't be in the credits list for my ideas, nor will many of you ever know what ideas were mine, I'll be under 2d/3d artist, the reward I get for putting effort into my suggestions is a better gameplay experience for everyone.

 

[Damaera]

Now now, let's calm down, ladies. Arguing isn't going to get you guys anywhere.

C'mon Grega you're holding out on us. As long as light has not shined upon the community, regarding melee, there's gonna be more and more suggestions like this. Not that it's bad, but its bottomline generic.

We're still developing and designing melee, and it isn't something that we can reveal all at once. You can demand updates as many times as you want, but that still won't change the fact that we will update the thread when it's ready to be updated.

Besides, adding models and stuff will be a breeze when 1.3 comes out...
(Grega pops out of nowhere and proves me otherwise)

Adding models has always been easy ever since the Alpha days. Unless you're referring to custom models, then yes, it will be a breeze. Just know that we will be adding some limitations to the XML Tool. As in, you guys won't have access to everything.

My bad. I actually wasn't referring to Darkowns . Mixed up some names!

There's nothing to discuss by the way. If you're a new member then you would probably guess from the apparent lack of interest that these suggestions are very overlooked. I myself have no right to put down your intellectual ingenuity, but then again I feel I need to share my thoughts whenever it pleases me to do so.

Besides, as Grega said, the Devs probably have a whole outline of melee concepts already underway.

Don't be put down by these frank words though, a bunch of my ideas have been put down with hardly any interest in them.

As said above, we're still designing and implementing the new melee system.

Sorry for the inconsistency. It's called a rage post (ftw), happens when you want to get someone off your case (or nuts).

That's just it though, the whole "adding stuff in secrecy" thing has been going on ever since I can remember with almost no feedback from the Devz. Yeah it might not be official but it's still intellectual property that should be given its proper credit. But whatever, that's just me.

We don't secretly add suggested features. It's not that we don't want you guys to know that we've been adding suggestions to the game, it's just that they don't have a chance to be featured in one of the updates. I know it's frustrating for you, but we can't just instantly announce that a suggestion has been accepted and will be implemented.

I don't know Grega, I've never actually seen a thank you thread or some sort of approval for any suggestions, apart from you though. Maybe I'm blind.

We do give credit. It's not an official thank you, but we do put your names in the credit list.

---
Since you guys are bickering about the team not caring, I guess it's time to shed some light on this subject (even though this has been said many, many times). We pay close attention to the Suggestions forum and if we see a decent suggestion, we bring it up in the team meeting. If the rest of the team agrees on adding the suggestion, then we think of ideas so we can either add on to the suggestion or change a few things. Many of us reply to suggestion threads, but if we decide on implementing a suggestion, we won't find the thread, post "Suggestion accepted", and then close the thread. It's not like we don't want to, but if we did that for every suggestion, we'd be revealing a lot of information.

Now let's stop arguing and get back on topic.

 

[Grega]

No dam. There is no credits list past the dev team members and testers.

But there is allways an officail thank you for the support you are giving us every single release and sometimes in betwean to. And suggestions are support.

Regarding melee. Read up on the last dev meeting dam.

 

[Damaera]

No dam. There is no credits list past the dev team members and testers.

But there is allways an officail thank you for the support you are giving us every single release and sometimes in betwean to. And suggestions are support.

Regarding melee. Read up on the last dev meeting dam.

Sure there is. Look at the 1.2 credits list: http://skinner3d.com/esflib/Manuals/1.2.x/

Yes, I'm aware of what we said last meeting, what about it?

 

[sub]

I don't think any of those names in "Thanks To" were being thanked for submitting an idea. I can name why a few people there were put on the list, and it's for things such as CS-Land releasing a pack that made 1.1 compatible with Steam.

In any case, this seems silly to argue about to me. When you suggest something, you're doing it because you want to help the game improve / you enjoy talking about these things, not because you want your name on a credit list or to be officially thanked. I'm sure it would be nice if everyone could be thanked, but I don't think you can feasibly thank everyone responsible for submitting / influencing an idea that gets put into the game.

As for suggestions here being overlooked, I'm sure there are many suggestions that are. But if a suggestion is good, I think at least someone from the Dev Team will see it and bring it up if they think it'll fit in well with the game. Hell, I think one of the reasons I became a Beta Tester was because I made a huge thread outlining everything I thought was wrong / should be changed for 1.3. But the problem is, it's hard to make relevant suggestions based off of 1.2.3 / not knowing the current state of the game.

The bottom line, at least for me, is that I'm sure I'd feel differently about this if I didn't have a good idea on how ESF: Final would be. Hell, I definitely remember posting (many times...) about how the team would go off, complete a design and then reveal it once its finalized and won't be changed. 1.2's Advanced Melee was done this way and we all know how that turned out. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that both sides point of view is understandable. When you're making a game / designing something, outside views can definitely be useful, sometimes you get so attached to what you're creating that you tend to ignore / not see the faults. Although in this particular case, I think the melee design that's already out there is pretty good.

As for the actual idea, I'll talk to you on Steam about it sometime DaRk, I think I've done enough typing for now

 

[Disguise]

Sorry, Stealth. I thought about it after the fact and it really wasn't good of me to put you on the spot. It wasn't the criticism itself that bothered me, but the way that it was presented. Then again, what you say and what I hear can be different, and I could've handled it better.

On the bright side, we got encouraging feedback all around from the team, so it's not all bad.


I think before you mentioned that these ideas seemed a lot like more of the same; a formal PL structure. Imo, I think that it acts more as a way to level the PL differences between characters... for a duration. Like if you used it during the beginning of the fight, and you couldn't keep the pace for whatever reason to make it last the whole time, then you could have full health, no stamina, and set yourself up for failure.

If you use it towards the end of the fight after you knock them away, or when they're low on stamina and you're already hurt, it can be a great way to gain the edge.

If you use it when a perma character is transing towards the end of the fight, it can help you match them and finish it.

On the other hand, by doing this, you're relying on the fact that you can chase and hit them if they run. You also give up what you could've done throughout the entire fight with the SAM bar as well, which might have been more effective than the gain in this transformation. It's really best used to close the gap against stronger opponents as you can maintain it longer, possibly from beginning to end.

So the way I see it, it tends to break the formal PL barrier and allow some variation. I can see how it could be more of the same though in some cases, especially if certain conditions aren't met, like the SAM bar working the way I'd want it to. It mostly depends on how well it fits into place.

EDIT: If you used this when a player was low on stamina, you could build up the SAM bar by fighting them a bit longer than usual (kind of like glorifying the new state a bit at the same time), knock them down, and use a normal Ki attack to finish them before dropping out of it. If your attack isn't strong enough, you're screwed. Their stamina would be zero, and you could make it regenerate at half the rate for the next 10 seconds... or something.

 

[wheres_]

Vegeta: USSJ or Majin, when he can't transform into SSJ2 yet (if Majin, then after you became Majin, you can transform into Majin SSJ2).

Vegeta was able to transform into ssj2 before he gained the extra little M on his head. Go read the manga. He explains how he thought he would have been equal with Goku aside from the fact he knows Goku would be better because of his natural talent.

He didn't need Babidi to help him get to ssj2, he just needed it to equal out the difference between Goku and himself.

Also! he only transforms into a regular ssj during his transformation into Majin Vegeta.

Then just before he and Goku fight, Goku transforms into a ssj2 saying he wants to finish the fight quickly and not give any energy to Buus ball.

Then following his lead directly after Majin Vegeta transforms from ssj to ssj2, quite casually with a smirk.

He knew he could transform into ssj2 well before fighting Goku, he just didn't know if his ssj2 was as strong as Gokus.

 

[hleV]

OK, I wasn't sure if Vegeta could transform into SSJ2 before becoming Majin, but I knew everything else you wrote.

How about this then:

While Vegeta is SSJ and can't transform into SSJ2 yet, he can use tier bonus to transform into USSJ (only if he wants to, because that transformation decreases speed and should consume more ki/stamina). Sounds like EVM, LOL.

I'm not sure about Majin form because making it for both SSJ and SSJ2 is logical.