The Details of the Super Saiyan Forms

[jblaze101]

Yep, that's basically the only solid evidence there was. Vegeta explains that the last SSJ had to transform into the Oozaru state in order to control his power. Unfortunately, the Saiyan couldn't control the Oozaru state, so he went on a rampage and destroyed the planet he was on.

This is the Oozaru you see while Vegeta was explaining the last SSJ:

IT wasn't in the damn manga, therefor is FILLER.

therefor it isn't Canon.

it was made by Toie Animation because they had ideas of GT before DBZ was done. As you know ,they added that because Akira was supposed to end it at frieza, where goku turned supersaiyan. Then they wnted something else, but Akira's editors wanted him to continue so They made GT at the very end, including the Golden Oozaru.

Gigi aswell is not Canon, therefor its not really a transformation

 

[Nuttzy]

canon or no, it did happen did it not?

seeing as they exist in one, and not in the other, its clear which one we are actively discussing =P

 

[MC]

IT wasn't in the damn manga, therefor is FILLER.

therefor it isn't Canon.

it was made by Toie Animation because they had ideas of GT before DBZ was done. As you know ,they added that because Akira was supposed to end it at frieza, where goku turned supersaiyan. Then they wnted something else, but Akira's editors wanted him to continue so They made GT at the very end, including the Golden Oozaru.

Gigi aswell is not Canon, therefor its not really a transformation

I know it wasn't in the manga. Toei Animation had ideas for Dragon Ball GT towards the end of Dragon Ball Z, not before it, though it can be debated that they were planning a sequel (which eventually turned into Dragon Ball GT). Akira Toriyama approves of the SSJ4 state, so technically it could be considered canon (at least the existence of the SSJ4 form).

Akira Toriyama wanted it to end after Frieza, but due to numerous death threats he received, a lot of negative feedback from the fan community, plus a little "motivation", he decided to continue.

The "gigi" state was shown both in movie 4, and in the show, but the episode in the show was nothing more than a filler.

 

[MF29]

www.myfavoritegames.com

 

[jblaze101]

I know it wasn't in the manga. Toei Animation had ideas for Dragon Ball GT towards the end of Dragon Ball Z, not before it, though it can be debated that they were planning a sequel (which eventually turned into Dragon Ball GT). Akira Toriyama approves of the SSJ4 state, so technically it could be considered canon (at least the existence of the SSJ4 form).

Akira Toriyama wanted it to end after Frieza, but due to numerous death threats he received, a lot of negative feedback from the fan community, plus a little "motivation", he decided to continue.

The "gigi" state was shown both in movie 4, and in the show, but the episode in the show was nothing more than a filler.

Well he sold rights to it so i don't know if he approved of it .

he only did concept art as well.

 

[J-Dude]

The "gigi" state was shown both in movie 4, and in the show, but the episode in the show was nothing more than a filler.

Huh??? Point me to the episode dude! You got it on youtube, what? What saga is it in, what were the circumstances??? I'm dying from curiosity!

 

[Skiwan]

he only did concept art as well.

Only concept art Akira did scince dbz was brolly and the latest super dbz concept art for frieza, all other creations weren't his. If Akira had any influence over gt, he would've based it around Uub, scince even his recent joke manga's (Neko Majin Z) indicate he would've had a more substantial role.

 

[MC]

Huh??? Point me to the episode dude! You got it on youtube, what? What saga is it in, what were the circumstances??? I'm dying from curiosity!

Episode 180 - Warriors of the Dead

Goku supposedly used the "gigi" state to defeat the Ginyu Force in Hell/HFIL.

Note that this is considered a filler episode as this wasn't in the manga.

 

[Sandstorm]

Episode 180 - Warriors of the Dead

Goku supposedly used the "gigi" state to defeat the Ginyu Force in Hell/HFIL.

Note that this is considered a filler episode as this wasn't in the manga.

Nice, thank you for that reference. I had totally forgotten about that episode.

 

[MC]

The reason it's constant with a Super Saiyan 2 and 3 and not level 1 is because they are generating a lot more power. If a regular Super Saiyan were to generate as much power as a Super Saiyan 2, he would also have the same electrical effects. Gohan after his hidden power was awakened by the Old Kai had massive lighting effects. But he wasn't even a Super Saiyan.

Taken from Wikipedia.org:

There is some difficulty distinguishing between the first and second forms due to the their being similar in appearance, and that Toei placed lightning on random auras with no sense of consistency in the anime. In the manga, it is easy to differentiate between them due to the second form's electricity surrounding the aura. There is also some change in the user's hair that can been seen if inspected closely.

I looked through the manga and it seems that everytime anything above a SSJ is shown, they are engulfed with "bio-electricity" (term taken from Wikipedia).

Nice, thank you for that reference. I had totally forgotten about that episode.

Anytime.

 

[TheGamer297]

It seems to me that the "giji" form is just when they generate enough Super Saiyan energy to shift their hair and bring up an aura, but not enough to cause the transformation.

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC View Post
A SSJ wouldn't be able to generate as much power as a SSJ2 since the SSJ forms multiply the power, thus the SSJ form will never be able to generate the same amount power as the SSJ2 form. My theory is that the SSJ forms intensify a Saiyan's energy rather than increase it, which to me makes perfect sense. So the intensity of a SSJ's energy is less than the intensity of a SSJ2's energy.

Gohan didn't generate any lightning when his aura was visible, only when he first received the unlock by Elder Kai.

Yes a Super Saiyan could generate as much power as a Super Saiyan 2. For instance, take Goku when he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2. Then just take any Saiyan, and increase their strength so when they transform into a Super Saiyan, they are as powerful as Goku is in Super Saiyan 2 form. The fact that they are both generating that much sheer energy and power, they would both have the electrical effects around their bodies. And yes, I know that Super Saiyan 4 is a real Super Saiyan form, but in "My Opinion" it's something a bit different. Anything I express on this thread is purely opinion. And while I'm at it, I don't think USS is an actual form. I believe it's just Super Saiyan, when they pump a lot of extra energy into their muscles. Which does increase their power and speed, but when they do it too much, (USS2) their size makes them loose speed.

And about the electricity with Gohan after the Elder Kai's unlock ability, hasn't what you said been the case for most every transformation? Here's something that I just noticed that throws a lot about the electrical effect into question: Gohan didn't generate electricity as a Super Saiyan 2 against Cell the whole time. Mainly just in the beginning. Goku fighting Kid Buu as a Super Saiyan 3, how much static did he generate? None. For some majority of his fight with Fat Buu there wasn't any electricity. I've never seen Super Saiyan 4 generate any.

Also, the whole situational thing about Goten and Trunks going Super Saiyan at such a young age, it's just because they've been around Super Saiyans all their life, and have trained near them. Trunks trained with Vegeta when he would be a Super Saiyan, and it was not long before Trunks transformed. Then Trunks and Goten are always sparring, plus Goten sparred with Chi-Chi. I think the fact that they've been around Super Saiyan energies was the biggest cause of their transformation. Same goes for Gohan and his transformation at age 10. (Piccolo says 11 because it was a year later they came out of the HyperBolic Time Chamber.)

 

[SS2 Vegeto]

We all know what Super Saiya-jin is. Green eyes, golden, errect hair, slightly increased muscle mass, golden aura.

Super Saiya-jin Second Grade is characterized by a noticeably increased muscle mass, golden/yellow hair (lighter), still erect, an intense yellow aura.

Super Saiya-jin Third Grade is characterized by a hugely increased muscle mass, hulking physique, wild, spiked yellow hair, with an intense lightning fueled aura present.

Mastered Super Saiya-jin is characterized by a slightly increased muscle mass, as in the original form, green eyes, light yellow, erect hair, no aura present in natural state, intense flame fueled aura in charged up state.

Super Saiya-jin 2 is characterized by a burning lightning fueled aura and a more "errect" hairstyle than the original Super Saiya-jin stage, the hair being golden/yellow in colour, increased muscle mass from Super Saiya-jin state.

Super Saiya-jin 3 should be obvious. Hair is golden yellow, grown down to about knee length, the hair's "segments" being much larger and much more clearly defined, muscle mass increases greatly, although not to the extent of Super Saiya-jin 3rd Grade, eyebrows dissappear, jade green eyes with black pupils now visible (only in Goku's case is are the pupils visible), and an intense yellow glow around the body, lightning fueled aura as in the previous stage as well.

 

[TheGamer297]

It appears people are hardly reading my posts... You can't determine the differences between the levels of Super Saiyan with simple things like, "Brighter Aura", "Bigger Muscles" or "More Lightning Effects". All those things vary with the power level and energy out-put. If a Super Saiyan level one, had the power level of a Super Saiyan 2, and was generating as much energy, the only difference would be the slight change of their hair. Has anyone bothered reading and try to atleast half a$$ understand this instead of buzzing through and stating your objections without understanding what I'm saying? Because no one has yet made a direct argument.

 

[MC]

It appears people are hardly reading my posts... You can't determine the differences between the levels of Super Saiyan with simple things like, "Brighter Aura", "Bigger Muscles" or "More Lightning Effects". All those things vary with the power level and energy out-put. If a Super Saiyan level one, had the power level of a Super Saiyan 2, and was generating as much energy, the only difference would be the slight change of their hair. Has anyone bothered reading and try to atleast half a$$ understand this instead of buzzing through and stating your objections without understanding what I'm saying? Because no one has yet made a direct argument.

In the manga, whenever someone transforms into a SSJ2, their body's produce an electric field which remains constant whenever their aura is visible; the same applies to a SSJ3. SSJ2 and SSJ3 are the only forms of SSJ which generate an electric field on a constant basis as opposed to a few flickers here and there.

 

[Zeonix]

The electric field isn't constant. It might seem that way in the manga because pictures have a tendency to stay perfectly still, but in the anime there is always flickering.

 

[Skiwan]

It appears people are hardly reading my posts... You can't determine the differences between the levels of Super Saiyan with simple things like, "Brighter Aura", "Bigger Muscles" or "More Lightning Effects". All those things vary with the power level and energy out-put. If a Super Saiyan level one, had the power level of a Super Saiyan 2, and was generating as much energy, the only difference would be the slight change of their hair. Has anyone bothered reading and try to atleast half a$$ understand this instead of buzzing through and stating your objections without understanding what I'm saying? Because no one has yet made a direct argument.

You clearly haven't read the manga, and so are judging from the loop hole filled anime. The only non-ssj2 (or equivilent power) person that had lightning in the whole of dbz was nappa (in the manga). Mystic gohan had no lightning in the manga, every shot of anyone of ssj2 or higher (cell is an exception >_>) had lightning in the manga as long as their aura was on. In the anime it flickers, because lightning to be animated must appear and disapear asap to give the right effect, that being said, the anime uses such things as lightning and stuff to appear more dramatic, the manga uses its layout (composition) to create drama, toriyama's style was not trying appeal as being that flashy or amazing that you dont mind looking at one frame of a page for 1 minute at a time, thats why we could argue about this crap all day long because the inconsistencies in the anime are incredible.

My definitions for ssj forms

ssj1 -> golden spiky hair, slightly narrowed eyes, and slight muscle increase
ussj - ussj2, are ssj1, but just bulking up to varying degree's

ssj2 -> more spiky hair- more sharply drawn more fanned out, and less bangs at the front, even narrower eyes, muscle mass also increased, lightning in aura

ssj3 -> long spiky hair, less bangs again, ape like eyes, and lightning aura

ssj4 doesnt exist.

 

[TheGamer297]

Good lord... First off, [Insert my last post here]

You clearly haven't read the manga, and so are judging from the loop hole filled anime. The only non-ssj2 (or equivilent power) person that had lightning in the whole of dbz was nappa (in the manga). Mystic gohan had no lightning in the manga, every shot of anyone of ssj2 or higher (cell is an exception >_>) had lightning in the manga as long as their aura was on. In the anime it flickers, because lightning to be animated must appear and disapear asap to give the right effect, that being said, the anime uses such things as lightning and stuff to appear more dramatic, the manga uses its layout (composition) to create drama, toriyama's style was not trying appeal as being that flashy or amazing that you dont mind looking at one frame of a page for 1 minute at a time, thats why we could argue about this crap all day long because the inconsistencies in the anime are incredible.

For the freaking love of God, I'm not talking about the difference between the damn manga, or the damn anime. I'm simply saying that it's not the *FORMS* that cause them to produce the electrical flashes, it's the *POWERLEVEL*. If Vegeta were to go Super Saiyan, and had the Power Level of Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2, and Gohan had the Electrical Sparks, then Vegeta would have the same effect of electricity. Why? Because they are generating the same amount of POWER.

 

[Skiwan]

good lord, Insert some sense here:

The original creators intentions are not responsible for the inconsistencies you're basing your judgement on. Nappa sure as hell wasnt ssj2 powerlevel.

 

[MC]

For the freaking love of God, I'm not talking about the difference between the damn manga, or the damn anime. I'm simply saying that it's not the *FORMS* that cause them to produce the electrical flashes, it's the *POWERLEVEL*. If Vegeta were to go Super Saiyan, and had the Power Level of Gohan as a Super Saiyan 2, and Gohan had the Electrical Sparks, then Vegeta would have the same effect of electricity. Why? Because they are generating the same amount of POWER.

First off, Vegeta as a SSJ wouldn't be able to generate an electric field if he had an equal amount of energy as SSJ2 Gohan. The reason behind this is that the SSJ form doesn't generate an electric field. It has nothing to do with their power levels, the electric fields are generated as a characteristic of that form.

The electric field isn't constant. It might seem that way in the manga because pictures have a tendency to stay perfectly still, but in the anime there is always flickering.

By constant, I mean it doesn't vanish. In the show, the electric field would sometimes not show up, even though the person is a SSJ2 or SSJ3, while in the manga it is always shown.

 

[TheGamer297]

good lord, Insert some sense here:

The original creators intentions are not responsible for the inconsistencies you're basing your judgement on. Nappa sure as hell wasnt ssj2 powerlevel.

Yes, but neither was he in Super Saiyan 2 form. So why was he generating electricity? Your theory is that a Super Saiyan will not have the electrical effect, but a Super Saiyan 2 will because of its form. Nappa was a Super Saiyan 2? Wow I did not realize that. Now let's look at it this way, that what I stated was an example. Another thing is that after the Frieza Saga the series changed incredibly. Comparing past Sagas the the further ahead Sagas is worse than comparing the anime to the manga. There's just way to much of a difference. Comparing the first Sagas to the latest Sagas can't be done because it almost becomes a different show with how much everything changed. And frankly, I wouldn't even consider the different levels of Super Saiyan to be "forms". Cause all they are is just different levels of which they tap into their Saiyan powers and emit more energy, and the extreme energy flowing out spikes their hair and changes the color. The only REAL transformations are Frieza's, Cell's and Buu's forms. And yea of course Oozaru.

First off, Vegeta as a SSJ wouldn't be able to generate an electric field if he had an equal amount of energy as SSJ2 Gohan. The reason behind this is that the SSJ form doesn't generate an electric field. It has nothing to do with their power levels, the electric fields are generated as a characteristic of that form.

..... "If". "If If If If If If If". Who CARES if Vegeta Super Saiyan wouldn't generate the energy equal to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan? Did you not see the word "If"? Shall I put it in a few more times? How can something be a characteristic of a "form" that is just a higher emittance of power? The closest thing a Super Saiyan level gets to being a form is Super Saiyan 3. Unless you count Super Saiyan 4 as a complete real level of Super Saiyan.....